punishment for abortion shouldn't be the same as murder early in the pregnancy

Author: n8nrgmi ,

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  • n8nrgmi
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    n8nrgmi

    who would send a mom and doctor to life in prison, or executed, or decade in prison, for aborting their one month baby? im looking to debate you. 

    i'm for outlawing all abortion except for rape, incest and sever fetal abnormality.  but i wouldn't punish women in early pregnancy. i would at the very least define personhood at the stage of fetal pain, half way through the pregnancy. if you have to use pain killers on a baby to abort it, that should tell you how shady the humanity is of what you are doing. i may be up for legislating based on brain waves if they are developed enough, the idea being life ends with the heart and brain, so it could begin there too. i dont know a lot about brain wave science, though. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Alec
    arent you the one that said you favor the death penalty for murder? you also seem pretty conservative, so would you execute a woman for aborting her one month baby in pregnancy? why or why not? 
  • n8nrgmi
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    i understand there are pro choicers who would take the opposite arguments in a way i'm not interested in going, but if you really want to chime in, have at it. a woman must take responsibility for her actions, at least later in the pregnancy when she's had plenty of time to abort and not be punished. personhood might be debateable, but at a certain point it's not any more. to pretend the baby isn't a person till birth is just stupid, and inhumane, and very immoral. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    good article on brain development, and a bunch of ethical concerns 
  • Mopac
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    A good way to avoid these issues is to only have sex if you don't mind getting pregnant. Be married? 


    Post "sexual liberation" culture is really stupid and immoral.




  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    Well done Mop, nobody got pregnant before 1966, you fucking genius.
  • disgusted
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    Who's rights are you willing to abuse?
  • Greyparrot
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    Who cares? The law isn't meant to be enforced, it's only a tool to get people like you to bring a case to the SCOTUS so they have a means to eliminate Roe V Wade. The SCOTUS can't remove it until some idiot liberal brings the case before them.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    I think you mean a one month old embryo. Babies are born humans. 
  • Alec
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    I used to be pro choice, like yesterday, but now I'm pro life because I changed my mind.  To address your arguments:

     i would at the very least define personhood at the stage of fetal pain, half way through the pregnancy.
    So, your pro choice at 20 weeks?  This is the liberal position.

    you also seem pretty conservative, so would you execute a woman for aborting her one month baby in pregnancy? why or why not? 
    Once abortion becomes illegal, any woman that has an abortion should be put to death.  This is because of ideological consistency.  If you believe in the death penalty for murder and you believe abortion is murder, then you gotta do what you gotta do.  If you want abortion to be illegal, there has to be a punishment.  If you believe that it is murder, then you ought to treat it just like murder.  If this is the death penalty, then so be it.

  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    At some point the baby will have to be delivered because of size either naturally or c-section, when a baby is that large can you explain why it should be killed rather than born and if it survives given up for adoption, because it's coming out one of those 2 ways, given that fact delivering it alive solves the problem of making the woman not pregnant anymore right?  so in these instances the choices are, give birth to a live baby, kill it in utero and give birth to a dead baby, there's no escaping those facts, since the desire (feelings) is the woman doesn't want to be pregnant there is no need to kill the baby, just induced or whatever manner is used to make her not pregnant which fulfills her desires.  then there's the whole partial birth abortions which do happen.
    How about the babies who are delivered alive because the procedure they used to kill the baby didn't work?  she delivered, she's not pregnant anymore, still kill the baby?

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    Until a fetus is born it's not a person. It does not have more rights than the mother. Once born it's a human being with rights equal to other humans. Partial birth abortions are not the standard or done regularly. These bills are reducing "good" times to have abortion to nothing. Please keep on track and not use emotion or lies to further your agenda. 
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    you didn't answer the question in the scenario
    the baby is coming out vaginally or c-section because the woman doesn't want to be pregnant and the size of the baby.

    if the baby is born alive = woman not pregnant
    if the baby is killed and born dead = woman not pregnant

    both = woman not pregnant, she gets what she wants

    now, since in both examples the woman gets what she wants, why does killing the baby have to be part of that equation to give her what she wants, to not be pregnant anymore.




  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    Why don't you keep living cancer cells in your body cause I think pro lifers should keep their cancer and get back to me. 

  • Alec
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Science has confirmed that the cells specialize at 5 weeks.  They cease to be cancer at this point.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Why don't you keep living cancer cells in your body cause I think pro lifers should keep their cancer and get back to me. 
    cancer cells do not have unique dna as a child/individual does, they are a cell mutation which isn't the same as a baby generally, anyway I don't care to take the time and explain biology to you, it's painfully obvious why you choose not to answer such a simple question, assuming you understood it that is, though I don't think I could make it any simpler, so sorry for that.
    seriously though lol,  it was a loaded question so depending on how you answer it you are either a monster or hypocrite if you take the position of being pro death.  I really didn't expect you to answer it :)
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Alec
    As long as the suck the life from the mother they are cancer. 
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    Yes I am pro death. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Alec
    you do realize that a very small percent of people support the idea of executing mothers for early term abortion. i realize that popular opinioni doesn't indicate truth necessarily, but what humans think is evidence of the humanity of the situation. 

    what do you think about second degree murder? i assume you don't want people executed for murders that were spontaneous in passion? if you do want them executed, why does someone who premedicates and reflects on murder punished the same as someone who acted spontaneously? also, don't you think second degree murder would be more akin to abortions than premeditated murder, given there are a lot of passions involved?

    i dont think my position is liberal. it is moderate. i cut off abortion at eighteen weeks, the mid way point of pregnancy where some say pain is felt. i also would technically outlaw almost all abortion, just not enforce it for early ones. and id stress that personhood cannot be defined as not there later in pregnancy, as the supreme court allows states to do now. having a third trimester abortion because you feel inconvinienced or your state allows mental health exceptions, shouldn't happen. 
  • Alec
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    Cancer is cells that don't specialize.  Otherwise, a newborn baby would be cancer.

  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @Alec
    For a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant they are. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Alec
    if you were in a burning building and you knew five viable test tube babies were at one end of the building, and a little six year old girl was at the other end, and you could only save the tubes or the girl..... which would you save and why? 
  • Alec
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    what do you think about second degree murder?
    What's the difference between 1st degree and 2nd degree murder?

    i dont think my position is liberal. it is moderate. i cut off abortion at eighteen weeks, the mid way point of pregnancy where some say pain is felt. i also would technically outlaw almost all abortion
    This statement is contradictory since most abortions happen within the 1st 20 weeks.

    having a third trimester abortion because you feel inconvinienced or your state allows mental health exceptions, shouldn't happen. 
    What do you think the punishment should be for 3rd trimester abortions?  I think it should be the death penalty that's as painful as the method used to kill the baby because it's murder.
  • Polytheist-Witch
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    They don't care about women. The drs and women are punished and the man still gets off scott free. 
  • Alec
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    --> @Polytheist-Witch
    They are not cancer after 6 weeks whether or not you think they are since their cells specialize.