To Touch The Risen Christ

Author: Stephen ,

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  • Stephen
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    Stephen
    I did sometime ago, raise the question of the bias shown by the risen Christ when allowing the men to touch him but not the women. It went something along the lines brought about by these verses:

    John 20:16- 17 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    But at Luke 24:39 he encourages his followers to touch to feel that he is not a ghost/spirit.

    Jesus then goes even further and implores "doubting Thomas" to:,  "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing John 20:27.

    The query at the time was  why did this risen so called "god" refuse the affection one person to touch him yet encouraged another to do the opposite?

    But all the above aside for a second  we simply have to consider this verse and why it must be taken into serious consideration . Notice the highlight bold & underlined.  
     
    Matthew 28:8-15 King James Version (KJV)
    8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
    9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail >>>> And they came and held him by the feet,<<<< and worshipped him.
    10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
    11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.
    12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
    13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
    14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
    15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

    There is not a single mention here about not touching him because he hasn't yet ascended to his father. Not, not a single hint of words of protest about the fact that they are holding him by the feet and he had not yet ascended. 

     I am of course expecting the usual "mistranslated" excuse for this very clear contradiction, where we will have the usual suspects telling me that what I am reading doesn't actually mean what it clearly does mean;  but really it means something entirely different to what is actually written in the scripture.  But it is plain to see that holding means touching. Touching means contact with someone or something else.


    And notice. In John above there is absolutely no mention that  Mary had even touched Jesus before his clear instruction for her not to touch him. .

  • ethang5
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    ethang5
    The query at the time was  why did this risen so called "god" refuse the affection one person to touch him yet encouraged another to do the opposite?
    Because....

    [He had] not yet ascended to [His] Father

    The reason is given in the verse jedthro!

    There is not a single mention here about not touching him because he hasn't yet ascended to his father.
    This was at a different time genius!

    So you ignore the reason given INSIDE the verse of why Jesus says "don't touch me" and smarmily imply its a gender issue, and then pick a later time and assume He still has not yet ascended.

    Why does your brain go off when you open a bible?
  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    Stop with your nonsense just for once and read the contradiction . I understand that these verses that I have highlighted are a complete embarrassment to the Christian world but they have to be explained with good sound fact and logic. Not by YOU simply trying to invent words, rewrite scripture or simply post more contradictory verses from the same contradictory source.

    There was absolutely no complaint or protest from by Jesus about being touched BEFORE acceding to his father  when the women literally and physically took hold of Jesus by the feet.

    Matthew 28:8-15 King James Version (KJV)
    8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
    9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail >>>> And they came and held him by the feet,<<<< and worshipped him.

    YET we have this from the gospel of John: 


    John 20:16- 17 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    There was absolutely no complaint or protest from by Jesus about being touched BEFORE acceding to his father...
    Since this was at a later time, how do you know He had not?

    You don't know. You simply assume, and then pretend your assumption is fact.

    Do you know the difference between your assumptions and reality?
  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    There was absolutely no complaint or protest from by Jesus about being touched BEFORE acceding to his father...
    Since this was at a later time, how do you know He had not?

    No it was not. The women had just fled from the tomb when they came across Jesus who had greeted them mid flight. It wasn't even hours after and certainly not days after. There was no mention or protest from him about not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to his father IN HEAVEN!!! 


    You are, in your desperation, clutching at straws and trying to invent things that are not even written into the scripture.  

    Do you know the difference between your assumptions and reality?

    I do, but you don't. The reality is what is the  REALITY of what written in the scripture and not what ISN'T written in the scripture. If anyone is assuming anything it is you.A as as can been seen, the scripture doesn't say the women met at another time or that they met the Christ after he had acceded to his father in heaven, but you want it to say that so attempting to make your assumptions REALITY! 


    You keep failing to explain the blatant discrepancies that I am highlighting and instead are choosing to re invent things that didn't happen and rewrite events .







  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Stephen
    Of course, it begs the question.

    Was Jesus gay?
  • ethang5
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    No it was not. The women had just fled from the tomb when they came across Jesus who had greeted them mid flight.
    This was the second group. How long had they been running? How far was their house from the tomb? Jesus had met the 1st group, the second group arrived later  and did not see Jesus or the 1st group. Then they meet Jesus on their way back. Yes it was later Shemp. Or do I need to give you the definition of "later"?

