paying other countries to take migrants, or paying those who starve

Author: linate

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DBlaze
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@ravensjt
Ok.  If you are a citizen and you do not speak English, you do not have to do your civic duty of Jury Duty. 
Buddamoose
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Xenophobia is real

When you have a welfare state, you can't have open borders, or even a large amount of immigration. The nation goes bankrupt.. being anti-immigratoom does =\= xenophobia. Immigration is not a charity, no country is required to take in any migrants whatsoever, and most do not. 

Refugees are a different story, but still not required to take them all. Most countries take in barely any, for example, Canada scaled up their intake of refugees and the US scaled back. Guess which of the two still takes in more? That's right, the US. 

We have little girls dying in hospitals because of ridiculous privatized healthcare costs 
Oh, because of it you say? Curious how you explain the people who die in hospitals outside of the US? Hey, cause you have such an issue with privatized healthcare, which the US shouldn't even be classified as... let's take a look at Canada, where they just declared it a human rights violation to force a person into the socialised healthcare system and not be able to pay cash to get the treatment needed immediately. The case was Chaoulli v Quebec, and Chaouilli was in terminal condition but still being forced to wait. He paid cash, got the care he needed. This was the case that resulted from that. 

As always in Socialist countries, if you have money, you get treatment. If you don't, you wait. This is an issue even in more extreme versions such as China. Dying at the hospital is sad, don't act like it's an issue with privatized systems, when in socialised systems, you die waiting to even get into a hospital. 

athletes and entertainers making millions

And we're gonna need tens of trillions. But even beyond that, the US is the only country existent where atheletes and entertainers make big money?

exploiation of Mexico, Africa, middle East, Asia.

Boi, the US is so exploitative in our eandeavpurs that we rejected an offer for cheap ass oil from Saddam just to kick his ass back into Iraq. So exploitative we rejected the Luwaitis offer of purchasing oil on the cheap, and instead purchase it at or above market cost. 

Furthermore, it appears you mainly have a complaint against colonization. History check: turns out, colonial nation's spend more money on colonies then they get from them, and actually were very beneficial in many aspects. Like the US not having to pay for two wars when they were colonies of the British Empire(what do you think the tea and stamp taxes were for? Just to be oppressive for the fuck of it?)😂

Ex: It cost the UK more to have India as a colony than any money they got from it. Most of Africa pre-colonization hadn't discovered the wheel. Then US specific, Japan, South Korea, Phillipines, perform head and shoulders above less closer Asian countries, in the case of Japan and South Korea, a part of the economic elite of the world.


ravensjt
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@DBlaze
Ok.  If you are a citizen and you do not speak English, you do not have to do your civic duty of Jury Duty.  

You can be a citizen and get out of Jury Duty for:

Top 5 reason:

1. Personal Reasons
2. Economic Hardship
3. Family Issues
4. Felonies
5. Mental Incapacity 


None of the above are "beating the system" so why should someone who may be learning the language?

Buddamoose
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.it's an incomplete representation of our history without mentioning that we have been at War for 222 outta the last 239 years
And this is an incomplete representation of human history as a whole. Past 3,400 years and total peace for 268. We're batting the average LMAO

One thing I agree with Trump on is bringing more jobs back to America as to that would help the homelessness problem

Fixing the homeless situation has never been a priority in America

War on Poverty from the 70's onward anyone? 😂😂

Also, the homeless issue is in part tied to these shitty trade deals and immigration policy you would rather have. Most migrants are low skilled, this directly hits markets where the generally low skilled homeless and poor are most likely to find employment. Manufacturing also, where trade deals such as NAFTA sucked those jobs out of this country. 

You seem to have this opinion of America being sooooooo evil, and talking advantage of sooooo many. Even our one "colony"(Puerto Rico) is autonomous and remains annexed by choice. I wonder if the money that gets thrown their way, money that wouldn't be anymore if they voted to become fully independent, has anything to do with that choice to remain "annexed."

Undocumented immigrants contribute significantly to state and local taxes,collectively paying an estimated $11.64 billion a year..... And they commit  less crime than native born citizens

Meanwhile, as remittances(money sent out of the US economy) hit 69 billion in total in 2016 and continue rising....

