Will impeachment help or hurt the Democrats?

Author: dontstopmenow

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#61
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@HistoryBuff
Have you seen the latest fox polls for impeachment? They are already winning. 


If a pollster asked me if I was for an impeachment inquiry vote, I would say yes in agreement with the Whitehouse.

Even the Whitehouse wants this.

Pelosi clearly does not.
#62
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@HistoryBuff
But there is no rule that says they have to or even should do that. The dems have decided they don't need a vote to start the inquiry.


No there is no rule, but not having a vote means the Whitehouse can give them the middle finger.
#63
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@Greyparrot
If a pollster asked me if I was for an impeachment inquiry vote, I would say yes in agreement with the Whitehouse.
The fox poll was clear. 51% of voters want trump impeached and removed from office. Not just an inquiry.  6% weren't sure if he should be removed from office. 43% didn't want him removed from office. The majority already want him removed and there is likely still more evidence to come. We are only 2 weeks into the inquiry and the majority are already calling for his removal. This is terrible news for Trump. 


#64
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@HistoryBuff
I was listening to the MSM polls which have more credibility since they are in crony partnership with the DNC.

PBS/NPR poll has the most chilling stat here that explains why Pelosi can NOT hold a vote.

Q: If your representative from Congress votes to impeach President Trump, does this make you more likely to vote for them in 2020, less likely, or does it make no difference to your vote?

----------------------------More likely-- Less likely-- No difference--Unsure

Independent men ---12% -----------40% ----------48%---------------- 0%


Independent women 22% ----------22% ----------53% ----------------3%

Democrats------------- 42%---------- 6% 

Republicans------------ 5%----------- 67%


Independent men will flip the house in a heartbeat.

#65
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@Greyparrot
60% of independents are more likely to vote for a democrat who supports impeachment or simply don't care one way or the other. 40% would be less likely. That means that impeachment either helps or at a minimum has no impact for the majority of independents. Why do you think that is good news for you? And this is early on, more evidence is continuing to come out every day. This is not good news for trump. 

Did you also read the section where is says more than 50% will definitely vote against trump? 
#66
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@Mopac
You have that backwards.

They have been pointing to the crap on the wall disguised as wall, and asking "Does this amount to high crimes and misdemeanors yet?"

Uncovering what they President doesn't isn't throwing anything, its stepping in something.


#67
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@Greyparrot
"No there is no rule, but not having a vote means the Whitehouse can give them the middle finger." --- that is incorrect.  Any committee can subpoena anyone, and refusing it is refusing a Congressional Subpoena, no vote need be required.
#68
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@FaustianJustice
Congress has limited ability to enforce those subpoenas, with potential penalties for noncompliance ranging from holding them in contempt to issuing daily fines.

It's not a legal matter, it's a political matter. And a political matter without a house vote doesn't matter. No vote, no teeth.
#69
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"Congress has limited ability to enforce those subpoenas, with potential penalties for noncompliance ranging from holding them in contempt to issuing daily fines." --- I fail to see your defense here.  "Its a weak sauce punishment for breaking the law" is your argument?

Paragon of virtue, you are.
#70
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@FaustianJustice
Like I said, it's purely a political matter. But Congress's failure to vote on the inquiry means the GOP can just say the Dems are making up their own biased partisan inquiry with their own process rules.

Failing to vote on a formal inquiry means the Democrats aren't taking the process seriously.

That doesn't go over very well with independents.

#71
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@Greyparrot
"Like I said, it's purely a political matter. But Congress's failure to vote on the inquiry means the GOP can just say the Dems are making up their own biased partisan inquiry with their own process rules.

Failing to vote on a formal inquiry means the Democrats aren't taking the process seriously.

That doesn't go over very well with independents."


Yes, the GOP can and say a lot of things, none of which need be correct, such as how they can defy a subpoena because it doesn't feel serious.

Its illegal.  It doesn't need a punishment, and it only seems your morality is only as strong as a punishment makes a law.  

Paragon of virtue, you are.

#72
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@FaustianJustice
Its illegal.
Impeachment is a political process. Not a legal process.
#73
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@Greyparrot
Whatever that means and how its intended to be a defense is of course subject to your imagination.


#74
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@FaustianJustice
It means the House can do whatever the hell it wants to during the Inquiry. The Whitehouse can do the same. It's 100 percent political.
#75
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@Greyparrot
I honestly can't find anywhere in the Constitution that says anyone can defy a subpoena if a process is declared "political".

Conjure your way out of that, please.
#76
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@FaustianJustice
Because you're looking for the constitutional restrictions on an impeachment inquiry. Oh wait. There are none.
#77
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@Greyparrot
So your point sinks under your own admission: there are no restrictions, and there is nothing preventing some one from defying congressional subpoena.  Thanks for playing.

