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@TheRealNihilist
All I am saying is that the very people making these poor choices also happen to be poor. There is something else going on.
Berniebros get mad. Don't know if there is a lot on this site in the first place
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@Greyparrot
Like what?All I am saying is that the very people making these poor choices also happen to be poor. There is something else going on.
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@TheRealNihilist
Something along the lines of an instant gratification culture over an invest in yourself culture. You know, the REAL reason why Asians are better at everything?
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@TheRealNihilist
I didn't think you actually didn't want to help people. It just goes to show if my person is saying it, it is okay but if someone who I am opposing is saying it then it is bad.
This is one of the main flaws I see from "centrists". They can't see the difference between helping people and controlling people. Providing universal health care that covers everything and lets them go to any doctor they want gives people more freedom and helps them at the same time. People who want to think they are progressive, like bloomberg, want to "help" but don't actually care what the people they are "helping" want. So you get things like banning drinks which does nothing to help anyone (they can still buy 2 if they want more sugary drinks).
If he really thought there was something wrong with those beverages, go after billionaires selling them. Work to improve the financial situation of the people buying them so they can afford better food while providing education of making better food choices. Don't attempt to hurt poor people who can't afford a healthier vice. If he actually cared about fixing the problem then he is an idiot, because that method won't work.
They are stupid. No one with a sane mind decides to have kids with such shit conditions but poor people time and time again keep doing it thus repeating the poverty cycle.
Another example of the failure of neo-liberalism. Blaming poor people for being poor while more and more of the wealth is being moved to the top. It must be the lazy poor person working 60 hours a week. It couldn't possibly be the fault of the multinational corporation paying their workers as little as possible while raking in record profits. It's so much easier to just blame the poor person than to fix the system that made them poor. Centrists want to believe the system is fine, poor people just need to work harder. Meanwhile the middle class is shrinking while the top 400 individuals own more than the bottom 150 million.
Basically anyone who isn't a socialist is a right winger. Lol.
Bloomberg is a weird mutant of right wing economics and left wing social identity politics. Basically, he can only appeal to the tiny slice of rich white people who want to feel like they are progressive, but don't actually want to fix the broken economic system that has made them wealthy.
I didn't know the mayor had the power of the president to enact laws.
We are discussing him as a presidential candidate. It is perfectly valid to frame my criticism in that context.
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@HistoryBuff
Remember when you said I didn't give you an argument about Bernie? I have so do talk about instead of pivoting.
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@Greyparrot
What do you think can help the culture and what is causing the problems? Specifics would be helpful.Something along the lines of an instant gratification culture over an invest in yourself culture. You know, the REAL reason why Asians are better at everything?
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@TheRealNihilist
Remember when you said I didn't give you an argument about Bernie? I have so do talk about instead of pivoting.
Which argument do you mean? You showed a video where he talked about 1 specific policy, then a video where he talked about immigration in general. those 2 videos were not contradictory. He is against the "guest worker" program which is basically just using people then discarding them before you have to provide actual benefits or raises. He is for immigration reform. Part of which is getting rid of the "guest worker" program.
those 2 things are totally aligned.
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@TheRealNihilist
I think much of the problem is with corporate America raising most of the children through TV and I-phones.
Only the immigrants that brought strong nuclear family beliefs with them like Asians seem to have a chance.
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@HistoryBuff
Blaming poor people for being poor while more and more of the wealth is being moved to the top. It must be the lazy poor person working 60 hours a week.
People who make poor lifestyle choices will invariably end up with less wealth. That's not even debatable.
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@Greyparrot
People who make poor lifestyle choices will invariably end up with less wealth. That's not even debatable.
People who live in a broken economic system and weren't born rich will almost certainly end up with less wealth. This shouldn't be debatable, but sadly right wing people and some "centrists" cling to the belief that it should be totally normal for a tiny number of billionaires to control the majority of the wealth of a nation. And that "anyone can succeed if they work hard" despite the fact that a vary large number of people don't succeed, despite working hard. These "centrist" people are either complicit, in the sense that the system worked for them personally and therefore they don't think it should be changed, or simply blind or ignorant and just ignore the reality of the ever widening gulf between the ruling oligarchs and the rest of society.
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@HistoryBuff
I found your response. Didn't realize you responded.
The argument would have some validity, but is over simplified. There are many other aspects to it. Blaming immigration is mostly a scapegoat.
I am saying if you cared about American workers like Bernie Sanders admits would that be a good case against immigration? Don't scapegoat by giving other policies only saying yes or no to this.
He never says he is against immigration.
This has got to be a joke. Have you heard of an implication or how arguments can work for other positions?