On the matter of crime, the DoJ statistics recently released on border states that show a signifigamt amount of all federal criminal prosecutions in those states is devoted to illegal immigration.

Also, "commit less crime".... funny, last I checked all illegal immigrants are in the country illegally, as in committing a crime. That would mean 100% are criminals. Can't seem to find anywhere where it says 100% of US citizens are criminals. 
Then we would have to address how many crimes by illegals are unreported out of fear of repercussion to the person who reports it. 

Then we get into the study you are basing that off of. Do you understand that was a self reporting survey? As in it required those surveyed to be truthful and/or not exaggerate when it comes to crimes committed? 

Sorry, but I'll take concrete stats on populations and criminal prosecutions. 

The first report (GAO-05-337R) found that criminal aliens (both legal and illegal) make up 27 percent of all federal prisoners. Yet according to the Center for Immigration Studies, non-citizens are only about nine percent of the nation’s adult population. Thus, judging by the numbers in federal prisons alone, non-citizens commit federal crimes at three times the rate of citizens.

The findings in the second report (GAO-05-646R) are even more disturbing. This report looked at the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens that “entered the country illegally and were still illegally in the country at the time of their incarceration in federal or state prison or local jail during fiscal year 2003.” Those 55,322 illegal aliens had been arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and had committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien.

AsThis report only reflects the criminal histories of aliens who were in prison. If there were a way to include all crimes committed by criminal aliens, the numbers would likely be higher because prosecutors often will agree to drop criminal charges against an illegal alien if they are assured that immigration authorities will deport the alien[1]
Please do go on about how self reporting survey questionnaires outweigh concrete observed statistics. I must have missed the part in crit thinking and statistics that holds seeing 10 apples is false because/if somebody says there are only 2. 

Buddamoose
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I don't quite understand in regards to the OP, how throwing money at other nations to take migrants, is solving the issue that creates that migrancy in the first place. 

Wouldnt a better idea be to restrict illegal immigration, and open up H1-B visas for say education purposes. Then following that up with incentivizing returning back to native countries by offering say, low interest small business loans or the like? 

Another alternative, end the welfare state and open borders. Without a welfare state, you dont need to limit legal immigration, just vet for security purposes. I'm all down for that. Ending the welfare state and opening borders would likely sway migrants looking for a handout from not coming here, but keep the people who just want the opportunity, coming. Which would be 🔥💯👌
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@Buddamoose
What's also incredibly funny about the "illegals don't commit crime" theory is that they don't report the illegals ICE catches and deports that have a criminal record. Doh!.....it's okay though cause those illegal aliens never do any harm to the country BEFORE they get deported..AMIRITE???

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@Buddamoose

DBlaze
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@ravensjt
It's just a reason for immigrants not to learn the language, which does not help to give incentive, and it is an example of America being taken advantage of because we are so accepting others, but we don't like our own.  The American dream is now not the American dream.  It is now the immigrant dream of bringing their country into our country.... At least give us the ability to communicate with one another.    
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Immigrants should come here and embrace us, not the other way around.  If they like their heritage and their culture so much, why move here in the first place?  If we continue to do what we are doing, there will be little countries all over the US.  And these countries will look exactly like the countries that the immigrants in mass moved from.



ethang5
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@ravensjt
Do you think that Americans should give no money to any foreign entities for charity, trade or any other reason"?
Fake question.

Do you think that Americans should give no money to any foreign entities for charity, trade or any other reason until the needs of Americans are met"?

I win on the real question.

Your complaint was that they drain the economy when I said that they boost it.
Untrue. My complaint was that they should not be here at all. Anything after their illegality is moot.

Besides the cognitive dissonance displayed in those two statements,...
The only dissonance is from you trying to conflate taxation and socialism. And I am the one complaining that our tax dollars are being given to foreigners. It shouldn't be as long as there remain Americans in need.

Do you think Americans would be willing to make those sacrifices to be "America First and Only"?
You added in "and only". Why? America is making sacrifices now. So yes, I think Americans would be willing to do so.

