Ask me anything: Judaism

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@keithprosser

The word "Jewish" isn't the place to start. We'll get there. Maybe...

We start with the (Orthodox) definition of "what is a Jew" -- a Jew is someone who has a Jewish mother or was subject to an approved conversion process.

The fact that there are these 2 methods indicates that the state of being a Jew is both genetic and not genetic(one can't convert into a gene pool). But AFTER conversion by a woman, the religion becomes genetic and is passed to her children. The term "ethnicity" is sociologically problematic.

Most Orthodox communities accept converts (some Syrian communities don't) but the process takes a long time. Because there is no pressing need for anyone to become Jewish, as non-Jews can get that heavenly reward for abiding by just those 7 laws, no one is encouraged to convert.

As to the word "Jewish" -- if it just means "being a Jew" then it has a strict correlation to the requirements listed above, but if it is a cultural signifier, it often is applied to things beyond the simple definition. So depending on how it is used, Jewish can be a religious identifier or something different/more.

#32

Dr.Franklin

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06.28.2019 05:36PM

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@David

Do you think anti-semitism has been on the rise for 2 years or for a decade?

Why do you think so?

Sorry if you were expecting light-hearted questions

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@rosends

...as non-Jews can get that heavenly reward for abiding by just those 7 laws, no one is encouraged to convert.

That said, you would agree that Judaism is very firmly centred on Israel and it's people. There are several passages in the bible that secribe the undesirability of foreign wives, such as Ezra commanding the expulsion of foreign wives from Jersusalem.

ez 10:10Then Ezra the priest stood up and said to them, “You have been unfaithful by marrying foreign women, adding to the guilt of Israel. 11Now, therefore, make a confession to the LORD, the God of your fathers, and do His will. Separate yourselves from the people of the land and from your foreign wives.”

The proscription against foreign gods and foreign wives is probably the main reason Judaism and Jewishness was able to survive almost 2000 years of homelessness. The upside is that Jewish culture didnot disappear and it flourishes today, but the downside is anti-semitism exists almost everywhere.

I wont ask a question, but you may want to comment on the above!

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06.28.2019 06:16PM

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@keithprosser

I believe the issue was not so much with foreign wives in a genetic sense, but wives who did not practice the faith. That is what made them foreign.

There are many instances in our commonly shared scripture of those who were not biologically Israelites becoming Israelites.

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@Mopac

I look forward to there being an AMA on Orthodoxy, but that thread is not this thread.

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06.28.2019 06:28PM

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@keithprosser

Well, I will butt out respectfully, but I am sure you will get confirmation from the Rabbi.

Topic's author

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06.28.2019 06:44PM

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@keithprosser

I can see from the linked material that Jewish law is not easy to be expert in!

Nope, not at all! That's why Rabbis can easily make 100,000+ per year. My Rabbi is part-time in a relatively small congregation. She gets paid 60K

#38

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https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/601092/jewish/Why-Is-Jewishness-Matrilineal.htm

06.28.2019 07:38PM

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@keithprosser

The issue of foreign wives is that of wives who would influence husbands and families away from Judaism -- religious belief and not (as was stated) ethnic background. There is a large stress on that genetic component because we are a small group and keeping our heritage alive and our identity distinct is important.

Here is some reading on that point

#39

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@Mopac

No need to butt out, but I think the idea is that we supply the questions and virt supplies the answers.

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06.29.2019 06:18AM

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@Mopac

Yes like the Scandinavian countries who by every metric are better places to live than America. You have no idea of what socialism is. Please get an education.

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@David

For example, Jewish law says to welcome the stranger and give refugees a home,

Even Syrian , or Iranian refugees. Listen. it was probably all very well when populations were small and you would be talking of maybe just a few hundred. NOW we are talking HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of supposed and so called refugees.

So again; Will you accept so called refugees from Saudi Arabia? Syrian? or Iran, in today's climate of world wide Islamic terror?

Jewish law says that debts should be forgiven,

israel is owed debt from countries around the world including African nations. Are you the going to "forgive these countries their debts. The last time I looked it was a Record $158.3 billion in worldwide debts owed to Israel.

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@Deb-8-a-bull

The first time he ate some , i thought he would melt

LOL Fkn hilarious!! I can't stop laughing.

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06.29.2019 10:16AM

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@rosends

(one can't convert into a gene pool).

