Left-Wing Libertarian? Can it be a thing?

Author: RationalMadman ,

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  • RationalMadman
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    I loathe government oppression, even when it benefits the people. I abhor taxing sugar to stop people having sugary drinks (especially when it's universal, affecting all having it even if they aren't obese or whatever). I abhor the government snooping in on private Internet conversations, controlling us via the media, censoring us beyond the severely graphic and/or threatening, and thinking it has a fucking damn right in hell to TELL US WHAT OUR RIGHTS ARE?!

    Yet, I do not at all agree with Ron Paul types on anything other than an innate 'chaotic gene' I call it. You're definitely born with or without it, I am certain of it. You are born a rebel, never ever raised or forced to become one. You are born a motherfucking rascal or you're not. I am a freedom lover by nature. I understand that anarchy becomes tyranny-by-the-strongest in no time at all, instead I seek a version of Progressive agenda that ties Social Democracy in with Libertarian core values.

    They are not contradictory at all. Nothing at all about Social Democracy requires us to censor each other or force affirmative action. If we focused so much more on equal opportunity instead of equal output we would be making things fair. To me, it's really simple; if a race, gender, creed, whatever else group, is better at something than others but despite this a race, gender, creed etc is being hired disproportionately in the face of what the statistics would imply based on potential in the pool of who is being hired, THEN you as a people, a nation of private investigators journalists who may ask for government assistance in the investigation but isn't dictated by them, should expose it and enforce affirmative action via boycotting.

    The people are the motherfucking power, NOT THE PEOPLE 'IN POWER' GIVEN TO THEM BY THE PEOPLE. That is not a right-wing Libertarian concept, it is a concept of any rebel, leftist or not.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @RationalMadman
    It's really hard to say because, before FDR, the left was pretty big on liberalism but now has authoritative government at the centerpiece of every policy.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Greyparrot
    No, it does not. This lie is most easily disproven by Nixon and Reagan. Obama took so much flack for using NSA techniques that Bush Jr. Okay'd and that were planned to go on since Nixon's era, but only had the legal loopholes in place to enable it via the Patriot Act that happened post-9/11.

    Authority and nanny-state censorship of media etc. were Republican concepts entirely. It was the Dems who wanted to give those against it more freedom, they've always been the friendlier party to anti-gov't groups and thats the only real reason why the KKK originally sided with the Dems, who were the more open party to a split-nation solution (Confederate States breaking off woth slavery legal while the North styed as US and abolished slavery). 

    It also, then, was the Dems who had to completely steer the Civil Rights Movement to get anything done whatsoever, since Lincoln had left a lack of slavery but plenty of subtle means of subtle apartheid.



  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Greyparrot
    What good is government unless it is authoritative? 


  • TheRealNihilist
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    --> @zedvictor4
    What good is government unless it is authoritative? 
    Good one. I guess he would say bad authoritative policies is what he opposes which he has to state what is. I am sure he is not against taxes, military, regulations etc.

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @zedvictor4
    What good is government unless it is authoritative? 

    Ask a libertarian.
  • Greyparrot
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    Good one. I guess he would say bad authoritative policies is what he opposes which he has to state what is. I am sure he is not against taxes, military, regulations etc.


    Against the overuses of all 3 of those things. Some people want US government to mirror EU nations that tax the poor at 40% and be at war with every nation including Russia. Some people want so much regulation a poor person has no chance to compete with the monopolies that control DC.

    "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."


  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Sorry to be graphic and blatant but anyone can take away what you want, even in anarchy... In graphic and sadistic ways, both severe and mild.

    Nothing changes with government, the 'could take it all away' is always there.
  • TheRealNihilist
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    Against the overuses of all 3 of those things. Some people want US government to mirror EU nations that tax the poor at 40% and be at war with every nation including Russia. Some people want so much regulation a poor person has no chance to compete with the monopolies that control DC.
    You didn't really answer my question.

    I'll present it in the standard format.
    What do you consider to authoritative policies?
    If there are good and bad ones which do you consider to be bad or good?

    "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."
    A government small enough to barely give anything you want is a government small enough to barely take anything you want.

    What is your point?

    I unblocked. Add me as a receiver next time.
  • billbatard
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    if you study history, 19th century you find  originally the idea to abolish government was a socialist / anarchist idea as the state was seen as protecting property rights and the wealthy.. the usa USA ironically invented the right leaning stupidity and kid napped the libertarian term and made it their own the irony was the left invented the idea minus the property fetish
  • billbatard
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    --> @Greyparrot
    then explain why life is best in nordic nations even corprorate sources conceed they are the bat freest places to live
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @billbatard
    What are bat freest places?
  • billbatard
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    best oh god are you a grammr nazi faggoti sthat it?
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @billbatard
    Are you really a 60 year old English speaking French man with a graduate degree?
  • billbatard
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    i went to law school also
  • zedvictor4
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    --> @billbatard
    Well.  If you just paid a bit more attention to the red squiggly lines, you would make a lot more sense.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @billbatard
    then explain why life is best in nordic nations even corporate sources conceded they are the bat freest places to live.
    More people are leaving those places to come to America than Americans are leaving to live there.

    It's so funny to hear all the people promising to move to Canada but then "suddenly" realize America is a much better place to live.

    If America was such a shithole, people would be climbing over the fences to fill up Nordic detention facilities.

    Of course, Norway has a zero-tolerance policy for illegal immigration meaning there are no sanctuary cities. There are very few illegal immigrants willing to remain in such a harsh environment. Norway also has a strict cultural integration policy along with merit-based immigration, which means you can forget about bringing your American values to Norway unless don't mind being shunned by the community.

    Norway at least has nothing to worry about.
  • RationalMadman
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    --> @Greyparrot
    People make dumb decisions all the time. The fact that the greedy moneychasers leave to America is a good thing for the societies in those nations. You can still be rich and successful in soc-dem societies, just less extremely so than in Capitalism-embracing ones.

    I know Nordic nations are Capitalist. They are, however, much closer to the ideals of Left-Wing ethos than most other societies (even Socialist ones).
  • Greyparrot
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    Not saying any of that isn't true, but people vote with their feet, which suggests your opinion might be in the minority.
  • Greyparrot
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    The fact that the greedy money chasers leave to America is a good thing for the societies in those nations.
    The problem with this sentiment is it also leads to brain drain as hyper-productive people leave to find a place where they feel wanted and needed.

    Regressive societies like America ensure people are rewarded for producing the things society needs for a high standard of living. Progressive Nations that punish productive people and reward unproductive people usually fall into an inflation trap as the GDP shrinks.

  • Athias
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    --> @RationalMadman
    In this system of "social democracy," would individuals be allowed leave to exercise their prerogative in exiting the system?
  • billbatard
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    no they arent thats absurd
  • billbatard
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    yeah move
  • bsh1
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    --> @RationalMadman
    I don't think libertarianism is left- or right-wing. It is it's own thing. I don't see why we should view the political spectrum as linear.

    A liberal wants government regulation of the economic sphere, but not of the private sphere.
    A conservative wants government regulation of the private sphere, but not of the economic sphere.
    A libertarian wants government regulation of neither.
    A statist/populist wants government regulation of both.
  • Athias
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    --> @billbatard
    yeah move
    Move where?