And giving to foreigners via trade, made your lifestyle possible today Bro
Then it wasn't " giving" was it? It was trade, not charity.
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@ethang5
America was founded on neither illegal immigration nor the socialist welfare state. When people say make America great again, this is what they have in mind.

ravensjt
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Fake question.

Do you think that Americans should give no money to any foreign entities for charity, trade or any other reason until the needs of Americans are met"?

I win on the real question.

Naw Bro, your deflecting via a "slipper slope", you know forwell that no Country has ever claimed to have "all their needs met"

Mind you that we currently live in the richest, powerful most prosperous Country in the History of the World.... and you still are saying that all our needs arent being met!

  
Untrue. My complaint was that they should not be here at all. Anything after their illegality is moot

You from post #19:

Illegals should not be here in the first place. And talk about rose colored glasses! They are an overall drain on the economy through crime and social services.


The only dissonance is from you trying to conflate taxation and socialism. And I am the one complaining that our tax dollars are being given to foreigners. It shouldn't be as long as there remain Americans in need.

Taxation is taking money from everyone to help those less fortunate via Social Programs, Medicare etc......

Socialism is just an economic system in which things are distributed through the State from everyone collectively.

So yes, Taxation is a form of Socialism.... Have you never seen who refuse to pay taxes use that exact argument? Wasn't this the exact reason many people claimed that President Obama was a Socialist?


You added in "and only". Why? America is making sacrifices now. So yes, I think Americans would be willing to do so.
Because YOU said that nobody should be taken care of until all Americans are first. Sounds ugly when you read it back doesnt it?

And the "sacrifices" that America makes is exactly what you were complaining about!

Then it wasn't " giving" was it? It was trade, not charity.
Because you said you were against Imports (trade)

ravensjt
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@DBlaze
Immigrants should come here and embrace us, not the other way around.  If they like their heritage and their culture so much, why move here in the first place?  If we continue to do what we are doing, there will be little countries all over the US.  And these countries will look exactly like the countries that the immigrants in mass moved from
Embracing goes both ways... we should accept and they should make the attempt to adjust to our Country. Things like "Little China" and Arab and Indonesian areas throughout the Country is a benefit, not a negative.

People can use these areas to learn about other cultures, cuisines and people that they may never be able to visit


DBlaze
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@ravensjt
That has been the reason for Chinatown.... kids go there on field trips to see what it is like, that might be fine if it is built for that purpose, but not in random places throughout the US.  The reason for new additions like what you are referring to will be segregation.  

Drive up and down 355 from Frederick Md. to Washington DC, and you will see what I mean.  A grouping of shopping centers, retail, and residences ranging from apartments to condos for up to 5 blocks are dedicated to certain ethnicity, one area will be Indian, one area will be Korean, another will be Ethiopian or Indonesian, where everyone only speaks their own language.  People outside of these ethnicity do not venture in quite often. 

They even have their own banks. For instance Great Wall (a Supermarket), I don't think I need to say from what country, is right next to the Asia Bank, which is huge.  Which then is backed up by a shopping center with all Asian food, and Asian catered businesses with names that only people that can read the language know what they are and what they do.  This has all happened in the past 5 years.  Think about what will happen in the next 10 or 15 years.

For people to move in to these places, other people have to move out.  Guess who is moving out.
ravensjt
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@DBlaze
That has been the reason for Chinatown.... kids go there on field trips to see what it is like, that might be fine if it is built for that purpose, but not in random places throughout the US.  The reason for new additions like what you are referring to will be segregation. 
So is your solution that they should get rid of ChinaTowns etc ?



Drive up and down 355 from Frederick Md. to Washington DC, and you will see what I mean.  A grouping of shopping centers, retail, and residences ranging from apartments to condos for up to 5 blocks are dedicated to certain ethnicity, one area will be Indian, one area will be Korean, another will be Ethiopian or Indonesian, where everyone only speaks their own language.  People outside of these ethnicity do not venture in quite often
I'm from Baltimore so I know where you mean. I dont know why their presence affects you


They even have their own banks. For instance Great Wall (a Supermarket), I don't think I need to say from what country, is right next to the Asia Bank, which is huge.  Which then is backed up by a shopping center with all Asian food, and Asian catered businesses with names that only people that can read the language know what they are and what they do.  This has all happened in the past 5 years.  Think about what will happen in the next 10 or 15 years.