Try telling that to apologist for Islam. They seem to be totally convinced that Islam is a race. And to criticize, scrutinise and question, or even mock Islam is a racist hate crime against muslims, who are not a race either.

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06.29.2019 12:50PM

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@Stephen

I know a clergyman in the church who was sent to seminary in the middle east(The Antiochan Church is actually based in Damascus right now).

He was talking to a Muslim Imam over there, and it was brought up that there were good Muslims in The United States, and a town was mentioned that was all Muslim. The Imam responded that they were not good Muslims, because if they were good Muslims they would have already militarily taken over the state.

Needless to say, this was a shocking response.

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@Stephen

My aplogies to virt for this side-tracking of his thread. Stephen is usually very against thread hijacking, but I guess he could't resist it!

In the old days the only significant forms of xenophobia were race-based so the debate was cast in terms of racism. But its not the 70s or 80s any more and recently xenophobia has re-appeared in a different form.

Xenophobes like to hide behind the excuse that Moslems are not a race so they are not racists. But islamophobes - for want of a better word - are the same sort of people who were racists a generation ago. Indeed, it is often the same people, if they are old enough!

As one of the people Stephen considers a 'Islamic apologist', I deny that label. I have never defended Islam. What I have done is try to correct some eggregious misrepresentations of Islam. Whether xenophobia is crude racism or in its more insidious anti-Muslim form I find it unacceptable.

I was often in the front line against NF skinheads when I was a student 40 years ago... these days I just spar on the internet, but it's the same battle.

I hope Stephen will respect Virt's thread and begin a fresh thread to continue promoting his odious ideology.

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06.29.2019 12:55PM

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@keithprosser

I love Muslims, but it is impossible to detach theocratic dictatorship from the religion. If Muslims were to seize power where you live, they might force Christians and Jews to pay protection money(which is truly what every government does anyway), but they would likely kill you for being a godless blasphemer.

And really, they don't trest Christians and Jews thst gre as t either most of the time. Also, apostssy from Islam is punishable by death, so it kind of discourages conversions.

While Christianity was from the get go established as a Kingdom not of this world, Islam is very much a seculsr government, a political ideology taking the form of religion.

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@Mopac

I have no dispute that my country becoming an islamic state is not acceptable. But I think that can be avoided without instituting oppressive and intolerant policies. I do not approve of religion - I firmly believe secuarism is vastly superior and will win the battle of ideas against Islam, but being nasty to Muslims is not the way to do it.

It's the easiest thing in the world to foment strife.

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@Mopac

If Muslims were to seize power where you live

And if the dog hadn't stopped for a shit we would have had rabbit for lunch. Grow up.

#49

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@Mopac

I know a clergyman in the church who was sent to seminary in the middle east(The Antiochan Church is actually based in Damascus right now).

He was talking to a Muslim Imam over there, and it was brought up that there were good Muslims in The United States, and a town was mentioned that was all Muslim.

I wonder how they managed to become the majority? Mention that to a apologist for Islam and they will argue that you are exaggerating, call you racist and an "islamophobe" some will even call you a xenophobe of old. There are what people are calling no go zones here in the UK, but mention this to an apologist for islam and they will call you an outright liar. Maybe they should simply call them zones where non muslims would not prefer to go for a day out with there daughters.

The Imam responded that they were not good Muslims, because if they were good Muslims they would have already militarily taken over the state.

Indeed , That is exactly what the quran dictates and Islam promotes.

Needless to say, this was a shocking response.

You shouldn't be surprised. We are not even allowed to be angry about it.

#50

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06.29.2019 06:09PM

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Stephen is usually very against thread hijacking, but I guess he could't resist it!

I didn't hijack the thread. You have done that with you attack on me. You should actually read what I was responding to. I didn't bring "genetics"into this thread or mention them in the same sentence as religion. I didn't even mention the fact that it was you who actaully brought "ethnicity" and "religious identity" and mentioned them in the same sentence.

It was you who wrote this below wasn't it? You must think I was too stupid to see where you was heading with this snide sleight of hand: post 30.

Would you agree that 'Jewish' is not a religious identity nor an ethnic identity but something of both (or neither?).

See prosser, fkd again by your own big foot in mouth.

