Evil does not exist (from the monks of Mt Athos)

Author: Mopac ,

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  • Mopac
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    The Holy Fathers say that evil in and of itself does not exist. Evil is a distortion of reality. Evil is the desperate attempt of a thought that is not in accord with God’s will to enter into existence.

    Since evil has no existence of its own, everything that does exist is good. God did not create anything bad; thus, neither is the source of evil. Evil is the absence of good, the absence of existence. This is analogue with the light and darkness. Darkness does not have an origin while light must have one. Evil is the existential darkness.

    The problem, therefore, is within us, rooted in the the use of our free will. We have the freedom to move away from God, who is self-existing — or even more correctly, who is above existence — and the source of all that exists. This movement away from God is bad for us. Hence the things and experiences of this world, while good in themselves, may become harmful for us if they lead us away or distract us from God. Similarly, if they lead us towards God, then we may say they are good for us. Also, though something may be good for us at a certain time or in a certain situation, it may be spiritually harmful in other circumstances. In a rather simplified example, eating an apple when we are hungry and in need of nourishment is good and of benefit; eating that same apple when we have already eaten too much becomes the sin of gluttony.

    Our aim, therefore, is to seek God’s will and to fulfill it in all circumstances. Hence, the question „How can I have good thoughts in this situation?” must be changed to „How must I handle this, according to God’s will, in order to be closer to Him?”

    Since something exists, it is good. We must just be careful in our thoughts, with regard to our thoughts, to clean them: throw away most of negative thoughts and keep only the ones which are in accordance with God’s will. Hence, a very good thought is the humble one, saying: „My God, I don’t know why You allowed this to happen. Please enlighten me to handle it as You wish.”



  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    The Holy Fathers say that evil in and of itself does not exist.
    Heretics, God says he created it.

  • Mopac
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    --> @disgusted
    Just as a spoiled child sees evil in being confined to their room for behaving wrongly, so does the righteous judgement of God appear evil to those who are unrepentant and on the receiving end of it.




  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    Why you no rissen.
    God said he created evil.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @disgusted @Mopac
    i presume gus is refering to  Isaiah 45:7 

    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    Somewhere in the OP is the Orthodox solution to the problem of how evil can exist in a world created and ruled by an all-good god.  I'm not sure if it really explains murder and ebola.  

    As I understand it,  yhe idea is that everything is from God, hence good.  If it seems wrong to you then you're wrong and need to adjust your thinking.




  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Mopac
    The Duality within creation will always exist as long as the worlds of God exist....which is two sides of the same coin. Duality must exist for creation to exist as it is. Duality means two opposing states or forces (good and evil, cold and hot, light and darkness, alkaline and acidic, push and pull ect ect) and this is what controls creation as a whole from the very beginning (even apart from morality, two opposing forces creating a balance between each other), this creates contrast and separation apart from singular state of the Creator and without it there would be no creation period. While evil is not a created thing or object (meaning the Bible is wrong), it is more of what can be done in any given moment. It's the potential through individual actions is what creates an evil outcome (the potential of duality).

    Actions equal what can be labeled as evil, not that God creates evil but the potential for creating evil God can be blamed for, because of the reality of duality in creation. So while God can be blamed for the potential of evil, God cannot be blamed for the individual actions of evil, two different things. We have the potential for evil, but we also have the potential for good, or what can subdue evil in any given moment so there is individual responsibility. Is God exempt from being blamed for evil? no of course not on one level, what God is exempt from is individual choices because in an environment where both good and evil can thrive choices are what determines the outcome. So while God is responsible for duality, the individual soul is responsible for what choices are made in that environment. Self restraint is an individual choice, in spirituality one must choose the greater over the weaker.
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."


    Really though, the problem here is in how you understand good. We understand good as right and true. What we see as good behavior is abiding in truth. It isn't a utilitarian thing for us, it is a purity of heart thing. 
    As God is The Ultimate Reality, God is by definition the most good, because God is The Truth itself.








  • Mopac
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Creation is inherently dualistic, that is a defining characteristic of creation, I can agree with that.

