Marijuana Legalization

Author: jquill

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#31
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@DBlaze
There is a reason it is against the law. 
The question is are those reasons actually good? Do they actually address the problems they are suppose to or do they make them worse? The war on drugs has been going on for decades yet today they are more easy to obtain are far more potent. "Just Say No", the D.A.R.E program, mass incarceration - all massive failures to meet the goal they've set out.

You think people just arbitrarily make laws?
Arbitrary in the sense that there is literally no sense or purpose for the law to exist? No. But if by arbitrary you mean based on ones own personal whim and motivation regardless of the common good - it would be entirely ignorant to say anything other than yes, people do make arbitrary laws that only suit their interests. Bad and immoral laws can be passed, it's not that difficult. Republicans do it all the time.

We are not dogs that understand reward training more than discipline, that is why we don't get rewarded for not doing anything wrong.
This sentence does not logically follow. Humans are like any animal and are susceptible to reward training and cognitive feedback loops. In fact discipline is just a more sophisticated/mature feedback loop.

We understand the consequences of breaking the law.... if you don't want to go to jail, don't do it. It's that simple.
An unjust law is no law at all - and it is ones civic duty to protest such a law even if it means breaking it. It's obviously not that simple when you care out an exception for opinion users but condemn every other drug user - who's to say trying to medicate emotional pain with drugs is worse than trying to medicate physical pain? Clearly when one gets addicted after the pain is gone they're taking the pills for greater reasons than mere pain relief.

As for the article, you'll have to explain why certain aspects wouldn't work. So far your refutation of drug use has come down to a blind loyalty to the law and some vague appeal about divorce rates.
#32
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@Casual_Leftist
There are people out there that have never been caught with drugs, have no criminal record, but their lives have been directly ruined by them.  I know many of these people, in fact I have lived with quite a few of them, opened my doors to help them get back on their feet to no avail, have given them a free place to stay.  I live with one now that has lost her 4 kids, her income, her registration was lapsed which ended up ultimately losing her license, then her cars repossessed.  She is on the right track to getting her life back, but it will be another year or two before she can afford to house her kids, or even spend the night with them and relapse is always a possibility.  Having kids and subjecting them to that lifestyle without any consequences is beyond immoral. 

I don't think she is the only person in this situation.  I'm no stranger to empathy and understand how hard it is to break these habits, but I think if she had been in trouble with the law in the past, she would not be in the situation she is now.  She went beyond what her body could handle, checked herself into a psych ward, then they kicked her out, but she was nowhere near rehabilitated.  Just last weekend, she relapsed.  

I should kick her out but she will have nowhere to go.

#33
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@DBlaze
That subset of dregs will exist regardless of the legality of drugs - clearly the threat of jail time for possession isn't enough to deter. I've said b4 the demand will continue to exist in our society so long as the roots aren't addressed. Your charity is the best solution - but most will not be as generous as you. That's why we use the collective will of the People aka the Government to enact such programs of social welfare. Again the Nordic rehabilitation system instead of a mismatched psych ward or jail. But many lobbyists are against it.
#34
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@Casual_Leftist
There is also too much money circulation lost with decriminalization.  This is probably the main reason no one has adopted what you say seems to work elsewhere.  No fees going to the government, less arrests and fines by officers, money lost in jailing people, some lawyers would have to find new types of cases to take on.  It would be a major shift and many people would be hurt if this was enacted.  

The above is probably the main reason, but there may be cultural reasons of why it wouldn't work as well.  Just like I don't believe free universal healthcare would work in the US.  It may work for the time being in some Northern European Countries with supplemental wealth and revenue being generated from other sources by the Government.   But I think we will soon bare witness to the system failing once the money runs out and it backfires. Only time will tell.

It is tough to integrate an experiment and change our whole way of life... what if it doesn't work?  We would be back to square one after a huge shift.
#35
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@DBlaze
There is also too much money circulation lost with decriminalization.
Idk what this means. Are you talking about taxes compared to black market revenue?

