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Author: Yassine ,

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  • Yassine
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    Hello everyone,

    - Anyone wishes to debate on the topic of Islam? Anything that relates to Islam, in religion, or scripture, or law, or theology, or spirituality, or tradition, or history...etc. If you do not wish to debate the subject, you are welcome to discuss it in this thread. All questions or objections are welcome.
  • disgusted
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    --> @Yassine
    Why didn't your god know that Muhammad was illiterate?
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Yassine
    An AMA thread would be more suitable than a debate.
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Yassine
    Will you be eternal in paradise according to Islam? 
  • Stephen
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    --> @Yassine
     Anyone wishes to debate on the topic of Islam? 


    John III Sobieski. After his victories over the Muslim Turkish Empire-  aka the Muslim Ottoman empire the muslims called him the "Lion of Lechistan"; and the Pope hailed him as the savior of Christendom. 

    Did Sobieski deserve  both these titles and why had Allah failed his adherents in not rewarding the muslims victory at this time and not it seems, any other time before this conquering Turkish muslim hoard had taken swaths of Europe, the Holy Lands and and large parts of the Indian continent? 
  • Yassine
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    --> @disgusted
    Why didn't your god know that Muhammad was illiterate?
    - God is omniscient. Your point?
  • Yassine
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    --> @keithprosser
    An AMA thread would be more suitable than a debate
    - So, do you have a question?
  • Yassine
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    --> @Outplayz
    Will you be eternal in paradise according to Islam
    - Yes, though eternal =/= everlasting. 

  • keithprosser
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    --> @Yassine
    ok, given notorious verses such as 2:191
    "And kill them wherever you overtake them"
    and 5:51
    "Do not take the Jews and the Christians friends"

    Shouldn't you be out there killing Christians rather than being friendly with them?

  • Yassine
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    --> @Stephen
    John III Sobieski. After his victories over the Muslim Turkish Empire-  aka the Muslim Ottoman empire the muslims called him the "Lion of Lechistan"; and the Pope hailed him as the savior of Christendom.
    - He wasn't very liked in Europe then, but they did honor him after.


    Did Sobieski deserve both these titles
    - "Lion of ..." is a nickname given to brave warrior commanders, so he must've deserved it indeed.


    and why had Allah failed his adherents in not rewarding the muslims victory at this time and not it seems, any other time before this conquering Turkish muslim hoard had taken swaths of Europe, the Holy Lands and and large parts of the Indian continent? 
    - Allah is God in Arabic, whom Muslims Jewish Arabs & Christian Arabs worship. If you're asking why God didn't give victory to the Muslims when they are in the right, then this equally extends to all other groups, for all of them may taste victory as they taste defeat -as Christians in Europe were not given victory over Muslims in countless occasions. In Islam, we don't believe victory is a sign of divine favor -unless in the cause of Allah ; especially since in this case (the Battle of Vienna) the Muslims did not deserve it -a traitorous commander does not deserve victory. The Ottomans conquered the eastern part of Europe, they did not rule the Indian subcontinent!
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Yassine
    - Yes, though eternal =/= everlasting. 
    Hmm, i'm a bit confused how the two don't correlate. Let me make the question more specific then: When / if i get the paradise, will i ever die again? 

    Let me define die a little: Death would mean taking you out of that reality. So dying in paradise would mean you are not in paradise anymore. It doesn't however mean that by you dying you didn't go somewhere else. So, the main point in my question above is can you leave paradise. 
  • Yassine
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    --> @keithprosser
    ok, given notorious verses such as 2:191
    "And kill them wherever you overtake them" 
    and 5:51
    "Do not take the Jews and the Christians friends"

    Shouldn't you be out there killing Christians rather than being friendly with them?
    - Who says I'm not already doing that... LOL! Seriously, I know.  It's getting really old though. It's just baffling to me how they can quote that verse & say it incites violence against [insert whomever] with a straight face, as if they don't know that self defense is!! Of course, by conveniently omitting the whole context & the inconvenient bits, like when you read a classified document with all the blackouts... They see "kill them wherever you overtake them"... & not "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you"..."but do not transgress'..."Allah does not like transgressors"..."... they have expelled you* ..."And do not fight them at the Holy Mosque until they fight you there"...'if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors"...etc.

    - As for the second verse, it's another interesting twist. The Salafis LOVE that, of course when it suits them. Thank God they aren't big on that mantra since Trump, now they are buddy-buddies. The classical schools, however, agree that befriending or loving non-Muslims is only prohibited in matters of religion, as the verses specify. That is, to befriend them or love them for their religion or to support their religion or support them against Muslims: "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from acting kindly and justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers". (60:8-9), Obviously a Muslim can not support a non-Muslim to transgress against other Muslims, that's treason. The Prophet (pbuh) had a lot of non-Muslim friends whom he loved, particularly his uncle, his son-in-law, his Jewish neighbor... & a lot of allies among them too, the Christian Abyssinians, the Copts of Egypt, most Jewish tribes of Medina (except the three that betrayed him).,,etc! The whole notion is patently absurd.