    Evil takes form in creation, because deceptions and illusions exist as deceptions and illusions. They exist, though it is the part that doesn't exist that defines them. The perception of evil is what is real.

    I can agree that God created the potential for evil by giving us the freedom to choose.

  • keithprosser
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    --> @EtrnlVw @Mopac
    Meningitis bacteria have no heart, pure or otherwise.  But the are real, thry are part of 'theTruth'.   Tell me, would you tell the mother of a baby with meningitis "The righteous judgement of God appear evil to those who are unrepentant and on the receiving end of it."

    Perhaps you would, as you clearly beieve it is the case.

    Of course not all that is evil is natural...  much evil is done by men with bad thoughts and'impure hearts'.  But why bring a god into it?

    Mopac - you don't have to defend your god against any charge of creating  or permitting evil to me.   Your god is exonerated from all charges relating to evil by virtue that... there are no gods.




  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @keithprosser
    Believe it or not, (another argument) the human body and it's condition is based upon cause and effect, baby or not. That's how this part of creation is ruled. It's not evil or good, it's cause vs effect. This takes place on many levels, this realm was never supposed to be perfect. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @keithprosser
    Chemistry and physics rule this dimension. They are what make something or eliminates something. However, these conditions only exist because of God. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    Unfortunately, the consequences of other people's sin does effect the world. If a few greedy industrialists pump an immeasurable amount of smoke in the air, this is going to effect those around who have to breathe that air. When governments declare war, innocents suffer!

    We in the Orthosox Church see this as the consequence of Adam's transgression, that we inherit this big mess. Not the guilt as taught by the Latin Church and some protestants, but the mess. This is the environment we live in.


    But you do not deny the existence of God, you admit that The Ultimate Reality exists. That is a confession that God exists.



  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Mopac
    consequence of Adam's transgression, that we inherit this big mess.

    We don't inherit Adam's transgression. Adam and Eve were symbolic of mankind as a whole not individuals. That means we don't pay for their mistakes, what it means is that we battle and endure their weaknesses as humans not their specific actions as recorded. 
  • Mopac
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    It sounds like in some way, you have still found it to be true that we inherit the mess.

  • keithprosser
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    --> @Mopac
    But you do not deny the existence of God, you admit that The Ultimate Reality exists. That is a confession that God exists.
    You cling to that chop logic like a drowning man clings to a straw.  I suppose you will never realise that it isn't so.   I won't argue the point - not because I think you are right but because you have shown yourself to be incorrigible.
  • Mopac
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    --> @keithprosser
    "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened"

    I will not do you and others a disservice by compromising to your folly. If you believe there is Ultimate Reality, you believe God exists. You are not an atheist, you are simply prideful.


  • disgusted
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    --> @Mopac
    "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened"
    Who wrote this drivel? The ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages who wrote your book of fiction?


  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Mopac


    .
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    NEWSFLASH!!!  

    MOPAC AS A MINION OF SATAN HAS INFILTRATED DEBATEART TO SHOW DISCORD TOWARDS THE TRUE WORDS OF JESUS THE CHRIST!  BEWARE!

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    Mopac,

    As if my thread listed below didn’t make you one of the most dumbfounded FAKE Christians on DebateArt, where I also showed you to be a minion of Satan, now you create this topic of yours where you continue to step in the proverbial poo!  When will it ever stop?!

    Are the JEWS upset that the CHRISTIANS stole their Yahweh God?



    YOUR BIBLICAL IGNORANT QUOTE AGAIN (Post #1): “The Holy Fathers say that evil in and of itself does not exist.”

    Evil doesn’t exist? Then tell our Yahweh/Jesus God this LIE because He stated that He created EVIL in the first place, and refers to it in His inspired word!  HELLO? Why do you continue to slap Jesus in the face?

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND I CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things." ( Isaiah 45:7) 

    "Shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6) 

    “The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the EVIL and the good.” (Proverbs 15:3)

    For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.”  (Colossians 1:16)  In this passage, all things includes the fact of EVIL being created by our Yahweh/Jesus, GET IT?



