No go areas in the UK

Author: keithprosser

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#31
TheRealNihilist
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@keithprosser
I'm glad it's not just me that gets that impression! 
I Kind of had a bad approach but it is still true. He dislike Muslims when he should be disliking Islam. People can change. A scripture cannot. If Religion becomes less of a thing in people who are Muslims then they tend to be less violent. This can clearly be seen with Christianity. When people do not have Religion taking up most of their time they tend less to delve deep into it. 

#32
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@Stephen
Islam. I don't like Islam.
Your very first comment on this was about Muslims sending hate mail:
Coming to a town near you.

Cafe in Bradford receives hate mail for calling itself Greedy Pigs


 I have told you many times now prosser , once muslims become a large community, it is then they start demanding that YOU change YOUR ways. I noticed this letter is signed of "the community"  and not the Islamic Community, I wonder why that is?
Where was the comment about Islam again?
Not once in your entire response did you even mention the word Islam. You instead talk about the followers of the Religion as if that is the problem when we both know Islam is like how Christianity is the problem not Christians. 
#33
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@TheRealNihilist
He dislike Muslims when he should be disliking Islam. 

Look at that. You are right and wrong all at the same time. I have made my position very clear many times, omar, and as recent as post 29 above. That is only two post above your post 31. It is Islam I have a problem with and not muslims per se. Or all muslims. I don't doubt for a second that there are lovely , peaceful law abiding muslims who do want to integrate into a western society. I have never argued different. 

No my friend. It is with the islamic ideology where my problems lay.

Would you be so kind to explain to prosser and anyone interested, why it is that I " should be disliking Islam".


Your very first comment on this was about Muslims sending hate mail:

Yes. You should read the whole context, but I have seen from past experience that your inability to keep up with a thread is diablocal, including your own. Are you saying it wasn't from the 90% muslim community asking for the word "pig" to be removed from a food outlets name. It hasn't been proven yet I agree. But will we ever get the results of the police investigation? I doubt it, unless of course it was sent by a white far right supporter and then it will be all over ever fkn media outlet in the world, won't it.
Listen, there hundreds of food outlets including restaurants and pubs that have quirky animal names including pigs.This is first time TO MY KNOWLEDGE that a food outlet has been asked or ordered to remove part or parts or all of it's name by "community" that is 90% muslim. AND, with sly and veiled caveat.
#34
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@Stephen
You never mention Islams you only ever attack Muslims. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.
Is this "What are you doing to roll back  the takeover of Savile Town" a valid question?
#35
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@Stephen
Islam, Christianity.
Same old nonsense, different methodology.

And the U.K. is a secular society.
With a high proportion of Atheists.

#36
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@zedvictor4
And the more educated it becomes the more atheists there will be.
Replacing superstition with education is anathema to god beliefs.
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#37
keithprosser
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I agree, but that works best if you don't have 'faith schools'.  However that cuts across all religions and probably deserves itsown thread.   
#38
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@TheRealNihilist
Your very first comment on this was about Muslims sending hate mail:

yes so?

CONTEXT you buffon.

This thread, created by keith prosser is about "no go areas". He started this thread with a quote,:my quote, go and see for yourself then you will get the CONTEXT,

My first post was in context to prossers comments AFTER he had quoted me. 
 I mention muslims in CONTEXT of the thread created by prosser. I have said when muslims become great in number, they start demanding   change to their own way of living. The mail is one of a few example of muslims, YES MUSLIM demanding change once they become large in population until they claim an whole area as "their own" and make it clear to all non muslims that they are not welcome in "THEIR AREA". It is true and it is fact. 

 
Are you suggesting that the "hate mail" asking/ordering a owner of a food outlet to remove the word "pig" from the name of her outlet wasn't sent by anyone of the 90% muslim community?  It appears that the woman had no problems over the last year and a half since she started her business. Are you suggesting that this mail came from what appears to be the remaining 10% of the population. Listen, you buffon, there are hundreds of food outlets including restaurants and pubs in the uk that have all kinds of animal names and this is the first time to my knowledge that one has been asked/ ordered to change part,parts or all of its name with or without a cavete attached.

Muslims are protesting in Birmingham demanding that lessons in homsexualtiy not be taught to their children " because one cannot be homsexual and muslim". These teachers have had death threats and threats of rape made against them by MUSLIMS!!!!! these teachers are not turning up for work for fear of being assaulted and or killed by these MUSLIM protesters. i.e. they are demanding another was of living. On this issue I happen to agree with the MUSLIMS, but not because it has anything to do with their religion, but because I am totally against these homosexual lessons being taught to very young primary school children. Will you be calling me a "homophobe" ?



