Animals and the Afterlife

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Posts in total: 113
After fourteen years, on Friday, I had to put my dog down. I will miss her, but it had to be done. She was the greatest dog on the planet. I've had enough maudlin moments over the weekend, with many I'm sure still to come, but it gave me a chance to explain to my 11 year old that life is like the flame on a candle, when it goes out, it doesn't go anywhere, it's just gone. Of course, so many people believe in the afterlife around here. To my Christian friends, many I'm sure had dogs, do you believe animals go to heaven?

I think the answer has to be "no". First off, they don't have souls, as far as the bible seems to be concerned. Second of all, they don't know Jesus, and that's the only way into heaven. WHat do you think, and why do you think it?

Do animals, then, go to hell? I mean they don't believe in Jesus. They have no souls to torture though. So then, do they just get annihilated?

I'm sorry for your loss. 

No one knows what happen when we die.
--> @ludofl3x
No they go to heaven, like you will. I'm so sorry
--> @janesix, @Dr.Franklin
@DRFranklin On what would you base that, that they go to heaven? What in the scripture would support that?

Thanks for the condolences, sincerely. 
--> @ludofl3x
Do they sin, they cant control themselves
--> @Dr.Franklin
But they (a) do not have souls and (b) do not know Jesus, which according to the bible seems to be two pretty big conditions they miss. 
--> @ludofl3x
Doesnt matter, if they dont have souls then they cant sin
--> @Dr.Franklin
I find your view of Christianity pretty incoherent, if I'm being honest, and most of the time I think you're not being honest about being a Christian. If they don't have souls, then they cannot have an afterlife period, because isn't that what carries on into the afterlife?
--> @ludofl3x
arolyn Sharp's beloved greyhound Starr was 4 years old when she was diagnosed with a deadly form of cancer.
Sharp decided the two of them would stay together as long as Starr was not suffering too much. The greyhound received radiation treatments and pain patches for several months until the veterinarian told Sharp it was time to end it.
"When we went in for the last time, I held her in my arms for the comfort of both of us until she had left," said Sharp, who lives in Overland Park, Kan. "I have still not really made peace with losing her so young."
Eight years later she still doesn't understand the "why." But she is certain she'll hold Starr again -- in an afterlife.

"I believe I'll have three cats and a whole bunch of dogs waiting for me," Sharp said.
Is there an afterlife for animals? Or as a popular question puts it, "Do all dogs go to heaven?"
Jack Vinyardi of Kansas City, Mo., an ordained interfaith chaplain of pets, said he is asked that question all the time as he comforts people who have lost a pet.
He tells them there is no faith that claims to know unquestionably what happens to animals when they die.

