Pizza Mafia DP1

Author: Mharman

Posts

Total: 428
#121
Cogent_Cognizer
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 365
0
2
7
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Cogent_Cognizer
0
2
7
-->
@Wylted
Yeah, I don't aspire to be a lawyer. But some of my theories had correct conclusions from last game. Also, there is definitely strategy to me presenting a theory that I think is false. Just remember there're a lot of different strategies in this game. Certainly I have atypical ones though.

#122
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
Noob scum tend to lean on the I'm new excuse too hard and milk that,so that is why I think it would be increased odds of scumminess if he has a little experience 
#123
Cogent_Cognizer
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 365
0
2
7
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Cogent_Cognizer
0
2
7
-->
@Club
Why would you claim to be a Mason? Lol
#124
Cogent_Cognizer
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 365
0
2
7
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Cogent_Cognizer
0
2
7
-->
@Wylted
Noob scum tend to lean on the I'm new excuse too hard and milk that,so that is why I think it would be increased odds of scumminess if he has a little experience 

You say this, and yet was wrong about Pressf.
#125
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Club
Don't be so quick to claim
#126
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Cogent_Cognizer
It is almost impossible to be 100% certain of anything in this game. We have to go with the odds. I still think that lynch could have been avoided if pressF was a little less evasive with his answers and quicker with them
#127
Cogent_Cognizer
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 365
0
2
7
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Cogent_Cognizer
0
2
7
-->
@Wylted
We have to go with the odds.

I agree. Given scum is a minority, VTLing this early always has higher odds of VTL'ing a town member.
#128
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
-->
@Cogent_Cognizer
You claimed it would be a scum read for anyone else, implying an experienced player saying this would be scum, right? But an experienced player would never say this considering the claim of being a new player is in what BMD said.  When would an exp player every claim to be new to the game? Yet you're claiming this confused you because if it was someone else who said it, it would be a scum tell. Fact is, no one else but new players would say this. You shouldn't even have been confused. 
I understand what you mean now, but you're reading way into this

And an experienced player could say that, just not referring to themselves, you see what I mean?
#129
Speedrace
Speedrace's avatar
Debates: 63
Posts: 6,283
4
9
11
Speedrace's avatar
Speedrace
4
9
11
Doesn't Club's claim mean multiple people have the same character? That's trippy lol

#130
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Cogent_Cognizer
Like poker (have previously played for a living prior to black friday). If you play just based on the easily tangible math you will lose. You need to look for behavioral clues and apply those or the scum will use an exploitive strategy to win. For example when playing poker if I have a 90% chance of winning based on pure math but my opponent just went all in and he has suddenly developed a genuine tremble in his hands and his voice cracks, then I will lose all my money by calling him. His behavioral clues let me know that the tangible math of 90% is wrong and that my true math is somewhere close to zero%, though it could be considerably higher given his ability to actually know what a monster hand looks like for example. 

There was a thing I used to do some poker sessions to make sure that I was actually looking at behavioral tells. I would either cover the cards on my computer screen with a sticky note to prevent seeing my own cards or in live play refuse to look at my hand though pretending to. Those were usually winning sessions by the way and I learned from them. 

We aren't machines.  Exploitive play is going to give you the highest ROI in games where you are not out of your depth.  

I have played against people who have attempted to use pure math. They lose. The game is too complicated for that. In mafia the game is even more abstract then poker. Using pure math is a losing strategy and exploitive play is ideal. 

I still use math when I play poker don't get me wrong but I apply it to abstract things. Like my opponent typically raises full pot in this spot when he has a top pair hand to protect his top pair. My math will determine that a scare card will most likely come next and I can bluff him off his hand so I will likely call in that spot. 

I am not saying don't use math, but do your best to apply it to more abstract things. I think you may have some unique insight into psychology if your profile is honest,so you should have an advantage of k owing peoples psychology. Don't throw away that advantage by not playing in an exploitive way.



#131
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Cogent_Cognizer
Also, since it seems no one else is really helping you to figure out what to do in this game

Yeah maybe was kinda mean of us to try to take advantage of him the way we did.

