Ask an idiot

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03.04.2019 06:58PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

Yet you say you believe in the mind and the universe. That means you believe in the reality of mind and universe.

And you agreed that the universe is "the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated".

If you believe that there is objective reality, and that this reality can be discovered through subjective observation and postulation, that means that there is some reality to your subjective observation.

You are truly having an experience. Your experience, even if illusion, is still a reality. The reality of your experience.

So what I am asking you, to clarify since you claim there is one reality....

Are you denying the reality of your subjective experience or are you saying that you experience reality as it truly is?

If you are denying that your subjective experience is a reality, how do you explain it existing?

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03.04.2019 06:59PM

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@keithprosser

Maybe you don't really know what any of that means.

And by maybe, I mean you don't.

But you believe in ultimate reality, so you believe in God.

And really, that is what you should be receiving right now.

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03.04.2019 07:03PM

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@Mopac

You must have a very flexible notion of what a god is!

I can't get why you can't see that what I believe in is not even a god, certainly not 'God'!

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#64

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03.04.2019 07:07PM

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@Mopac

Yet you say you believe in the mind and the universe. That means you believe in the reality of mind and universe.

And you agreed that the universe is "the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated".

So far so good.

If you believe that there is objective reality, and that this reality can be discovered through subjective observation and postulation, that means that there is some reality to your subjective observation.

Mostly correct. There are processes that can be used to identify innaccurate perceptions and mitigate their impact on our understanding of reality. That is something we could talk about for hours but I doubt you care about any of that.

You are truly having an experience. Your experience, even if illusion, is still a reality. The reality of your experience.

So what I am asking you, to clarify since you claim there is one reality....

Are you denying the reality of your subjective experience or are you saying that you experience reality as it truly is?

If you are denying that your subjective experience is a reality, how do you explain it existing?

Talking frogs aren't real. If I see a hallucination of a talking frog it is not real, it is a hallucination. I may think it is real but I would be wrong.

That really is just semantics and word-play though, isn't it? Let's talk instead about this God that you claim I believe in. Is it capable of thought or emotion?

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03.04.2019 07:10PM

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@keithprosser

Because you are theologically ignorant.

And don't take that as an insult. It is the truth, but it is understandable because you don't feel you have any good reason to take it seriously.

So really, you don't know what a god is, and you don't know what God is. You are, after all, an atheist, and have likely been educated in such a way as to make what I am saying unintelligible. Yet, I do nothing but speak plainly.

If you could take a step and believe me though, I think it would be hard to deny that I am not making any claims that are truly extraordinary. I am speaking the evident truth that anyone could see.

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03.04.2019 07:11PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

The God I believe is The Ultimate Reality, and if you deny The Ultimate Reality you have nothing to stand on.

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03.04.2019 07:12PM

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@Mopac

The God I believe is The Ultimate Reality, and if you deny The Ultimate Reality you have nothing to stand on.

Let's talk about this God that you claim I believe in. Is it capable of thought or emotion?

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03.04.2019 07:14PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

The Ultimate Reality is whatever The Ultimate Reality is.

What anyone believes about it is irrelevant, because The Ultimate Reality is not a conception.

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03.04.2019 07:18PM

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@Mopac

So conceptions aren't reality after all? Interesting.

I don't think the universe is capable of thought or emotion though. Would you call that God?

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03.04.2019 07:33PM

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@Mopac

Because you are theologically ignorant.
And don't take that as an insult. It is the truth, but it is understandable because you don't feel you have any good reason to take it seriously.
So really, you don't know what a god is, and you don't know what God is.

I will concede I wouldn't get a DD from a seminary! But I do know what I have in mind when I think of the 'ultimate reality' I believe in! and it doen't have the qualities of a god. If what I believe in is a god then there are no atheists.

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03.04.2019 07:47PM

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@keithprosser

As I said, God is not a conception. You think God is a conception.

The Ultimate Reality is God, which you admit exists.

And yeah, I don't really believe in atheists either. That is why my position has always been that people who call themselves atheists have no idea what an atheist really is. A true blue real deal atheist is a nihilist.

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03.04.2019 07:49PM

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@Mopac

Well if you're allowed to use words in your own way anything is possible - except proper comunication.

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03.04.2019 07:51PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

A conception is not God.

Do you believe the ultimate reality exists? That is God.

You have a conception of God that has thoughts and emotions. As I said, God is The Ultimate Reality. Whatever that is, that is God. It surely isn't like anything you can think of.