But its not the 70s or 80s any more and recently xenophobia has re-appeared in a different for

Your right. This is not skinheads and Jamaicans and West Indians battling it out in Erdington High Street or Soho Road Handsworth or the roller rink in Hockley. Those places have now fell to muslims as have many towns have and even the blacks have moved out for the best part. this is about a muslim takeover as seems to be happening everywhere except china where they are having none of it. The time you are referring to was unadulterated racism from BOTH FKN sides, with very few deaths and IT WAS to do with skin colour. What's your point? You are desperate for muslims to be classed as a race because then there can be no questioning, scrutinizing and more importantly for YOU, no criticizing of Islam, it will be a crime to do so and you will be there as always licking the arse that wants you dead. Even the homosexual community is licking the arse of Islam when they know for a fact that Islam calls for their death.

This is why there has been no face to face counter protest at Parkfield community school in Saltley, Birmingham where a teacher, doing her job of teaching homosexual lessons has had death threats and rape threats. No, these homosexual cowards haven't gone to the school in support of this teacher and her staff who are now living in fear are are failing to turn up for work. A few homsexuals though thoughtthey could turn up in the dead of night to tie a few homsexual colours to the school railing, they were discovered and bombarded with eggs and told 'never to return'. If this had been a christian mob protesting against lessons of homsexuality these littl homsexual panseies would have been ther spitting in there faces ands the christian would have ended up in court on charges of "homophobia". AND YOU CANNOT DENY THAT FUN FACT. or have you forgotten about the christian couple who wouldn't back a cake for homosexual same sex marriage. I have heard recently that christians have joined in the protest alongside muslims . They wouldn't have ever done this if the muslims had not taken up the issue nearly 8 weeks before. I happen to agree with the muslims on this issue, but not because it is against Islam to be homosexual and muslim, but because these babies are far too young to be taught this crap at that age.

There are great swaths of the UK that have been taken over by Muslims. You of course want to deny this take over. You don't care as long as it isn't you left as the only white family left in the street being intimidated.

And just to remind you; on the subject of "genetics" and "religious identity" it is Muslims who believe that their children ARE BORN FKN MUSLIM!

And NO! I didn't resist because my points were , are and still, valid and relevant to the thread. I didn't hijack the thread. You have done that with your attack on me, so fk you prosser.

#51

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https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2020/post_links/89028

06.29.2019 07:22PM

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@Stephen

In an AMA about Judaism, you couldn't resist a swipe at Islam and Muslims could you?

If you hadn't before, you have really gone off topic now! If you want to renew your attack on Muslims and Islam (and me!), start a thread.

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@David

- What do you say about Israel?

#53

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06.30.2019 01:56AM

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@Mopac

I know a clergyman in the church who was sent to seminary in the middle east(The Antiochan Church is actually based in Damascus right now).

He was talking to a Muslim Imam over there, and it was brought up that there were good Muslims in The United States, and a town was mentioned that was all Muslim. The Imam responded that they were not good Muslims, because if they were good Muslims they would have already militarily taken over the state.

Needless to say, this was a shocking response.

- WOW! A shocking response indeed. We had a guy like that at the university I went to in Paris, he was edgy at first, but thank God he has enough intelligence to come to his senses after few talks. It's an interesting position that stems from both ignorance of the religion & self-righteousness, & also a sense of fear of self-betrayal they feel if they accommodate others' beliefs. Obviously, this is true for many Christians as well. The "would have already militarily taken over the state" statement has nothing to do with the religion whatsoever, not even the effing Wahabis believe this!

I love Muslims, but it is impossible to detach theocratic dictatorship from the religion. If Muslims were to seize power where you live, they might force Christians and Jews to pay protection money(which is truly what every government does anyway)

- You'd definitely be better off under Muslim rule. First, you get to keep your own laws & customs, unlike the case of Secular rule. Second, you will be forced to pay the exorbitant amount of Jizyah which is a whopping $750 a year (per every adult male fit for military service) -unless, of course, you decide to actually join the military, in which case you shall be exempt.

but they would likely kill you for being a godless blasphemer.

- I don't know why everybody seems to think that, was never true. Atheists & agnostics (like Christians & Jews & Hindus...etc) are amongst the groups who are eligible for 'Ismat Dhimmah' (The Inviolability of Protection) which extends -same as with Muslims- the 6 basic rights of: religion, life, reason, lineage, wealth & honor. The only two groups to whom this inviolability does not extend are: apostates & Arab polytheists (who have long been extinct).