In 20 yrs, Whites will be a minority in America.... so this is gonna be the future.
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@DBlaze
The isolation of cultural ghettos from the mainstream city can be quite harmful. Ghettos create artificial barriers that impede critical opportunities for trade and the exchange of ideas, and this deprives residents of the key advantage of living in an urban setting. In addition, segregation impedes the rest of the city from developing advantageous financial, employment, business, and cultural contacts with the ghettoized group. The isolation creates political in-fighting for scarce resources with no sense of unified purpose or charity toward any other cultural ghetto, or mainstream America. A divided nation is a weaker nation.
Greyparrot
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Also, before Britain colonized America, America was a large mixture of cultural ghettos. You can see how that ended for the Indians. It will end the same for America today if it reverts back to how it looked 600 years ago.
DBlaze
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@ravensjt
Because some of them can't read the road signs.  I saw an old Asian woman almost get smashed the other day by a car because she walked when it said don't walk.  Now this might be just because she is old, and could have happened to anyone, but I really don't think so.  She had no idea.  This is a very busy intersection, and it isn't the first time I have seen this.

Whites are a minority here, you said you know the area, not because more people are coming in but also because more whites are moving out.  There are many reasons why it affects me, most would take too long to explain... but the main thing is customer service in stores, drive through's, and other entry level positions where the only requirement to speak English; is way too much to ask.   No longer are the positions being held by kids trying to learn how to work and make an extra buck for spring break.  It is now by people who can't speak English in these humongous stores that you can't find anything in, and they a jam-packed with thousands of people that throw things around making it even harder to find what you are looking for.

I tried to ask an employee at wall mart where the laundry baskets were in the store, she didn't know what I was talking about, then I said hamper, she pointed to an isle that had nothing to do with what I was asking, I moved on, up and down isles until I found them.  

I went to CVS the other day looking for the condiments (I admit kind of in a hury), asked a clerk and they didn't know what I was looking for, then I went more specific with Mayonnaise, and they still didn't know, then came Ketchup, and finally they understood.  That is when I knew I had had it.

18 days later

linate
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@ethang5

isn't it all about priorities? the funds i'm proposing are extremely minor in the bigger scheme of things.

we could probably even do things i'm proposing with the aid money we have now but only spent more wise..... i can't see a reason you'd oppose that?

i guess you can legit argue we spend too much, but that doesn't mean we can't spend more on things that matter, or get spending better in line and then spend that aid money i'm proposing. society and a lot of us have decided that no every ill problem that affects the usa citizens needs to be addressed. so just because there will always be problems with our citizens doesn't mean we can't help other countries too. humanity doesn't have a border.... massive problems elsewhere trump more minor problems here. 
ethang5
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@ravensjt
Fake question.

Do you think that Americans should give no money to any foreign entities for charity, trade or any other reason until the needs of Americans are met"?

I win on the real question.

>Naw Bro, your deflecting via a "slipper slope", you know forwell that no Country has ever claimed to have "all their needs met"

Because there are always people like you who want to take their money and give it to others. Why?

>Mind you that we currently live in the richest, powerful most prosperous Country in the History of the World.... and you still are saying that all our needs arent being met!

Because there are people like you who take our money and give it to others. Why?

My complaint was that they should not be here at all. Anything after their illegality is moot

>Your from post #19:
Illegals should not be here in the first place. And talk about rose colored glasses! They are an overall drain on the economy through crime and social services.

Look at the first sentence again.

The only dissonance is from you trying to conflate taxation and socialism. And I am the one complaining that our tax dollars are being given to foreigners. It shouldn't be as long as there remain Americans in need.

>Taxation is taking money from everyone to help those less fortunate via Social Programs, Medicare etc......