    It wasn't even hours after and certainly not days after.
    So what? It was later. If Jesus says at a certain time, don't delay me because I have not yet ascended, and does not say so at a later time, isn't it reasonable to think He had now ascended, instead of pretending there is a contradiction?

    There was no mention or protest from him about not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to his father IN HEAVEN!!! 
    How do you know He had not? If this was at a later time, is it not more reasonable to believe He made no objections because He had now ascended?

    You are, in your desperation, clutching at straws and trying to invent things that are not even written into the scripture. 
    Like what? It is true this was at a later time. I am taking exactly what is written in scripture. How long does an ascension take? How long should it have been before you would not find a contradiction?

    You are angry that I am exposing the illogic in your claim. The two instances are at different times. You don't know how much later the 2nd instance was. But it was later.

    Do you know the difference between your assumptions and reality?

    I do, but you don't.
    No, I do. That's why I'm able to bust you now on your assumption.

    The reality is what is the  REALITY of what written in the scripture and not what ISN'T written in the scripture.
    You are complaining of what is NOT written genius...

    "There was no mention or protest from him..."
    And this was at a different time, why should there have been any protest from Jesus? How long after would you find acceptable?

    If anyone is assuming anything it is you. as as can been seen, the scripture doesn't say the women met at another time
    It was at another time Cletus! Jesus had left the tomb. The 1st group of women had left the tomb, the second group of women had left the tomb, and no telling how much later they met Jesus.

    In those days, there were no cabs, people walked, and the fact that they started out before the sun rose, meant the distance was considerable. Stop being stupid to keep your lame claim afloat.

    ..or that they met the Christ after he had acceded to his father in heaven,
    The fact that He made no protest indicates that He had chester!

    but you want it to say that so attempting to make your assumptions REALITY! 
    You're the one assuming He hadn't so as to claim a contradiction.

    You keep failing to explain the blatant discrepancies that I am highlighting...
    You keep failing to show any. And I keep proving you wrong. You can claim I've failed, but the facts are there.

    ...and instead are choosing to re invent things that didn't happen and rewrite events
    There is no discrepancy Shemp. Jesus met the two groups at different times. You want to assume Jesus had still not ascended. Why? Because you have to assume this to be able to claim a discrepancy. 

    By this being later, and Jesus saying nothing about being touched, I deduce that He has already ascended. 

    What have I rewritten? Why do you think Jesus had not yet ascended by the time He meets the 2nd group of women?
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    aàaaaaaaaaaa ,  heel and toe , heel and toe.
    slide , slide , slide, slide 
    Swing steven round and round, back to middle. 

    Ethang ? They don't call Disco for nothing.
    And , clap , clap clap.

    But you are in front here. 

    Unless Stephen is currently running some test on accenting.
    And he comes back with a average accention time.
    You've ummmmm,  got him on that one. 

    And if Stephen cant find out where the women live. 
    Then time of the first party to the second. 

    You are asking to much.

    I don't know the answers to these questions myself. So not being bias, and hearing this from you two. 
    Learning about it from you two.

    From a layman's pov
    If you are both reading the same thing 
    It " Looks " like wellll.
    It looks like one of them old fashion contradictions. A contradiction.
    Well that is what i am observing. 

    You got God creating a universe and all that is pretty intelligently like. I'll give you that.
    But allllllllllll the intelligence goes out the window when god gets blokes to wriite some shlt down for him.   

    Ok So This is how your bible was made.
    In a real loud voice God Goes  ' Brendan ' 
    ' hey Brendan ' 
    Brendan goes,  ( hey is someone looking for me , is that you god? )
    God goes, ' Yes Brendan this is God ' 
    Brendan is like ( Hi GOD i love you what can i do for you.) 
    God goes. ' Can you write Brendan ' 
    Brendan goes ( unfortunately,  No sorry God. ) 
    God goes ' ok be kind to one another ' 

    In a real load voice god goes ' Eric '
    Same as above happens , eric can't do the writing thing either. 

    He gets to Frank , Frank says he can write. 
    God says write this down for me frank.  Frank goes ok  (  mattew 28 : 8  and so on. In a oddly worded way that we find it today. ) 

     





  • Stephen
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    This was the second group

    Stop it!  Again you are re writing the scripture attempting to edit in something that isn't even there. Every time you attempt your rewrite it raises even more questions not to mention more contradictions. 