I also mention Muslims in context with the "no go areas" claim. And the simple reason I have done this is because IT IS FKN MUSLIMS WHO ARE MAKING THE CLAIM THAT CERTAIN AREAS ARE "THEIR OWN". 

 It very quite simple really even for someone with the caliber of your own buffoonery.

I could hardly NOT say who are making claims of places being "their area" without saying who is making the FKN claim could I, you dozy BUFFOON!!!

 And that is why I have mentioned muslims. No go away unless you have some other crackpot accusation of racism, "islamophobia" or bigotry to put to me.


#39
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@zedvictor4


And the U.K is a secular society.

this means that the state's governing cannot be the result of the policies and beliefs of any organized religion and that no religious leader has automatic political authority.

Not where Islam is concerned. Which is extremely unfortunate for muslims who  actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society. 
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#40
keithprosser
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@Stephen
Which is extremely unfortunate for muslims who  actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society. 
You mean the 'moderates' you've been denying exist for months?

#41
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@keithprosser
Which is extremely unfortunate for muslims who  actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society. 
You mean the 'moderates' you've been denying exist for months?

IF I MEANT "MODERATES",I WOULD HAVE SAID SO.

 And again you are purposefully misquoting what it is I have said about "moderate ISLAM " not moderate muslims. And  you have also ignored the FACT, there are many muslims MORE QUALIFIED THAN YOU, to say if or not there is such a thing as moderate ISLAM.  So fk you again prosser.

I have asked you many times to explain what you believe  "moderate islam" is and what other "types" of islam there are, and or what a "moderate muslim" actually is. But you have ignored those requests as you have my requests for you to show Islam in a good light.

But seeing that YOU ARE moving the conversation away from the one that you are losing and onto what is or is not what you call a "moderate muslim", watch this clip and tell me if these are "moderate muslims".


Moderate Muslims try to defend the death penalty for apostasy, adultery, homosexuality,


I hope you stick around long enough for Omar 2345 to explain to you why it is that  I " should be disliking Islam"., It should be interesting to hear his reasoning behind this. 

#42
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@Stephen
lessons in homsexualtiy
Can you supply the teaching notes for this course? You know, exactly what is being taught?


#43
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@Stephen
Which is extremely unfortunate for muslims who  actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society. 
Yeah keith can't you see where he mentions moderate Islam and he doesn't mention Muslims. FFS keith you just keep misquoting him continually using Muslim when he claims to be saying Islam.

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#44
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@Stephen
IF I MEANT "MODERATES",I WOULD HAVE SAID SO.
What you wrote was "muslims who actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society.".  What word you think is appropriate for the Islam do those Muslims follow?

In the west the term 'moderate Islam' was adopted for it.   Some in the Muslim world - most publicly the presideny of Turkey, Erdogan - don't like that because it suggests 'moderates' follow a 'watered down' version of Islam.    They insist it is them that follow Islam and it is the fanatics who are heretical non-Muslims.

So from an Islamic perspective there is not 'Islam' and 'Moderate Islam' - there is 'Islam' and a fantical heresy.   But you have misundertood - or misrepresent - this to suggest that Erdogan et al are against what the west calls 'Moderate Islam' and a supporter of its fanatical splinter - the precise opposite of his meaning.





