No go areas in the UK

Topic's posts
Posts in total: 243
--> @Stephen
Ibn Warraq, Islamic scholar and a leading figure in Qur’anic criticism, was a senior research fellow at the Center for Inquiry. 
Women are inferior under Islamic law; their testimony in a court of law is worth half that of a man; their movement is strictly restricted; they cannot marry a non-Muslim.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Non-Muslims living in Muslim countries have inferior status under Islamic law; they may not testify against a Muslim. In Saudi Arabia, following a tradition of Muhammed who said “Two religions cannot exist in the country of Arabia,” non-Muslims are forbidden to practice their religion, build churches, possess Bibles, etc.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Non-believers—atheists (surely the most neglected minority in history)—in Muslim countries do not have “the  right to life.” They are to be killed. Muslim doctors of law generally divide sins into great sins and little sins. Of the seventeen great sins, unbelief is the greatest, more heinous than murder, theft, adultery, etc.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Slavery is recognized in the Qur’an. Muslims are allowed to cohabit with any of their female slaves (Sura iv.3); they are allowed to take possession of married women if they are slaves (Sura iv.28); the helpless position of the slave as regard his master illustrates the helpless position of the false gods of Arabia in the presence of their Creator (Sura  xvi.77).

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".

Fundamentalist Christianity and Fundamentalist Judaism and even Fundamentalist Hinduism have the same kinds of "problems".

I think it's time to hang up your BROADD BRUUSH (not all Muslims believe exactly the same thing, they are not robots).
--> @keithprosser
But unless Allah is real and has plans for us there can be no such thing as a correct interpretation.


"US!!!? Muslims you mean. And it is all Islam, they share a book, the same fkn book, The same book is read by all muslims. Or are you telling me there are other "types" and "forms" of the Quran? 

they all claim their interpretation is the true one!

 All who?
You are so fkn fixated on "interpretation" so interpret this verse for me:

Quran 51 - You, who have believed, do not take the Jews andthe Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoeveris an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allahguides not the wrongdoing people.



It is alleged - with some credibility - that the rise of fundamentalist intrerpretations of Islam is at least partly due to Saudi Arabia using its great oil wealth to export 'wahaabist' Islam, for instance by building and funding mosques, schools and madrasas worldwide.   Or is that sectarian propaganda?  I can't be sure.

" wahaabist Islam" is still Islam They (wahaabists) are not a different sect of Islam as much as the western governments,leaders, media and now you like to push it.  Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding all the above as is Iran funding terrorism, and our western governments are not doing anything about it, are they. They appear to be encouraging it and we, the indigenous people, are called "islamophobic" and racist for airing our concerns that they keep importing more people from Islamic countries disguised are 'asylum seekers' and 'refugees' who have no intention of integrating with the "dirty animal pagan unbelieving kuffar". 

There are a few other factors that must be taken seriously into consideration.

 Mustafa Kemal Atatürk ( a secularist) was despised and hated by Muslims when he tried 'reforms' when the Islamic State/caliphate  ended in 1924 up until that time the Islamic Caliphate had existed for over 1400 years and in the time of its existence they had butchered more that 270 million people.

People thought the Islamic State was now a thing of the past, never to return, but in truth it had never gone away; it was there bubbling below the surface, literally. The one factor you have already mentioned, it was the discovery of oil that enabled muslims to resurrect the Islamic State. Discovered by western technology and the same helped them get it out of the ground, refine it and stupidly allowed them to nationalise it. Saudi Arabians went from living in tents and mud huts to living in palaces almost over night. Yes this gift of oil was from Allah because they had been faithful following the quran to the letter as taught by the perfect prophet muhammad and living in his way.

Another  factor is that Sayyid Ruhollah Mūsavi Khomeini,  known in the West as Ayatollah Khomeini, coming to power in 1979.  Now they had the money and the spiritual covering to wage Islamic jihad once more.

Another is Osama bin Laden. He and the mujahideen had defeated a super power and this too was a victory handed to them by Allah for remaining faithful to the words of the quran and walking in the way of the perfect prophet Muhammad and now they believed they were ready to take on the  " Great Satan"  itself, the USA.   Fortunately , what the Soviets couldn't do in ten years, thankfully the Americans did in just under ten weeks.

that is to encourage Muslims to reject conservative forms of Islam and adopt more progressive forms.

"forms" and "types" again

what like letting a woman drive car ... with the permission of and  escorted by, a father, brother, uncle or male cousin?
Remember Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, he who was hated and despised by muslims?  Who gave women the rights to vote, he gave women a right to education, a right work, a right  to choose her own husband. He forbid women from wearing the hijab and burqa and men from wearing a beard. It seems he was on the right track but now it all seems to be in reverse under Erdogan.