    Second group my arse!  Look this was the same Mary Magdalene that Jesus told not to touch him 


    Matthew 28:1-15 King James Version (KJV)
    28 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.


    JOHN TELLS US IT IS THE SAME woman but contradicts also Mathew's version of events. 

    John 20:10-17 King James Version (KJV)
    10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
    11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
    12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
    13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
    14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
    15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.


    >>>>  17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.  <<<<<


    You are a complete and utter liar who simply cannot defend your corner against these blatant and obvious contradictions. You are a disgrace to yourself, your religious community, your church and your god and you are no better than those Muslims who will say anything and lie about anything to further the cause of their religious ideology. In short,  you are a disgrace.
  • ethang5
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    Stop it!  Again you are re writing the scripture attempting to edit in something that isn't even there.
    Please don't be stupid. Two groups of women set out that morning to put spices on the body. Jesus' mother was in one of the groups.

    The first group arrives and does not see Jesus, and they leave terrified that the body of Jesus has been stolen. Mary remains. Jesus appears. She is the one Jesus tells not to touch Him.

    The second group arrives and finds the tomb empty. Both Mary and Jesus have left the gravesite. Coming out of the tomb, they meet angels who tells them Jesus has risen. They run back to tell the disciples at the house, Jesus meets them on the way. They are overjoyed.

    Where is the contradiction?

    Every time you attempt your rewrite it...
    There is no rewrite Jed. Just you trying to force stupidity into the verses.

    Look this was the same Mary Magdalene that Jesus told not to touch him 
    Lol. No it wasn't Pedro. There were 3 Mary's in Jesus' posse. Mary His mother, Mary magdaline, and Mary Salome ( the sister of Martha) Your ignorance has misled you again.

    You are a complete and utter liar who simply cannot defend your corner against these blatant and obvious contradictions.
    What lie have I told? If I am lying, why are you dodging questions?

    You are ignorant of what you speak. Mary Magdaline was not among the women Jesus met on the road coming home.

    This is what happens when you take your info off an atheist website instead of from the bible.

    John doesn't contradict Matthew. John is one of the disciples Mary comes back to tell that the body of Jesus is missing. Matthew was not around then, so does not include the Mary meeting Jesus story whereas John does. It isn't a contradiction at all.

    Don't get so worked up. The bible is not a secret book. Anyone can look it up.

    But it appears your so called contradiction has morphed from Jesus saying Dont touch me, to Mary Magdalene.

    For the fourth time, what exactly do you think is the contradiction?
  • Stephen
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    Two groups of women set out that morning 

    Says who?  YOU, again?  yet another rewrite. 



  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    Says who?
    The Bible itself.

     YOU, again?  yet another rewrite. 
    Have you won many debates by being silly? Read your bible with your brain on.
  • Stephen
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    Says who?
    The Bible itself.

     YOU, again?  yet another rewrite. 
    Have you won many debates by being silly? Read your bible with your brain on.


    Your unnecessary insults will not win you an argument. You have a very poor understanding of your own scriptures ethang.  This maybe because you have never questioned anything about them in your life but simply sucked in every lying detail that your priests and teachers have told you. And because of that relentless indoctrination you fail EVERY TIME to defend your own statements not to mention being totally incapable of explaining away these biblical contradictions without lying, putting your own words into the mouths of the characters and authors of these scriptures and rewriting complete passages. You are a failure and have probably failed at everything in your life.
  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    And because of that relentless indoctrination you fail EVERY TIME to defend your own statements...
    Then why do you dodge my questions Hosea? Dodging questions is a hallmark of a person with a failed argument.

    Your goalposts ooze from one thing to another as I prove you wrong.

    Here, at first you say, Jesus didn't say "don't touch me". But so what? How is that a contradiction? You can't say. But you insist its a contradiction.

    Was Jesus supposed to say "don't touch me"? Why? What does it mean that He didn't? You dodge.

    I have not failed at showing that you are an illogical liar. You have deliberately posted false verses, and have not corrected the lie when exposed.

    You do not address rebuttals, you just stupidly repeat your debunked claim.

    You actually think you should be able to just post verses and then call them contradictory without challenge.

    Surprise!!