#45
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@Stephen
Would you be so kind to explain to prosser and anyone interested, why it is that I " should be disliking Islam".
Under the assumption you value life would be the simple on.
Are you saying it wasn't from the 90% muslim community asking for the word "pig" to be removed from a food outlets name.
You can't stop this can you? I would like evidence for before I consider this unintentional way of not doing what you have a problem with which is: 
It is Islam I have a problem with and not muslims per se.
What?
It hasn't been proven yet I agree. But will we ever get the results of the police investigation? I doubt it, unless of course it was sent by a white far right supporter and then it will be all over ever fkn media outlet in the world, won't it.
Now you are on about a conspiracy theory.
Listen, there hundreds of food outlets including restaurants and pubs that have quirky animal names including pigs.This is first time TO MY KNOWLEDGE that a food outlet has been asked or ordered to remove part or parts or all of it's name by "community" that is 90% muslim. AND, with sly and veiled caveat.
How were they asked? By force? Do you have evidence of how this specific example was asked? 
#46
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This thread, created by keith prosser is about "no go areas". He started this thread with a quote,:my quote, go and see for yourself then you will get the CONTEXT, 
And you used an anecdote to state your reasoning behind their being "no go areas". If it wasn't then stop fence sitting and tell me whether you do or do not think there are "no go areas".
My first post was in context to prossers comments AFTER he had quoted me. 
I mention muslims in CONTEXT of the thread created by prosser. I have said when muslims become great in number, they start demanding   change to their own way of living. The mail is one of a few example of muslims, YES MUSLIM demanding change once they become large in population until they claim an whole area as "their own" and make it clear to all non muslims that they are not welcome in "THEIR AREA". It is true and it is fact. 
You have pretty much stated how a "no go area" can exist. Care to provide evidence for it?
Are you suggesting that the "hate mail" asking/ordering a owner of a food outlet to remove the word "pig" from the name of her outlet wasn't sent by anyone of the 90% muslim community?  It appears that the woman had no problems over the last year and a half since she started her business. Are you suggesting that this mail came from what appears to be the remaining 10% of the population. Listen, you buffon, there are hundreds of food outlets including restaurants and pubs in the uk that have all kinds of animal names and this is the first time to my knowledge that one has been asked/ ordered to change part,parts or all of its name with or without a cavete attached.
I can think of a diffferent community that can "hate mail" as in vegans. With this mind since there are two conclusions you require evidence for it to be Muslims. If Muslims were the only community to send "hate mail" then it would be fine from what you said but I have thought about another.
Muslims are protesting in Birmingham demanding that lessons in homsexualtiy not be taught to their children " because one cannot be homsexual and muslim". These teachers have had death threats and threats of rape made against them by MUSLIMS!!!!! these teachers are not turning up for work for fear of being assaulted and or killed by these MUSLIM protesters. i.e. they are demanding another was of living. On this issue I happen to agree with the MUSLIMS, but not because it has anything to do with their religion, but because I am totally against these homosexual lessons being taught to very young primary school children. Will you be calling me a "homophobe" ?
If you actually knew what was going on. Most of the mothers and fathers weren't protesting and this event was hosted by someone who has no children even attending the school. Here is a video for you know the information you are lacking:
I also mention Muslims in context with the "no go areas" claim. And the simple reason I have done this is because IT IS FKN MUSLIMS WHO ARE MAKING THE CLAIM THAT CERTAIN AREAS ARE "THEIR OWN". 
Why aren't you admitting you are problem are with Muslims? You are clearly not making the distinction and yes you do in every instance of talking about something require to make it clear in what you ate talking about.
And that is why I have mentioned muslims. No go away unless you have some other crackpot accusation of racism, "islamophobia" or bigotry to put to me.
Don't care just came here to state what you have already admitted if you don't think you did. That is your problem. 
 

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#47
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@Stephen
Are you saying it wasn't from the 90% muslim community asking for the word "pig" to be removed from a food outlets name.
Greedy Pigs is in Bradford, not Savile Town.

#48
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@Stephen
A skinhead get's a video put up on youtube with him saying, "oi yuse don't come down my stweet or I'll nut ya" would be enough for Stevie wonder to declare a no go zone. Ooh fear, ooh panic, ooh mummy.
#49
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@Stephen
Are you suggesting that the "hate mail" asking/ordering a owner of a food outlet to remove the word "pig" from the name of her outlet wasn't sent by anyone of the 90% muslim community?  It appears that the woman had no problems over the last year and a half since she started her business. Are you suggesting that this mail came from what appears to be the remaining 10% of the population.
I see keith has already disabused you of this crap but according to you the percentage of Muslims rose from 10% to 90% in 18mths. Fucking WOW.


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#50
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@disgusted
the percentage of Muslims rose from 10% to 90% in 18mths.
Careful... that might get quoted by Jihad Watch!

#51
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IF I MEANT "MODERATES",I WOULD HAVE SAID SO. 
What you wrote was "muslims who actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society.".  What word you think is appropriate for the Islam do those Muslims follow?


What are you now doing , again, is reducing yourself to answering questions with questions of your own, I asked you what is a moderate muslim?  And do you believe the muslims in the video are moderate muslim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiiGkB6wp4A&t=14s
Moderate Muslims try to defend the death penalty for apostasy, adultery, homosexuality" 
So are those muslims in the video and ALL agreeing with this Imam in Birmingham "moderate muslims" or some other kind of muslim? Yes or no? 