You have to admit though it would be pretty hilarious if he was scum and got tricked into outting his team on page 2 of DP 1.
#132
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
If I was a mod and he was scum I would honestly warn him to not out his whole team that blatantly
#133
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Wylted
unvote VTL pie 

for role fishing

He’s Policy if he don’t. Why do you think it’s role fishing?
#134
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
-->
@ILikePie5
I swear every game. Stop this. We need to make the game fun for other players if we want an active mafia community.  We can't treat somebody like that. Club puts in good effort, is fun to play with and doesn't deserve to be ostracized every game. Why should he have to role claim every game dp1? 
#135
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
Goddamnit club...
#136
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Wylted
I swear every game. Stop this. We need to make the game fun for other players if we want an active mafia community.  We can't treat somebody like that. Club puts in good effort, is fun to play with and doesn't deserve to be ostracized every game. Why should he have to role claim every game dp1? 

Do you really need me to spell out stupidity? What was the point in him claiming Mason? There was absolutely no reason? Absolutely no reason. He could be town confirmed after tonight if it came to that. It’s just poor play and it hurts town.

UNVOTE 
#137
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Wylted
If I was a mod and he was scum I would honestly warn him to not out his whole team that blatantly

To clarify I am not saying that I think he is town confirmed. I do town read him though.
#138
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Case in point....please explain to Wylted
#139
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Speedrace
Doesn't Club's claim mean multiple people have the same character? That's trippy lol

Not necessarily.
#140
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Speedrace
Doesn't Club's claim mean multiple people have the same character? That's trippy lol

No it doesn't. The other Mason could be, for example, green olives.
#141
Wylted
Wylted's avatar
Debates: 34
Posts: 5,754
3
4
11
Wylted's avatar
Wylted
3
4
11
He will get better each game. It takes longer to get good on this site than DDO because it has a less active mafia community 
#142
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Case in point....please explain to Wylted

I get off break in 6 mins. While I am gone you tell me what you want me to explain to him and if it is still relevant when I return then I will do so.
#143
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Club
Try to breadcrumb who your partner(s) are. And please consult your partner on reads and overall game play.
#144
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Wylted
He will get better each game. It takes longer to get good on this site than DDO because it has a less active mafia community 

Aight man.
#145
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
While I am gone you tell me what you want me to explain to him and if it is still relevant when I return then I will do so.

Dw about it.
#146
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 13,109
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@WaterPhoenix
Any preliminary reads?

#147
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Club
Now that you've outted yourself you need to tell us everything about your role. How many other Mason's are there? Can any of you recruit? If so, how many times?

Tell us everything there is to know about your role but FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A MASON PARTNER DO NOT TELL US THEIR NAME.

Okay one more time...

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A MASON PARTNER DO NOT TELL US THEIR NAME.

Tell us everything else about your role though.

Don't fuck this up.
#148
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,294
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@ILikePie5
Dw about it.

Don't worry?
#149
Cogent_Cognizer
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 365
0
2
7
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Cogent_Cognizer
0
2
7
-->
@Wylted
Ok, I get everything you're saying man. I just don't get why this means we need to VTL on DP1. We had this argument before, you've never explained why this means VTL'ing dp1.

Yes, we can tell based on behavior who is who, but we don't have any information other than to go on. Behavior, alone, can't tell someone who is who. There's probably many times where you thought, due to behavior, someone was scum or town based on their behavior and probably have been wrong a lot. We need combination of behavior + some facts we get from a NP. 

If you keep arguing these points, you're not going to convince me to VTL on DP1. It just doesn't make sense whatsoever. People's behavior in DP1 is too sporadic, and we have nothing to compare their behavior to(i.e a fact such as so-and-so being killed by scum in np1).


Doesn't anyone else get what I'm saying? Behavior is important, but we can't solely go on behavior for a VTL. DP1 has no hard facts in it whatsoever, and I do not think it's a good idea to VTL merely on behavior alone.

I just don't get why you repeat yourself when I already agree behavior is important, but I don't believe it's enough on its own.

#150
Cogent_Cognizer
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 365
0
2
7
Cogent_Cognizer's avatar
Cogent_Cognizer
0
2
7
-->
@Wylted
basically what you're suggesting would be akin to in Poker to not even look at your cards(hard facts) and decide to make a decision off of other people's behavior. This doesn't make sense whatsoever. 

Let's look at our hand before we VTL dude. Wouldn't you agree if someone just didn't even look at their hand in poker and went solely off of behavior that this would be a stupid idea?