No fees going to the government, less arrests and fines by officers, money lost in jailing people, some lawyers would have to find new types of cases to take on.  It would be a major shift and many people would be hurt if this was enacted. 
Legalization = taxes for the gov. The only people who are hurt are only people in the legal sense. I have no sympathy for corporate quasi citizens like those in the Prison Industrial Complex. Besides if general market theory is to be believed any jobs effected will be absorbed by the increase of other industries positively effected. We really do need more lawyers and public defenders on cases more important than simple drug possession cases. Fines from police, and the abusive act of civil forfeiture needs to stop.

Just like I don't believe free universal healthcare would work in the US.  It may work for the time being in some Northern European Countries with supplemental wealth and revenue being generated from other sources by the Government.   But I think we will soon bare witness to the system failing once the money runs out and it backfires. Only time will tell.
If by 'time' you mean "enough time for conservatives to murder any potential chance of European welfare style policy, and even if passed they'll sabotage it so they can justify killing it later like they did with the ACA" - then yea we'll see. But the youth, and Bernie Sanders, are fed up with the current market oriented society. The conservatives can complain all the want while their elected politicians pilfer SS and Medicare

It is tough to integrate an experiment and change our whole way of life... what if it doesn't work?  We would be back to square one after a huge shift.
Cultures do not shift all at once. The US is a large place, some regions are tolerant, and there are pockets of radicals. It's not like the US can get cultural whiplash - despite how schizophrenic US policy is with Trump. I think we all know the US is generally trending left even under Trump. Even after the Bill Clinton impeachment scandal the next election was so close it had to be decided by SCOTUS. 9/11 and the wars pretty much made Bush a guarantee 2 termer - but he was so unpopular he set the stage for the first Black President. 2 terms despite being called the anti-christ secret Muslim who wears a tan suit and likes mustard. The GOP turned to Russia for money and internet propaganda. Trump especially guilty of this. Trump/GOP need help to win, otherwise when high numbers turn out to vote is usually swing left - Bernie Sanders is a prime example of the power of that kind of position in the US. Even Jeff Bezos has stepped towards the light and made their all workers at least have $15/hour.

There will be no cultural shift fatigue. The US has already had one Progressive shift forward 100 years ago. We are now in the 2nd Progressive age - and age first marred by the ugly visage and evil right wing populism can do - but hark the left is growing. Mitch McConell is a crafty man though, he might win out over real humans/people.
#36
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Why is the right so evil?  Labels, grouping, victimization is the lefts way of justifying their needs, it has not changed since the days of slavery even though many say it has.  The more you get into the government running things, which encompasses universal healthcare and a larger shift to socialism, the more we all become slaves. 

But I don't call you evil, we just have a difference of opinion.  The left is so hostile.

And this business about supporters of Trump being mostly uneducated is a sham.  Everyone I know that hates Trump have no idea what is going on in the country, what policies are being made, how the economy has been boosted, and how Trump actually manipulates things to get what he wants accomplished, which were all promises he made during his campaign, no other president has followed through with campaign promises as much as Trump has in my lifetime... These people are not informed because they are listening to other people who are passing around what they have seen on biased news outlets.  All of these people are under-educated, and easily offended. 

McConnell is crafty, but Trump is even more crafty.  McCain was a big loss for the left. 

I really don't think your blue wave is coming.  There is a wave, but it is a wave from very loud people who get themselves in the spotlight and make it seem, to the people who agree with them, that there are 200 million in the same boat.

Jeff Bezos is behind the times.  He is all about the money, and people don't see that because he claims he is on the left.  Wallmart employees still make more money than his warehouse workers, but you don't see them on every news channel in the world.  This was a publicity stunt, and to raise $13.00 an hour to $15.00 is not that much, but better (but that is still crumbs to ...  It's a good thing for Amazon employees, but not a good thing for the whole country to have that min wage risen... It will just make everything more expensive, inflation will take it's toll, and it will all even itself out, in the end, no one will be better off.
#37
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@Casual_Leftist
Did you get my "crumbs" reference?