 IT WAS YOU WHO BROUGHT THE ERM INTO THE THREAD, YOU CLOWN, NOT ME. 



In the west the term 'moderate Islam' was adopted for it. 

Not in my books. Or in the books of others who understand islam much, much better than you . so fk off again.  I will add though, western governments have made up quite a few words of late and as Christopher Hitchens made clearly plain , these newley invent, created and "adopted" words are now a part of the muslim culture.


  Some in the Muslim world - most publicly the presideny of Turkey, Erdogan - don't like that because it suggests 'moderates' follow a 'watered down' version of Islam.    They insist it is them that follow Islam and it is the fanatics who are heretical non-Muslims.

Yes and he is in a much better position than you as are many other ISLAMIC speakers and scholars, to understand what he is talking about. so fk off again.

So from an Islamic perspective there is not 'Islam' and 'Moderate Islam' - there is 'Islam' and a fantical heresy.  

Unless you can name any other "types" and explain why the are a different "type". You have called islam " backward"  but never stuck around to even explain why it is backward. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1707  WILL YOU NOW EXPLAIN WHY YOU BELIEVE ISLAM IS BACKWARD? 



But you have misundertood - or misrepresent - this to suggest that Erdogan et al are against what the west calls 'Moderate Islam' and a supporter of its fanatical splinter - the precise opposite of his meaning.



 No. I have simply told you what many including Erdogan have made pretty clear on more than on occasion. Who am I to disagree with him. 

Erdogan has said that "the term moderate ISLAM is a tool invented by the west":


"The idea of ‘moderate Islam’ was invented by the West and is being used to weaken the ancient religion, Turkey’s President Recep Erdogan has said in reference to Saudi Arabia’s reforms, while also lashing out at the EU’s “discrimination” of Muslims.

He went on to reiterate:

“The term ‘moderate Islam’ is being lathered up again. The patent of moderate Islam belongs to the West. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam; Islam is one. The aim of using such terms is to weaken Islam,” Erdogan said in Ankara". I know you just hate these facts but your opinion of what Erdogan AMONG OTHERS, has said on the subject overrules any opinion you have on the matter. so, fk you again prosser. 

he also added:

"These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it".


If you want to keep repeatedly covering old ground then knock yourself out. I suppose it is the only way you can divert from the argument you lost concerning the OP. Your OP.

Greedy Pigs is in Bradford, not Savile Town.

And I apologise. I was slightly confused. No how about you start answering some question you sly devious fkr. Or are you just going to insist on diverting from one topic to another.
#52
Stephen
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@TheRealNihilist
Would you be so kind to explain to prosser and anyone interested, why it is that I " should be disliking Islam".
Under the assumption you value life would be the simple on.
This is suggesting Islam is not peaceful.  Or have I got that wrong and could you expand on that for the benefit of the apologists, such as prosser.

So after three and in your own words tell us why  it is that I  "should  be disliking islam"?


If you actually knew what was going on. Most of the mothers and fathers weren't protesting and this event was hosted by someone who has no children even attending the school.

Not according to the "organiser" who says he has "relatives at the school". This not the only school that muslims are protesting at either. 


and is all irrelevant. The point is that MUSLIMS are demanding that a Head Teacher and her staff should stop teaching what they have been told to teach and what will be compulsory to teach in the very near future. They have received death threats and threats of rape.  



And that is why I have mentioned muslims. No go away unless you have some other crackpot accusation of racism, "islamophobia" or bigotry to put to me.
That is your problem. 
 

No, that is you fkn problem if you cannot keep up . 
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#53
keithprosser
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@Yassine
@Stephen
What you wrote was "muslims who actually do want to actaully live in a peaceful  integrated western society.".  What word you think is appropriate for the Islam do those Muslims follow?
I'm more than happy to not use the word 'moderate' if you suggest an alternative.  There are Muslims who want to establish a world Caliphate and are prepared to use violence and force to achieve it.  There are  "muslims who actually do want to actually live in a peaceful  integrated western society." - at least in theory!  

We need labels to discuss the issue.  In the west non-muslims have adopted 'Islamist' and 'Moderate' for that purpose.  Many Muslims do not like those terms, for reasons I gave earlier.

So please do uggest term for the different sorts of Islam and their followers - they may catch on!   But I  don't expect many Muslims to read my posts, so I will stick with 'islamist/ihdist/fanatical' etc for one sort and 'moderate' for the other.

