states with stricter gun control have fewer mass shootings

Author: n8nrgmi ,

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  • n8nrgmi
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    n8nrgmi

    states with stricter gun control have fewer mass shootings

    an overview of some issues of gun control and policy

  • n8nrgmi
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    *an overview of some issues of gun control science and policy
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    NICS check rejections and reasons for 
    about 1.6 MILLION who can't purchase legally have tried to do so, how many of those have been arrested?  maybe we should enforce laws that already exists?


    the term "mass" shooting is made up and numbers are changed to fit whatever narrative, why wouldn't total number of people killed in a year, weekend, whatever be the most important stat?  If a state has the lowest "mass murder" rate but 10x more people are killed per year than any other state, which stat is more important?


    how do any of these stats correlate with mental health, drug abuse, drug sales, gangs etc?


    Conclusion
    Once one accounts for the average pre-existing differences in homicide and suicide rates across states and the average annual changes in those deaths from year-to-year, stricter gun laws are associated with more total deaths from homicides and suicides.  increasing the index of the gun laws in a state by 20 percentage points (about one standard deviation) is associated with an increase in the total death rate (homicides plus suicides) of 0.4 per 100,000 people.



  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    the last link you post makes the argument that gun control works, so me thinks you didn't read it very well. and that more guns in an area equals more murder. 

    i notice that you cite john lott's crime website. this guy has a poor reputation, and it debunked by the overwhelming number of other studies in the second link in the opening post. it's not just one stat v another, it's a bunch v a handful. police shootings, police shooting people, women's death, homicides, suicides, mass shootings etc etc all increase when there are more guns around. 
    i would challenge you to find scientific evidence beyond lott, and the two or three other 'studies' that always get pushed around but that are easily debunked. if your science is so true, it should be easy for you to do, but ive been studying this issue for years, and the science just isnt out there to say guns aren't a problem in the country and such. 

  • Mopac
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    Good luck confiscating the guns

    Source: lives in Texas

  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    actually it says no such thing, because I did read it, I'll try to break it down for you.

    "What role do gun control laws play in these statistics? It’s difficult to say. One news report that compiled these same CDC numbers on firearm death rates, by 24/7 Wall Street and published by USA Today, listed several reasons besides gun laws that these states might have high rates of gun deaths (suicides included). Many of the states also have higher rates of poverty, lower educational attainment and perhaps more rural areas that make getting to a hospital in time to save someone’s life difficult.

    correlation, not a causation. And the homicide rate statistics don’t show the same pattern. Eight of the 10 states with the highest homicide rates and eight of the 10 states with the lowest homicide rates all got “D” or “F” grades from the Brady Campaign analysis.

    We have written before about gun control issues, and the inability to determine causation between gun laws and gun violence. As Susan B. Sorenson, a professor of social policy at the University of Pennsylvania, told us in 2012, “We really don’t have answers to a lot of the questions that we should have answers to.” And that’s partly because a scientific random study — in which one group of people had guns or permissive gun laws, and another group didn’t — isn’t possible.

    An August 2013 CDC report looked at rates for gun homicides in the 50 most populous metropolitan areas. It found that for 2009-2010, the top gun murder rate areas were, in order: New Orleans, Memphis, Detroit, Birmingham, St. Louis, Baltimore, Jacksonville, Kansas City, Philadelphia and Chicago.
    Six of those cities are in states with poor scores for their gun laws, while the other four get a “C” or better. Chicago, which placed last in the top 10, had a ban on handguns at the time. There’s no discernible pattern among those cities, nor clear or convincing evidence in these statistics that shows more gun laws lead to more or less gun crime."

    now you want to backtrack as to which one of us didn't read it?

    Do you care about actual number of deaths or just percentages?  Because it matters imo.

  • dustryder
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    Don't you guys have open state borders which would in part negate the efficacy of state gun control laws?

  • Alec
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    --> @dustryder
    If you live in Texas and you want to go to New York, and you have an AK 47, you have to leave our gun at home to legally do so.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @dustryder
    Don't you guys have open state borders which would in part negate the efficacy of state gun control laws?
    not really because responsible gun owners obey laws, those that don't we call criminals.  But more to your point, yes pretty much any law can be circumvented and often are......by criminals.

  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    i think the main point you're making is that correlation doesn't prove causation. but it does strongly point to it. and the correlation is in my favor, not yours.

    and what if you take all the gun stats in the weebly link? taken together, they show that having guns around causes murder when it wouldn't otherwise occur. you'd have to stick your head in the sand to think otherwise. 

    you have to cite junk science to prove your points. 


  • Greyparrot
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    What is really sad is if you include killings of 3 people or more as mass shootings, you discover a host of mass shootings done by gang members in socialist liberal dystopias like chicago, LA, New York and detroit. All of which have draconian gun laws.

    Many of the killings are done at or near so called gun free school zones....


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    --> @dustryder
    It's easier to get a gun illegally than to drive across state lines and wait a week.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    you are making the claim that more laws reduce murder, you have proven nothing, because it can't be proven, I don't have to prove anything, the burden is yours.

    which laws stop massing shootings?
  • Mopac
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    Guns are like cigarette lighters or pens here in Texas. People are pretty polite here.


  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Mopac
    that's good to hear, that's how it should be.  I've tracked prices for a while, since before the greatest gun sales man was elected.  Now under Trump who isn't threatening more laws etc the prices are way down, especially with ammo.  Why?  because no one is buying.  For example 22 ammo is now 0.03 cents per round.  During Obama it was .10 cents or more IF you could even find any to purchase.  Yet they have learned from the past.  It will happen again once Democrats really push for more useless laws.
  • disgusted
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    The rest of the world hopes you insane people eventually wipe all of you out soon.
  • SupaDudz
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    When a school shooter has a gun trying to shoot up the school, I wan't the bodyguard to be armed with them to shoot
  • Alec
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    --> @dustryder @SupaDudz
    How would you guys think about the following compromise on guns:

    -AK 47s banned nationwide.
    -Teachers are allowed to arm themselves with any legal gun to defend their classroom.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @Alec
    Teachers being armed is risky, but I would be ehh with it. Pyscho teachers can shoot students or threaten them with it. This is only for schools in ghetto
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @SupaDudz
    Non lethal bullets and or pepper spray guns should have been a thing long ago, why do you think it wasn't?  I think there's one school in Texas that has had them, just one. 
    Extensive training would be required regardless.  If you are worried about psyco teachers then that's a whole problem of it self. 

  • dustryder
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    --> @Alec
    AK-47's should already be banned for civilians. It's complete overkill in terms of conventional uses such as hunting, target shooting and self-defence. 

    Given guns are the root of the problem, I fail to see how bringing more guns into a situation is going to sufficiently solve the problem without creating its own problems.

  • Alec
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    --> @SupaDudz @TheDredPriateRoberts
    All of the teachers know better then to shoot the students.  Otherwise, teachers committing shootings would be common in places like Israel where teachers can be armed.

  • SupaDudz
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    --> @Alec
    With the failing of mental health screenings in this country and the pedos, I would be convinced that something along those lines would happen.

    Plus, I have known teachers in MY SCHOOL who have done perverted things to get a student attention. This is a mental disease, and if the students reports them, that teacher can shoot.

    The only armed people in a school should be bodyguards



  • Alec
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    --> @dustryder
    AK 47s provide protection against multiple people easier then a pistol.  Robbers have huge incentive to rob a house in packs.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    I think pepper spray would be A OK. I would even allow a teacher to carry a knife or even a shuriken. Those can cripple a shooter in enough time that he would either die or be disarmed.