"It is my job to comfort," he said. "I believe we each can find answers to divine questions if we look deeply in our own hearts and ask for guidance there. Although our answers may differ from the answers others have found, they are our own, and they will comfort us. And there is only one religious truth I can confidently assert, that our relationships with our companion animals are both emotional and spiritual, so they never really end, wherever our bodies and souls go after death."
We asked people of various religions how their faith answers the question of whether there is an afterlife for animals:
Protestant
Thor Madsen, academic dean at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, acknowledged the desire of Christians to see their pets again. But, he concluded, "We really have no biblical grounds for an assurance that our pets will be resurrected along with us."
Some Christians think heaven would be lacking something essential to their happiness if their pets were not there with them, Madsen said.
"But the Scriptures imply that heaven's overwhelming treasure for us is the fellowship that we, the followers of Christ, will have with our Creator and Savior," he said. "Nothing will seem to be absent at that point."
Catholic
Children, and even some adults, have asked the Rev. John Schmeidler of St. John the Evangelist Catholic Church in Lawrence, Kan., whether their pets had gone to heaven.
"St. Thomas Aquinas wrote about animals having a soul, but it wasn't similar to that of humans, and St. Francis of Assisi saw animals as God's creatures to be honored and respected," said Schmeidler, a Capuchin Franciscan.
The Catholic Church traditionally teaches that animals do not go to heaven, he said.
"But a lot of people have a hard time with that, and I do, too, when I see a grieving pet owner. I know God wants us to be totally happy in heaven, and if our dog will help make us fully happy, and if God can resurrect us, I'm sure he could resurrect a dog too."
Muslim
The Quran contains no direct references to an afterlife for animals, said Muslim scholar Abdalla Idris Ali of Kansas City. But there are indirect references. One says that in paradise people will be given everything they have asked for, he said, "so indirectly, if they want their pets, they can have them with them."
Islam also teaches that God will be the judge of people and animals, Ali said.
"For example, he will charge an animal that has horns who took advantage of one that didn't have horns, and that horned animal will be turned to dust after taking him to account for what the horned animal did," Ali said.
Jewish
Rabbi Scott White of Congregation Ohev Sholom in Prairie Village, Kan., said, "Judaism teaches that God reserves a blessed existence in the world to come for the truly virtuous. It's only fitting that such an existence includes the pet that inspired the greatness.
"For myself, paradise with my own mutt [Rescue the Wonder Dog] is a perfect inducement to pursue virtue."
American Indian
American Indians believe all creatures are interconnected, said Gary Langston of Kansas City, a Northern Cherokee.
"All living things are children of the Earth," he said. "It doesn't matter if we have feet or wings or roots.
"So, yes, there is an afterlife for animals. We all are going home, back to the Creator. And, yes, people will see their pets again. The dog I had as a kid, his spirit never left me; he just moved into a different dimension."
Langston said he believes that when he dies he will move into the dimension where his dog is, and they will be in the spirit form together.
Hindu/Vedanta
There is a story in the Hindu epic "Mahabharata" about Yudhisthira, the eldest and noblest of five Pandava brothers. When he made his final journey to heaven, his faithful dog Dhruba followed him there, said Anand Bhattacharyya, a member of the Kansas City area's Hindu community.
"Yudhisthira was allowed to go to heaven, but not his dog," he said. "But he didn't want to enter heaven without his dog. On Yudhisthira's insistence both were allowed to enter heaven in eternal peace."
Still the general Hindu belief is that animals have souls but no access to eternal life, Bhattacharyya said.
"Because of the soul's inherent urge to be united with its source [God], souls in animals will ultimately evolve to the human plane. Once the soul is in a human body, it is capable of union with God in eternal bliss. But it may take many more reincarnations in human form to liberate the soul from the death-rebirth cycle."
A similar view comes from Linda Prugh of the Vedanta Society, an organization based on a Hindu philosophy. She said animals have souls, but unlike humans they do not have the ability to r

--> @Dr.Franklin
So your post basically says that most Christian denominations WANT there to be pets in heaven, but they all acknowledge there's no scriptural support in that direction. One guy seems pretty close to me: heaven's not about pets, it's about fellowship with Jesus. Screw pets. I'm curious as to how Aquinas differentaited, then CONFIRMED his differntiation, on animal souls versus people souls. I wonder what it was. If the only way to heaven is to know JEsus, then there seems to be no chance animals can get in. Glad I don't believe in such a place then :).

--> @ludofl3x



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ludofl3x,

The longest trip any animal lover will take, is the one to the Vets to put their best friend down. I am always with them the entire time, from the sedative shot until the final one.  I bring them home to where they lived and bury them upon the property.

If one is a Christian, our pets are heaven bound: “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O LORD.” (PSALM 36:6) 

The conflict regarding the verse above is like you said, is the fact that our pets did not know Jesus and He is the only way through the Pearly Gates. (John 14:6)

Sorry for your loss, just think of the great memories you two had and smile.


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--> @ludofl3x
noi, Jesus is loving
--> @Dr.Franklin


Dr. "C&P" Franklin,


With me, since your moniker includes "C&P," for Copy and Paste, can you at least separate the paragraphs to make it visually more readable?

As I am sure you are aware, heaven will be 1400 square miles with 65 foot walls, therefore since animals never knew Jesus, they will not be in our glorious heaven.  Jesus thought of this by not letting the animals know of Him (John 14:6), good move Jesus, where we didn't need millions of Elephants roaming around our limited space in Heaven, praise!  


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--> @BrotherDThomas
John 4:16 doesnt say that
--> @BrotherDThomas
If one is a Christian, our pets are heaven bound: “Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your judgments are like the great deep; you save humans and animals alike, O LORD.” (PSALM 36:6) 

How does this mean pets are heaven bound? I think you, like the others cited in the article from Franklin, WANT pets there to be included, but there isn't anything that deals with the issue directly. Thank you for your kind words, though!
--> @ludofl3x



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ludofl3x,

Okay, try these verses on for size!

“And ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God.'" (Luke 3:6 ) ALL FLESH includes our pets!

“Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath, man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust and to dust all return. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) 

The John 14:6 verse still gets in the way of the passages above, unless Jesus gave our animals ESP. :(


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--> @BrotherDThomas
"All flesh" in that context seems to remove any conditions at all from heaven, which makes faith irrelevant, right? And the Ecclesiastes makes it sound like there's not heaven for anyone!
--> @Dr.Franklin


Dr. "C&P" Franklin,

YOUR OUT IN LEFT FIELD QUOTE: "John 4:16 doesnt say that"

I know it doesn't, BUT JOHN 14:6 does like I stated in my post!  HELLO, anybody home today?  :(


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--> @ludofl3x

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ludofl3x

YOUR QUOTE: "All flesh" in that context seems to remove any conditions at all from heaven, which makes faith irrelevant, right? And the Ecclesiastes makes it sound like there's not heaven for anyone!"

YES, and YES, whereas the Ecclesiastes passage can be "spin doctored" subsequent to going back to dust, where the alleged "soul" is removed and heaven bound. This is why I always state that it is hard in being a TRUE Christian in the 21st century in running across these anomalies.


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--> @BrotherDThomas
no no
--> @Dr.Franklin



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Dr. "C&P" Franklin, 

Instead of always giving a non-answer answer, explain why you stated "No, No" to my post $19!

BEGIN.


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--> @BrotherDThomas
nah
--> @BrotherDThomas
1400 square miles (Not much bigger than Rhode Island). Hardly room to swing a cat, considering all the payed up post-Jesus Christians.

And just out of interest. Where did all the good people go pre-Jesus?

And perhaps there's a separate heaven for Elephants, that God/Jesus wanted to keep a secret.

And why the 65 foot walls. Sounds more like a Prison than a heaven.

--> @Tradesecret, @zedvictor4, @Dr.Franklin



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zedvictor4


In answer to your quotes to my post #13, yes, Heaven will seemingly be crowded with a lot of Christians, especially of serial killers, rapists, pedophiles, etc., that all called upon the Lord while in prison, therefore they will be saved of their earthly sins (Romans 10:13), whereas Atheists, fence sitting Agnostics, scientists that did not believe in Jesus, even though they saved millions of Jesus' creation through their work, etc., are burning in Hell, praise Jesus!  

Since there is only one God (1 Timothy 2:5), therefore Jesus is Yahweh God incarnate of the Old Testament through the Triune Doctrine, and since Jesus' creation is approximately only 6 thousand years old, as chronicled within the scriptures from Adam to the present day, there is no pre-Jesus Christians. In other words, in the last 6 thousand years since Adam, people had their chance to believe in Him, and if they don't, then they are burning in the sulfur lakes of Hell as we speak, praise our ever loving and forgiving Jesus' revenge!

Like you stated, I am hoping that Jesus did make a separate heaven for the Elephants, and most importantly, for the dinosaurs as well!
The 65 foot walls that is mentioned in the Bible is to hopefully keep out the Presbyterians like TRADESECRET, along with the Catholics that breed like rabbits since Heaven is not that large to begin with. 

Since I am a TRUE Christian, then when I walk past the Pearly Gates, the first thing that I will ask Jesus will be, "Hey Jesus, when are you planning your 2nd Coming so we can watch you in horror with your 2 million angels brutally murder the unbelievers of you and Christianity?" (Revelation chapters 1, 9 and 11). This godly and loving act by Jesus will put the special affects movies in Hollywood to shame!, praise!



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--> @Dr.Franklin



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Dr. "C&P" Franklin,

YOUR QUOTE TO MY POST #21:  nah

WHAT?!  Thats it?  No explanation from you other than another RUNAWAY statement regarding you calling Jesus' word as LIES in Luke 3:6 and Ecclesiastes 3:19-20?!  As if your misunderstanding in your post #14 wasn't enough embarrassment, now you are calling JESUS A LIAR!

Do you see why your presence on DebateArt is all for naught? Huh?  Your bible ignorance is always in competition with other equally dumbfounded FAKE Christians like you, but yet, you perceive yourself as a Christian?  SURELY YOU JEST! LOL!

Doc Frank, after this ungodly act of yours, you should start smelling sulfur! I am so sorry, where Jesus is certainly making plans for you upon your Judgment Day because of your insolence towards Him while you were on earth.

Please, for the sake of your further embarrassment, remain silent, okay? Thanks. "Even fools are thought wise if they keep silent, and discerning if they hold their tongues." (Proverbs 17:28)


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