You are living in denial prosser.
Ibn Warraq, Islamic scholar and a leading figure in Qur’anic criticism, was a senior research fellow at the Center for Inquiry. 
Women are inferior under Islamic law; their testimony in a court of law is worth half that of a man; their movement is strictly restricted; they cannot marry a non-Muslim.

Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".



Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".



Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".



Similar bronze-age laws exist in the "Old Testament".




With a MASSIVE difference you absolute buffoon. Islam STILL practices all the above and worse. Islam is still ancient Islam.

There have been massive reforms in Judaism and Christianity and all for the better of mankind (though some may disagree). On the other hand ;  ISLAM  is STILL the BARBARIC ideology as it was when it was first created by man believing he had a vision over 1400 years ago.

Jews do not even recognise the Old Testament as ' there's' you fool and they never have.  And Christianity preaches love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek. You will not find a single quote from the  Christ of the New Testament instructing his followers to go out into the world and rape, maim and murder anyone who doesn't believe in him or who is not Christian, as does the ancient barbaric god of the Quran.

I have heard all of these fkn excuses from many apologist for islam like you and prosser, and they simply do not stand up when challenged.

I see you ignored much of that link just as I knew you would. All apologist do this when they have to face facts.


“The Democratic system that is predominant in the world is not a suitable system for the peoples of our region. … The system of free elections is not suitable to our country.”  King Fahd of Saudi Arabia. https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/is-islam-compatible-with-democracy-and-human-rights/

At least King Fahd has had the honesty to admit the incompatibility of Islam and Democracy.

"Quite clearly under Islam, one does not have the right to change one’s religion, if one is born into a Muslim family. Applying double standards, Muslims are quite happy to accept converts to their religion, but a Muslim may not convert to another religion; this would be apostasy, which is punishable by death. Here is how the great commentator Baydawi (c.1291) sees the matter:“Whosoever turns back from his belief, openly or secretly, take him and kill him wheresoever you find him, like any other infidel. Separate yourself from him altogether. Do not accept intercession in his regard.” https://centerforinquiry.org/blog/is-islam-compatible-with-democracy-and-human-rights/



You asked for a logical support for my claim. You got it from a muslim academic scholar and a Muslim King:  you don't like it. This is the typical reaction of someone having the FACTS of the matter shoved up their drainpipe. Now go away. Unless you would like some more facts concerning the incompatibility of Islam with west.


--> @Stephen
" wahaabist Islam" is still Islam They (wahaabists) are not a different sect of Islam as much as the western governments,leaders, media and now you like to push it.  Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding all the above as is Iran funding terrorism, and our western governments are not doing anything about it, are they. They appear to be encouraging it and we, the indigenous people, are called "islamophobic" and racist for airing our concerns that they keep importing more people from Islamic countries disguised are 'asylum seekers' and 'refugees' who have no intention of integrating with the "dirty animal pagan unbelieving kuffar".

I'm glad we have established a little common ground!  I think some of the posters here are being a little complacent about the consequences of the increasing impact of Islamism on British life.   Muslims make up only 1% of America's popution and the US has other, more pressing social issues sotheir perspective is different.  Here in the uk traditional race/colour xenophobia is almost a thing of the past but tension between the idigenous population and Muslims - including second and third generation Muslims - has ratcheted up alarmingly over the last few decades and doing so at an increasing rate.

While spectacular and violent attacks are still rare, low level petty stuff (name calling, Mosque windows being smashed etc) is a constant background hum.   There aren't no-go areas, but there area places where wearing a mini-skirt or wearing a burqa is 'non-neutral'. 

It's no practical use to blame one side or the other, or for one side to blame the other.  What we have is a classic 'vicious spiral' of mutual distrust and suspicion.

My concern is that we get into a situation where we no longer consider people as individuals but as undiferntiated members of a group.  That is we don't worry if a person is a law-abiding regular guy or a anti-social psychopath but whether they are a muslim or not.   Prejudice is pre-judice, that is 'judging before'.  It is perhaps odd that it is the left that supports individualism and the right that supports bee-hive mentality in this regard!

I don't think Britain is ever going to be an Islamic state under Sharia law.  But in the meantime a sizeable number of british citizens are coming under the thrall of an odious ideology.  Islam does not have to be homophobic, misogynistic or intolerant any more than Christianity has to be Creationist.

Ideally, I would prefer Muslims dropped Islam altogether and adopted rationalist humanism.  But that is too idealistic, even for an optimist like me!   But there are 'softer' forms of Islam than wahaabism - unfortunately they don't have Saudi billions promoting them and westerners like Stehphen and Tommy Robinson agreeing that only the most egregious forms of Islam are legitimate - they should ask to be on the Saudi's pay roll!