That may be what you like to tell yourself, but that isn't what tax is. And some people in America are exempt from paying taxes.

>Socialism is just an economic system in which things are distributed through the State from everyone collectively.

Different from tax. Thank you.

>So yes, Taxation is a form of Socialism....

No sir, it isn't. It's a fake definition you use to introduce socialism to people who don't want it. Taxes pay the operating costs of a society, socialism redistributes wealth from people who are productive to people who leech off of society.

>Have you never seen who refuse to pay taxes use that exact argument? Wasn't this the exact reason many people claimed that President Obama was a Socialist?

He was. He wanted to take money not his, and give it to others not producing. And as you see, the people rejected that socialist nonsense.

You added in "and only". Why? America is making sacrifices now. So yes, I think Americans would be willing to do so.

>Because YOU said that nobody should be taken care of until all Americans are first.

That doesn't mean never sir. It means not until…

>Sounds ugly when you read it back doesnt it?

No. It sounds deceitful. I don't have to change what you say to make my point.

>And the "sacrifices" that America makes is exactly what you were complaining about!

Then it wasn't " giving" was it? It was trade, not charity. And let Americans themselves choose their sacrifices, not have liberals choose for them.

>Because you said you were against Imports (trade)

Untrue. I said many imports would not be needed if we got all Americans to work. I have no problem with imports or trade. I have a problem with liberals giving away the people's money to strangers when the people still have needs.

it's their money. They do not need to justify keeping their own money. They commit no crime in keeping their own money. No one else is entitled to their money. And as we kick out the liberals, more and more of the peoples money will stay with the people
ethang5
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@linate
isn't it all about priorities? the funds i'm proposing are extremely minor in the bigger scheme of things. 
All the priorities should be American.

we could probably even do things i'm proposing with the aid money we have now but only spent more wise..... i can't see a reason you'd oppose that?
I don't oppose that, as long as we've taken care of Americans first.

i guess you can legit argue we spend too much, but that doesn't mean we can't spend more on things that matter, or get spending better in line and then spend that aid money i'm proposing.
True, but we all know what things "matter" to liberals. Let's take care of Americans first and talk about the aid after.

society and a lot of us have decided that no every ill problem that affects the usa citizens needs to be addressed. so just because there will always be problems with our citizens doesn't mean we can't help other countries too. humanity doesn't have a border.... massive problems elsewhere trump more minor problems here. 

Society has not decided this. We can take care of Americans first. If there is anything left over, sure help little Fatima. But not before.
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@Greyparrot
How many?
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@Greyparrot
Ask the natives about your illegal immigration, funny as.
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@ethang5
Th 1% could house clothe and feed all the homeless in america without even noticing a change in their bank balance, why don't they want to put america first, why do they spit on the less fortunate and why do the pseudo christians applaud their and your hypocrisy? 
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@disgusted
@openborders is suicide
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@Greyparrot
Is that what you learned from the native americans? When do you intend giving their country back to them.
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@disgusted
When they stop having open borders of course.
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@Greyparrot
They didn't have open borders, your ancestors illegally crossed their borders. Get rid of all illegals you say? Can you find a country that will take you given your track record?
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@disgusted
Th 1% could house clothe and feed all the homeless in america without even noticing a change in their bank balance, why don't they want to put america first, why do they spit on the less fortunate
Because you liberal commie pinkos are never done. You want ALL their money. The problem is your illogical thought processes. You actually think other people's money belongs to you.

....and why do the pseudo christians applaud their and your hypocrisy? 
How is it hypocrisy to keep your own money? Here, read my lips.

It.is.not.your.money.brainiac.



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@ethang5
The worlds resources belong to the world's people, not the parasites who take it all.. Here's a prophesy for you there will be a worldwide revolt and the rich will be slaughtered. You'd better take note because their sycophant supporters will not be spared. Spread the word. bwuahahahahaha
ethang5
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Idiot morons have been talking about this world wide revolt since Trotski, Mao, and Pol pot.

The world's resources belong to those who work for them, not dolts who don't work and don't produce.


It.is.not.your.money.mooch.