And really, they don't trest Christians and Jews thst gre as t either most of the time.

- Decidedly better than under Secular rule...

Also, apostssy from Islam is punishable by death, so it kind of discourages conversions.

- It does, for good reason.

While Christianity was from the get go established as a Kingdom not of this world, Islam is very much a seculsr government, a political ideology taking the form of religion.

- So it's a "theocratic dictatorship" & a "secular government"...? You guys love your labels don't you... Islam is a system of Morality (body), Rationality (mind) & Spirituality (soul) to guide the human being in whole, in body, mind & soul. Politics is simply the ethics of state, thus takes its root in Morality. In an Islamic system, Ethics, Law or Politics are all rooted in Islamic morality. In your Secular government, Politics is based on a Secular rationale, thus rooted in a Secular morality, as opposed to say, Christian morality. So, as a Christian, you feel in your soul Christian spirituality, while you believe in your mind Christian morality but also Secular morality -which are contradictory, yet practice with your body Secular morality when it comes to actual laws & policies. Don't you see the profound incoherence & utter nonsense in all this?

Topic's author

#54

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@Yassine

- What do you say about Israel?

My views on Israel are complex. I'm a supporter of the State of Israel, but I'm appalled at Netanyahu. I think he's a truly evil person.

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@David

My views on Israel are complex.

- Please elaborate.

I'm a supporter of the State of Israel, but I'm appalled at Netanyahu. I think he's a truly evil person.

- What exactly do you mean by State of Israel? Yeah, Netanyahu is a real piece of work, doing his best to impress Satan.

#56

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06.30.2019 07:36AM

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@keithprosser

If you hadn't before, you have really gone off topic now!

That's right. I hadn't before you decided to put your size nines into your mouth you pompous penis. IT WAS YOU who couldn't resist to go on the attack. IT WAS YOU that brought "ethnicity"into the thread. IT WAS YOU that brought "religious identity" and IT WASN'T ME who brought the subject of genetics into the fkn thread! so like I have said , fk you prosser.

you have really gone off topic now!

That's right again, my you do catch on fkn fast. After your unprovoked tirade rant against me, where you have yet again called me a racist Islamophobe elbeit veiled in the disguise as "70' xenophobia", I felt I had to defend my post and myself. There are one or two thick fkrs on this forum prosser : don't kid yourself that I am one of them. I seen where you were heading with this shite>>

Would you agree that 'Jewish' is not a religious identity nor an ethnic identity but something of both (or neither?).

It was nice to see that you got the answer you didn't' want.

Oh and please forgive me. At post50 I wrote:

Even the homosexual community is licking the arse of Islam when they know for a fact that Islam calls for their death.

This is why there has been no face to face counter protest at Parkfield community school in Saltley, Birmingham where a teacher, doing her job of teaching homosexual lessons has had death threats and rape threats. No, these homosexual cowards haven't gone to the school in support of this teacher and her staff who are now living in fear are are failing to turn up for work. A few homosexuals though thought they could turn up in the dead of night to tie a few homsexual colours to the school railing, they were discovered and bombarded with eggs and told 'never to return'.

If this had been a Christian mob protesting against lessons of homsexuality these little homosexual pansies would have been there spitting in there faces and the Christians would have ended up in court on charges of "homophobia". AND YOU CANNOT DENY THAT Fkn FACT. or have you forgotten about the Christian couple who wouldn't bake a cake for homosexual same sex marriage? I have heard recently that Christians have joined in the protest alongside muslims . They wouldn't have ever done this if the muslims had not taken up the issue nearly 8 weeks before. I happen to agree with the muslims on this issue, but not because it is against Islam to be homosexual and muslim, but because these babies are far too young to be taught this crap at that age.

I have to correct that above.

It turns out it was one single solitary christian lay preacher and one Jew turned up on one single occasion. The homosexual community ( yes they have their own community keith, how's that for causing division) reported that it was "Christians and Jews" too. But I think that this may be false simply so the homosexual ' community 'didn't want to appear to be singling out muslims only. The truth is they are shit scared of muslims, and who wouldn't be in their situation? This protest was started by muslims because they say "one cannot be homosexual AND muslim". Isalm finds homsexuality abhorrrant.

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