    YOUR WAY OUT IN LEFT FIELD IGNORANT QUOTE (Post #1): “The problem, therefore, is within us, rooted in the the use of our free will.”

    Mopac, HELLO, anybody home today?!  We DO NOT have free will, period. This is because our Yahweh/Jesus is OMNISCIENT, therefore He knows everything about us from our beginning, and to the end. He knows every move we will make throughout our lifetime, therefore we DO NOT HAVE FREE WILL because Yahweh/Jesus is holding our puppet strings where He is the Puppet Master, as a few of the many passages below so dictate, do you understand? 

    “But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.” (John 6:64)

    “Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD” (Psalm 139:4).

    “O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways” (Psalm 139:1-3).

    “Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known
    the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).



    YOUR CONTINUED BIBLE IGNORANT QUOTE (Post #12):  "We in the Orthosox Church see this as the consequence of Adam's transgression, that we inherit this big mess.” 

    Barring the fact that you continue to embarrass Jesus by not using "spell-checker," it was NOT Adam’s transgression you ignorant fool, it was EVE’S transgression as shown in the passage below:

    “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.” (1 Timothy 2:14)



    Mopac, tell us, what makes you LIE about our bible’s true content? Has Satan promised you great rewards upon your demise to LIE about Jesus’ inspired words within the bible?  Is it because of your Satanic Orthodox Church that feeds you wrongful information?  Or, is it yourself that has obviously never read our Judeo-Christian bible, therefore making yourself the continued fool in front of the members of DebateArt?

    It is no wonder that Jesus has sent me to DebateArt to fight in His name against minions of Satan like you, whereas your continued bible ignorance is displayed ad infinitum, where I am going to have to hire a secretary to help me keep up with your "plethora" of blatant LIES about our faith!


    WHO WANTS TO JOIN MOPAC’S ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT ALLOWS HIM TO LIE IN THE NAME OF SATAN? ANYONE?  NOT!


    .

  • Mopac
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
    Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

    Your folly? No charity. You are as a clanging symbol.


  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Mopac



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    MOPAC,

    YOUR EMBARRASSING QUOTE THAT DOES NOT ANSWER WHY YOU RUN AWAY FROM JESUS' TRUE WORDS: "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

    Once again you RUN AWAY from your total bible ignorance as I have embarrassingly shown you in my post #18 above!  In you showing us in how ignorant you truly are regarding the scriptures, is an ongoing problem for you, of which no one will take you seriously in the future as your word becomes totally moot.

    As I have easily shown ONCE AGAIN in my post #18 above, your blatant bible ignorance is without bounds, whereas Satan is certainly smiling in your behalf, but Jesus is probably just shaking His head in disgust towards you. (Hebrews 4:13)

    Mopac, you are guilty of yet another biblical axiom of the inspired word of Jesus in this passage:  For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” (2 Timothy 4:3)


    Mopac, to save yourself further embarrassment here at DebateArt, maybe it is time for you to change your moniker, or maybe take a break, and then revisit DebateArt Religion forums at a later date, but this time, LEAVE YOUR PARTNER SATAN BEHIND!


    .




  • Mopac
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    It is isn't thst I don't take scripture seriously. I don't take you seriously. 

    So what church do you go to? Do you answer to an elder? Or is it just you, the bible, and your prelest?

  • disgusted
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    et
    their actions weren't recorded because they never existed.
  • Mopac
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    --> @disgusted
    Who never existed?
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @Mopac



    .
    mopac,

    You ask me questions and expect an answer, when you DO NOT address my godly posts to you in the name of Jesus, other than to RUN AWAY from them? Are you kidding? Surely you jest, correct? LOL!


    You continue to RUN AWAY from my godly posts #18 and #20 regarding our Jesus and our faith, where you outright make yourself one of the most bible ignorant fake Christians on DebateArt.  Your credence on this forum is diminishing rapidly by running away from Jesus' true words, as Satan is rewarding you daily!

    You are the NUMBER ONE FAKE CHRISTIAN RUNAWAY ON DEBATEART!  Congratulations!


    .
  • keithprosser
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    --> @disgusted
    You can just grab some popcorn and watch this one...