#78
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@FaustianJustice
Yep that's how politics is played. GG
#79
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Predict-it values took a nosedive this week and is probably in a free fall.

I do hope you bought up a bunch of "no" s like I did when it was valued at 26 cents.

#80
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@Greyparrot
hahah I didn't, I should have just for fun, hope you score big!
#81
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
You can still make money now at 32 cents just not as much.


#82
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Fun twist. Mick Mulvaney just confirmed there was a quid pro quo. Here is his exact quote:

"Did he also mention to me in passing the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about that. But that's it, and that's why we held up the money,"
He is saying they held up the money because of a conspiracy theory around a missing DNC server that they wanted Ukraine to investigate. When prompted by a reporter as to whether the money being withheld was to get an investigation into the DNC he responded with "we do that all the time with foreign policy."

This is a straight up confession. He confirmed they held up the money in order to get Ukraine to investigate the DNC. That is a quid pro quo. Ie. Ukraine gets the money and Trump gets dirt on his political rivals. 

So the crime tally is now

1) campaign finance violation. when trump asked for a thing of value, ie dirt on opponents, this was a crime. This is 100% confirmed by the partial transcript
2) Abuse of office - he used the power of his office to attempt to extort a foreign country so that he could influence an election in his favor
3) any potential crimes we find from the cover up. They are still working hard to bury this so there are likely crimes they have or will commit in their attempts to cover up their other crimes. 

This is getting worse for Trump by the day. 



#83
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@HistoryBuff
Impeach him then....oh wait
#84
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@ILikePie5
Impeach him then....oh wait
I don't understand your point. He is already in the process of being impeached. 


#85
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@HistoryBuff
You say he’s committed high crimes. You’ve listed them all. You’re 100% sure he committed a crime, so why hasn’t he been impeached yet.
#86
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@ILikePie5
You say he’s committed high crimes. You’ve listed them all. You’re 100% sure he committed a crime, so why hasn’t he been impeached yet.
That's like looking at a guy who is in jail waiting for the charges to be laid and saying, "well why hasn't he been convicted?". Trump committed crimes. Trump is getting impeached for those crimes right now. 

As for why it hasn't happened before now, it's because the democrats suck at getting information across. The mueller report showed trump committed at least 8 counts of obstruction of justice. But they really sucked at explaining that. So trump was able to win the narrative by just repeating "no obstruction" over and over and over and people just believed it. If you can't convince people that a crime occurred, then going forward with impeachment would be reckless. 

But now the crime(s) is quite clear. The crime is easier to understand for people who are only kind of paying attention. The question is just "did trump ask Ukraine for dirt on Biden?". If yes, then he committed a crime. Since we already know for certain the answer is yes, that is an easy case to make. So crime #1 is certain.

#87
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As for why it hasn't happened before now, it's because the democrats suck at getting information across. 

Lol, Trump has had a 90% unfavorability coverage rating for 3 years from crony corporate media. The gaslights are on full throttle 24/7 on MSM. 

Your theory that the Democrats need more than 90% unfavorable coverage of Trump sounds like a Hillaryesque cop-out.
#88
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@Greyparrot
Your theory that the Democrats need more than 90% unfavorable coverage of Trump sounds like a Hillaryesque cop-out.
You are highlighting my point. Even though trump committed numerous crimes and the media covered it, many people, seemly such as yourself, continue to believe that he didn't commit them just because trump repeatedly said he didn't. Even though the report says that he very clearly did. 

If the dems had done a better job getting that information across in their hearings, then perhaps the media would have been able to convince people that reality is.... well reality. Instead a large percentage of the population just chose to ignore reality and believe the lies of a conman. 


#89
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@HistoryBuff
So what threshold is going to be the tipping point where Pelosi has the votes to impeach in the house?

92% unfavorable coverage of Trump?

95% unfavorable coverage of Trump?

100% unfavorable coverage of Trump?
#90
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@Greyparrot
So what threshold is going to be the tipping point where Pelosi has the votes to impeach in the house?
92% unfavorable coverage of Trump?
95% unfavorable coverage of Trump?
100% unfavorable coverage of Trump?
I'm afraid I don't understand your point. The media covers Trump in a negative light, in large part, because he is constantly doing negative things. It's hard to give positive coverage to a man who commits crimes in office and violates the constitution. But I won't pretend like there isn't bias as well. 

They likely have the votes to impeach him now. I don't think Pelosi would have started the inquiry if she wasn't convinced she had sufficient support to carry through with it. But they don't hold a vote until they are done with the inquiry and have finished the articles of impeachment. Given that they have now admitted to, and then tried to walk back, the admission they the explicitly engaged in a quid pro quo with Ukraine, it is getting worse for trump every week.