  • Yassine
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    --> @Outplayz
    Hmm, i'm a bit confused how the two don't correlate.
    - 'Eternal' implies time, thus contingent on time. 'Everlasting' is not contingent on time.


    Let me make the question more specific then: When / if i get the paradise, will i ever die again?
    - No, hence eternal. Though time is an interesting thing to belong to.


    Let me define die a little: Death would mean taking you out of that reality. So dying in paradise would mean you are not in paradise anymore. It doesn't however mean that by you dying you didn't go somewhere else. So, the main point in my question above is can you leave paradise. 

    - You can leave if summoned by angels or by God. The essential idea of Paradise in Islam relates to Man's two unattainable temptations, eternal life & perpetual dominion. Paradise is described in the Hadith as an inconceivable & unimaginable world where life is eternal (no one dies) & dominion is perpetual (nothing decays), & where residents are awarded their own kingdoms each in accordance to their deeds -the least of whom gets a world ten times equivalent to the earthly kingdom, within which all their desires & wishes come true.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Yassine
    This Islamic scholar disagrees....

  • Yassine
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    --> @keithprosser
    This Islamic scholar disagrees....

    - I feel bamboozled...
  • disgusted
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    --> @Yassine
    Then why didn't your god know that Muhammad was illiterate?
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Yassine
    within which all their desires & wishes come true.
    There is a thing about me, i think being eternal and/or everlasting in one place would be hell. It's mental torment vs. physical hell. But it sounds like to me i can leave to some level, but that's still not clear. I wouldn't want to leave as an angel to just end up on earth... it's a reality like earth that i find to be hell... "IF" i was eternal here. It's a C rate movie as a finite being and i can put up with it bc there is death at the end of the tunnel. So, in the sense of an angel thing, i'd find that to be mental torment as well. 

    Now you bring up this last point which maybe can fix it all. If that is what happens, i get my desires & wishes, let me anthropomorphize some of what i would consider to be paradise. Now, these can be different and not exactly how creative humans created them to be. I would consider living in a reality where vampires are real, and not only real, i am one of them to be paradise. To explore that reality for a couple thousand years then die. Dying is key in all of these since i won't get the others without it. So then, i would consider another paradise to be something like me 'the joker' ruling the world and giving the hero's an everyday test with someone like Harley Quinn by my side laughing under a dark sky and red moon. Since i'm a good person, i would allow being insane for this role. I would also think a world like Harry Potter would be interesting. Where magic is real and we have an epic battle with the dark lords. 

    In all seriousness, those are what i consider to be paradise. As you can see, someone like me that see's these paradises... being stuck in one reality, even if i am being fed heroin through the air and i have women as far as my eye can see, being stuck in this one reality would honestly and i'm not joking, be my hell. 

    So, when you say all of my desires and wishes... now you know what they are. If i become and live as a Muslim; will i get my paradise as i've described? 
  • disgusted
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    --> @Outplayz
    It's a C rate movie as a finite being and i can put up with it bc there is death at the end of the tunnel.
    But you don't believe in death.

  • Stephen
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    --> @Yassine
    If you're asking why God didn't give victory to the Muslims when they are in the right,

    No I am NOT asking that. And I didn't ask that you snidey fkr did I. Nowhere do I say " when they were in the right"

    This is exactly what I ask you:

    Post 5 above

    why had Allah failed his adherents in not rewarding the muslims victory at this time and not it seems, any other time before this conquering Turkish muslim hoard had taken swaths of Europe, the Holy Lands and and large parts of the Indian continent? 

    So stop editing my words to assist your answers.


    then this equally extends to all other groups,

    I didn't ask about "other groups" I asked SPECIFICALLY about Muslims. As you well know.  So stop trying to conflate with muslims "other groups". 




    for all of them may taste victory as they taste defeat -as Christians in Europe were not given victory over Muslims in countless occasions.

    Yes yes we know know all about European invasions of muslims and the forced conversions of the peoples of these lands by the sword. I have already covered that above. 


    In Islam, we don't believe victory is a sign of divine favor -unless in the cause of Allah ;

    The Ottoman Empire  was a muslim Empire wasn't it? Are you saying this devastating decisive defeat was not Allah's will? And that Alla had caused the defeat these murdering Muslim invaders? 