--> @Stephen
And it is all Christians, they share a book, the same fkn book, The same book is read by all Christians. Or are you telling me there are other "types" and "forms" [or interpretations] of the Bible? 
--> @Stephen
Yes, Saudi Arabia is funding all the above as is Iran funding terrorism, and our western governments are not doing anything about it, are they.
Freedom of speech (money is speech per Citizens United) and innocent until proven guilty (you can't convict people for mere suspicion) and BROAAD BRUUSH.
--> @Stephen
Discovered by western technology and the same helped them get it out of the ground, refine it and stupidly allowed them to nationalise it.
Please explain what you think would have been the "smart" thing to do?
--> @Stephen
With a MASSIVE difference you absolute buffoon. Islam STILL practices all the above and worse. Islam is still ancient Islam.
Where's the caliphate?

There have been massive reforms in Judaism and Christianity and all for the better of mankind (though some may disagree). On the other hand ;
HOWevER, their starting points look disturbingly similar to other ancient rule books.

--> @Stephen
ISLAM  is STILL the BARBARIC ideology as it was when it was first created by man believing he had a vision over 1400 years ago.
Perhaps, the prim and proper Christians of the world could BOYCOTT and SANCTION ALL countries that VIOLATE HUMAN RIGHTS.

The "problem" here is that the prim and proper Christians of the world don't give a flying flip about inalienable human rights. 

They only care about money.

The prim and proper Christians of the world have been pumping money into these "evil" Muslim countries for almost 100 years now.

Who's "funding terrorism"?  You are.  You and your father and your grandfather. [LINK]
--> @Stephen
Jews do not even recognise the Old Testament as ' there's' you fool and they never have.
Have you ever heard of "the five books of Moses" (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)?

The Old Testament is the Torah, the books of the Prophets and the books of the Writings. Within Judaism this trio is known simply as the Bible, or the Tanakh, an acronym derived from תורה/ Torah (Teaching), נביאים / Nevi’im (Prophets), and כתובים/ Ketuvim (Writings). When the term Old Testament is used, it is often in order to distinguish it from the New Testament, a collection of Christian books and letters that are not part of the Jewish faith. [LINK]
London in 2075L

Welcome to Londonstan!
--> @Stephen
And Christianity preaches love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek. 
Which apparently translates as "kill all Muslims"?
--> @Stephen
“The Democratic system that is predominant in the world is not a suitable system for the peoples of our region. … The system of free elections is not suitable to our country.”  King Fahd of Saudi Arabia. 

At least King Fahd has had the honesty to admit the incompatibility of Islam and Democracy.
EVERY SINGLE KING IN HISTORY BELIEVES - "The system of free elections is not suitable to our country."

This is not exactly a shocker.
--> @Stephen
You asked for a logical support for my claim.
That is correct.

You got it from a muslim academic scholar and a Muslim King: 
A big fat opinion sandwich.

you don't like it. This is the typical reaction of someone having the FACTS of the matter shoved up their drainpipe. Now go away. Unless you would like some more facts concerning the incompatibility of Islam with west.
You are conflating opinion with fact.  Opinion and fact are mutually exclusive categories.

FACT: Muslim majority countries conduct billions of dollars in trade with "western" countries.  NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WEST.

FACT: Muslim individuals are considered celebrities in "western" countries.  NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WEST.

FACT: Individuals from "western" countries often travel to and even start businesses and churches and live comfortably for extended periods in Muslim majority countries.  NOT INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE WEST.
--> @Stephen
Here's your Steel Man, [LINK]
--> @3RU7AL
MY, MY MY, you do like to bury your embarrassment extremely quickly as possible don't you. 

You are conflating opinion with fact.  Opinion and fact are mutually exclusive categories.
That is your opinion and it won't hide you embarrassment. Your a clown that forced your extra large boots into your mouth and that has been hit with his own stick.

You could have put all your bull shi'ite in one post. Were the facts from a MUSLIM scholars and a MUSLIM king just to much for you to swallow. Oh dear, there there, and never mind. Islam was and still is a barbaric ideology that will never be compatible with the west.
--> @Stephen
Were the facts from a MUSLIM scholars and a MUSLIM king just to much for you to swallow.
You are conflating opinion with fact.  Opinion and fact are mutually exclusive categories.
--> @Stephen
Islam was and still is a barbaric ideology that will never be compatible with the west.
20% extremists and extremist sympathizers (conservatives).

80% moderates.