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03.04.2019 07:51PM

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@keithprosser

Atheism is contingent on bad language.

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03.04.2019 08:04PM

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@Mopac

You have a conception of God that has thoughts and emotions.

Not really. I don't think the universe has any thoughts or emotions at all. My question is whether you would call that God. Would you?

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03.04.2019 08:13PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

I wouldn't call the universe God at all, because the universe does not exist apart from The Ultimate Reality.

If God thinks, his thoughts are certainly not like our thoughts. I would say the same with emotions.

Yet none of these things are relevent. You don't believe that the ultimate reality has thoughts or emotions? You still believe the ultimate reality exists, and so you still believe in God.

Do you believe that the universe is the ultimate reality?

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03.04.2019 08:24PM

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@Mopac

You still believe the ultimate reality exists

Citation needed.

Do you believe that the universe is the ultimate reality?

As has been previously noted 'ultimate reality' is a term that nobody here unironically uses except for you. If anyone knows the answer to whether the ultimate reality encompasses everything that could possibly be observed or thought about it would be you.

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03.04.2019 08:27PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

You have said multiple times on the last page that you believe in one reality.

If there is only one reality, it would have to be the ultimate reality.

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#79

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03.04.2019 08:31PM

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@Mopac

You have said multiple times on the last page that you believe in one reality.

Yes I have. That is one of many things we seem to disagree on.

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03.04.2019 10:44PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

Not really.

The Ultimate Reality is reality in the truest sense.

When it comes down to it, nothing else is truly real.

So I truly believe in one reality. The Ultimate Reality.

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BrutalTruth

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BrutalTruth

03.04.2019 10:55PM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

So have you gathered yet that he is a master at twisting words and dodging questions, and that he'll never give a straight answer if that answer would be detrimental to his argument? This is why I said I have no interest in riding that merry-go-round again. Debate with this person is utterly pointless. He doesn't accept the fact that he needs to prove that reality is god, and that no one else agrees with him on that, and nothing you ever say or do will ever change his mind. He is truly the cleanest, purest example of cognitive dissonance I've ever encountered. Why do you waste your time when there are other theists out there who are sane enough to have an actual debate with?

Do you know what he said we he lost the debate he had with me? "It doesn't matter if everyone says I lost. I know I'm right." He's a waste of time dude. A truly lost cause.

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03.04.2019 11:02PM

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@Mopac

You have a conception of God that has thoughts and emotions. As I said, God is The Ultimate Reality. Whatever that is, that is God. It surely isn't like anything you can think of.

If you believe in a god that has no thoughts or emotions then its not me believing in God it's you not believing in God.

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#83

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03.04.2019 11:17PM

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@BrutalTruth

So have you gathered yet that he is a master at twisting words and dodging questions, and that he'll never give a straight answer if that answer would be detrimental to his argument?

Yes.

Why do you waste your time when there are other theists out there who are sane enough to have an actual debate with?

I tried to engage with EV and TS in another thread and both brushed me off. It made me feel sad and unloved.

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@Mopac

So I truly believe in one reality. The Ultimate Reality.

And you also believe many other things about reality such as its ability to hear and understand prayer, feel emotion, that it has a plan for how it wants the universe to be, etc.

If you didn't though... would you still call it God?

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03.05.2019 12:49AM

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@Discipulus_Didicit

Of course.

And I would like to express my sincere belief that these things that both you and others mock are things that you don't really understand.

What is important here to understand is that The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God.

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03.05.2019 12:51AM

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03.05.2019 12:51AM

BT blocked me, but he still unblocks me to respond to my posts, and he likes to talk about me to others in front of me.

I think that speaks volumes about where he is coming from.

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@Discipulus_Didicit

I tried to engage with EV and TS in another thread and both brushed me off. It made me feel sad and unloved.

Ha I'll check out your response and get to it (hopefully it will be worth it), pardon the time lapses I am not brushing you off (yet) I can't spend all day everyday on here like others. But yes, you're loved...! the deeper you guys engage with me in spiritual/religious topics and are willing to be openminded I'll have more motivation.

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@Mopac

and he likes to talk about me to others in front of me.

Perhaps he got that tactic from you.

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03.05.2019 01:02AM

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@keithprosser

For some reason, the issue of using the medium of creation to describe the uncreated is still lost on all you who even after all this time condemn yourselves by rejecting God.

I am here because I love you all, and if this wasn't the case, I would not subject myself to this exercise in masochism.

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