I've @ed Yassine to see if we can get our resident Muslim's view!
#54
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@Stephen
This is suggesting Islam is not peaceful.
Islam under the definition of peaceful: without violence (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/peaceful) is not peaceful.
So after three and in your own words tell us why  it is that I  "should  be disliking islam"?
I have said it and clarified again. I actually try to clarify what instead of not caring about my grammar like you.
Not according to the "organiser" who says he has "relatives at the school". This not the only school that muslims are protesting at either. 
My claim was that the organizer does not even have children in the school. You didn't rebut that. Then you committed a whataboutism instead of addressing what I said. You sure you are here to have a discussion instead of having a rant?
and is all irrelevant. The point is that MUSLIMS are demanding that a Head Teacher and her staff should stop teaching what they have been told to teach and what will be compulsory to teach in the very near future. They have received death threats and threats of rape.  
From a miniority even if we specifically target to how many parents came and how many parents have children in that school. Should we know hate all Muslims because of a minority now? Don't be a fence sitter and act like there is bad but when you have to act upon bad you aren't going to do something about it. So what do we do about it? Please do answer so I understand what you want to happen.
No, that is you fkn problem if you cannot keep up . 
The problem wasn't me not keeping up the problem was you simply denying what you are implying by what you say. Just focus on other things I said here if you want a discussion instead of acting irrational. 
#55
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@Stephen
Poor little stevie wonder doesn't understand even what he's writing,for instance
This is suggesting Islam is not peaceful
Which what he means is that Muslims aren't peaceful. He just lacks the intestinal fortitude to say so.

The point is that MUSLIMS are demanding
You mean Islams are demanding. Do you remember that it's not Muslims you don't like?

Head Teacher and her staff should stop teaching what they have been told to teach and what will be compulsory to teach in the very near future
What EXACTLY are they teaching that you have a problem with and if the Muslims have the same problem, why are you having a hissy fit?

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#56
keithprosser
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@disgusted
Can you supply the teaching notes for this course? You know, exactly what is being taught?
He [ie Andrew Moffat, the originator of the 'No Outsiders' course ] quit a previous teaching post after a row with Christian parents who rejected his anti-homophobia lessons.
I think Steve would say 'forced out' (not 'quit') f it was Muslim parents!


#57
Stephen
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@disgusted
The point is that MUSLIMS are demanding
You mean Islams are demanding. Do you remember that it's not Muslims you don't like? 

I mean muslims are demanding. they are there outside these schools DEMANDING teachers do not teach lessons about homsexualality and that it is ok to be muslim and homsexual. learn to read. 

#58
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No go zones are a fact. The arguments liberals use against them amount to "no official no go zones are documented by the government". Well no shit. Police are not going to openly admit they are afraid to go to a location without significant back up
#59
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@Stephen
The point is that MUSLIMS are demanding
You mean Islams are demanding. Do you remember that it's not Muslims you don't like? 

I mean muslims are demanding. they are there outside these schools DEMANDING teachers do not teach lessons about homsexualality and that it is ok to be muslim and homsexual. learn to read. 

Wow, don't you mean Islams are demanding? It's Islams you hate, please stick to your prejudices, for clarity.
And once again what can you or anybody teach about homosexuality that would influence heterosexual children? Sexuality is how we are born, or can you give me the date on which you decided to be heterosexual or homosexual, whichever you are.

#60
Stephen
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@keithprosser

He [ie Andrew Moffat, the originator of the 'No Outsiders' course ] quit a previous teaching post after a row with Christian parents who rejected his anti-homophobia lessons.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1088033/muslim-parents-school-protest-lgbt-rights-parkfield-community  I think Steve would say 'forced out' (not 'quit') f it was Muslim parents!


It appears that it was "muslim parents" mainly as it is at the other school in Birmingham. 

Teacher at centre of LGBT row in Birmingham received death threat.

Andrew Moffat says his lessons were not accepted by some Muslim parents, adding: "You can't teach someone to be gay"

"The teacher at the centre of the row over LGBT lessons has told Sky News he received a death threat and has been given advice from police about how he travels to and from school.

Andrew Moffat, the assistant head teacher at Parkfield Community School in Birmingham, wrote the No Outsiders programme that is used to teach diversity and equality in some schools."
Protests by mainly Muslim parents who object to their children learning about same-sex relationships have now spread from Parkfield to other schools in Birmingham and beyond".

I would say having received a death threat and warnings from the police concerning his safety, that this could be a classic case of being forced out of his job. But if you want to appease the the mob and play down the death threats you can call it "resigned" if you wish.