    The Ottomans conquered the eastern part of Europe,
     And also deep into the Caucuses, north into France and South East  Germany. Lets get it right.


    they did not rule the Indian subcontinent!

    The Muslim Ottomans invaded deep into the Indian subcontinent too and you know it . Stop lying.

    So even with your interpretation,and for all your editing and conflation of my question of what I asked you, you have still failed to tell me why this decisive victory went to the Polish king and not the adherent faithful muslims of Allah.
  • Stephen
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    --> @keithprosser




    --> @keithprosser
    ok, given notorious verses such as 2:191
    "And kill them wherever you overtake them" 
    and 5:51
    "Do not take the Jews and the Christians friends"

    Shouldn't you be out there killing Christians rather than being friendly with them? 
    - Who says I'm not already doing that... LOL! Seriously, I know.  It's getting really old though. It's just baffling to me how they can quote that verse & say it incites violence against [insert whomever] with a straight face, as if they don't know that self defense is!! Of course, by conveniently omitting the whole context & the inconvenient bits, like when you read a classified document with all the blackouts... They see "kill them wherever you overtake them"... & not "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you"..."but do not transgress'..."Allah does not like transgressors"..."... they have expelled you* ..."And do not fight them at the Holy Mosque until they fight you there"...'if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors"...etc.

    - As for the second verse, it's another interesting twist. The Salafis LOVE that, of course when it suits them. Thank God they aren't big on that mantra since Trump, now they are buddy-buddies. The classical schools, however, agree that befriending or loving non-Muslims is only prohibited in matters of religion, as the verses specify. That is, to befriend them or love them for their religion or to support their religion or support them against Muslims: "Allah does not forbid youfrom those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from acting kindly and justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers". (60:8-9), Obviously a Muslim can not support a non-Muslim to transgress against other Muslims, that's treason. The Prophet (pbuh) had a lot of non-Muslim friends whom he loved, particularly his uncle, his son-in-law, his Jewish neighbor... & a lot of allies among them too, the Christian Abyssinians, the Copts of Egypt, most Jewish tribes of Medina (except the three that betrayed him).,,etc! The whole notion is patently absurd.

    I can't wait to watch prosser (challenge) pick holes  in this absolute bullshit. But he won't. he's far too much of a fkn apologist. I wouldn't be surprised if he is tag teaming with his mate "yass". Away you go prosser, the floor is yours....... & yass'.

  • keithprosser
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    --> @Yassine
    Would you say conservative interpretations of islam have gained in influence over the last few decades? 
  • Stephen
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    --> @keithprosser

    This Islamic scholar disagrees....


     “He was a warlord barbarian, yet to Muslims he is the perfect example of a moral man.”  from the book Mohammed's Koran: Why Muslims Kill for Islam

    He got that right and that is something I have been saying since I started researching this barbaric ideology since 9/11.<< this Muslim terrorist atrocity is what caused me to research Islam. And   going by the comments below this video that you so kindly posted keithprosser, it  just has to be worth the read then. Thank you, Keith.

     Have you read  Mohammed's Koran: Why Muslims Kill for Islam, yourself, Keith?

    I noticed this  best selling book - Mohammed's Koran: Why Muslims Kill for Islam - is co authored by Peter McLoughlin. This is the same author who wrote about Muslim Rape gangs, in his book,
    Easy Meat: Inside Britain's Grooming Gang Scandal

    The author Peter McLoughlin,  has often spoken about how he sat on this Muslim rape gang story for 2 YEARS!!!! for fear of upsetting his left wing libtard friends.

     
    Peter McLoughlin  said that he chose this title after the ex Home Secretary Jack Straw was brave enough to admit that, “White female children are seen as 'easy meat' by muslim Pakistani Rapists”.
     
    Robinson obviously knew what he was talking about when he stated in 2017 that this book, co authored with journalist Peter McLoughlin would be banned. Though it is available here http://www.mohammeds-koran.com/store and here https://www.waterstones.com/book/mohammeds-koran/peter-mcloughlin/tommy-robinson/9780995584907
     
    Amazon bans book co-written by Tommy Robinsonfrom their website


     
     
     

  • Outplayz
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    --> @disgusted
    But you don't believe in death.
    I believe i die from this reality/world. Can i come back eons later, maybe. But, coming back or changing the scenery doesn't matter. I believe i will die and get the hell out of here... either that death will be another reality hopefully nothing like this one, or death is just the end of everything... both would be preferable to any "paradise" i can never die.

  • Paul
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    --> @Yassine
    What can you tell me about Islam during the period of 800 AD to 1100 AD?
  • disgusted
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    --> @Outplayz
    I believe i die from this reality/world.
    Like I said

    You don't believe in death.