If most of them are being forced back to their home country then they weren't immigrants. They were temps being used in lieu of paying workers more.
How about the 6.6% it helped why not improve instead of abolishing it?
He said he wants to remove it. He also has plans for immigration reform. That clip was just him discussing a bill he opposed. No one asked him about what his plan was. Just because a short clip doesn't show him talking about his alternative does not mean he doesn't have one.
Can you find the video or I am supposed to believe you on faith?
Taxation is not exploitative. You are getting services for what you are paying. You get schools, roads, firefighters. The tax codes are decided by the elected representatives of the people.
Are you telling me the business doesn't make more money off of you then they do working and don't you think the government makes a ton of money of people that helps them?
A quick google search tells me he openly advocates hate and fear of immigrants.
But did he say "he is against immigration"?
You don't win swing states by advocating for failed neo-liberal policies that have ruined lives. That is a great plan to keep people home on election day and let trump win. You win them by promising you have a vision to fix their problems and getting people out to vote. Sanders is the best positioned to do that.
This is assuming people care about policy they don't. They care about buzzwords like free college or worked with Obama. Do you accept that?
About the swing states, I forgot all the polls point to any Democrat in the lead but there are 8 swing states so it can go either way. I am going to drop this point.
I don't know precisely what his opinions on immigration were 15 years ago. maybe you are right and he was against it. But I do know that taking one sentence out of a conversation he had about a specific program and applying it to mean his opinion of the broader question of immigration is an extremely weak argument.
Please read what I said again. I carefully used my words and I will quote the important part of it.
First point is that we shouldn't have immigrants because they lower the wages of American workers. This is "heavily implied" given this very same can be used against immigration.
You didn't actually attack my reasoning instead said well this was 15 years ago and like before he was talking about guest workers programs so by talking about a specific immigration policy he is against it but I can't extrapolate that into the general topic of immigration.
He has a numerous plans for how to improve wages for american workers. Just because he knows that immigration is not the main problem does not mean he is somehow ok with lowering wages.
Are you denying he is pro lowering wages but that goes against his 2007 clip where he said he cared about american wages which is why he is against a specific immigration policy?
I'll repeat what I said again:
"he is willing to lower the wages of American workers during that time and that is if he is able to pass the law not fail and continue to lower American wages."
You did not attack the point. I am not the one pivoting here. Instead of talking about this very real conclusion if he is in office you instead talk about other policies. Are you intentionally avoiding because you know this goes against him not being for lowering American wages in the 2007 clip?
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@Greyparrot
What are these beliefs?nuclear family beliefs
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@HistoryBuff
It doesn't matter what most unbelievable utopia you can fantasize about. There are always people that are going to live there that make poor lifestyle choices. The poor will ALWAYS be with you.
The only way to eliminate the poor is to eliminate choice. Is that what you want?
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@TheRealNihilist
I am saying if you cared about American workers like Bernie Sanders admits would that be a good case against immigration? Don't scapegoat by giving other policies only saying yes or no to this.
The guest worker program is a bad program. It allows companies to bring people in and use them for low wages, then discard them before they would have to pay more. That is not immigration. That is exploitation.
Actual immigration is not the reason wages are low. Wages are low because the economic system we live in has been designed by oligarchs who like not paying high wages. Scapegoating immigrants won't help anyone. Reforming the system, like sanders intends to, will.
This has got to be a joke. Have you heard of an implication or how arguments can work for other positions?
But he isn't advocating for those positions. He is saying that this 1, specific program is bad because it is exploitative and drives down wages. You are trying to take that out of context and claim that he is making an argument about immigration in general, which he isn't. You are ascribing something to him which he is not saying.
How about the 6.6% it helped why not improve instead of abolishing it?
The program itself is flawed and designed to be abused. I provided a link already for his immigration policy. Those reforms are intended to fix the system. If people can actually immigrate normally then you don't need a exploitative "guest worker" program. His intention is to replace it with a functional immigration system.
Can you find the video or I am supposed to believe you on faith?
What video? You provided a video where he doesn't discuss immigration, he discusses the guest worker program. Here is a link to his immigration policy, again.
Hmm, interesting. The popular usage of that term implies negative intent. If that is the definition we should be using then the world has no meaning because pretty much every action anyone has ever taken would be exploiting. And once everything is exploitative, then it is meaningless.
But did he say "he is against immigration"?
no, he said he is against that particular bill because of the guest worker program. Please stop repeating that lie.
This is assuming people care about policy they don't. They care about buzzwords like free college or worked with Obama. Do you accept that?
No, this is yet another failed neo-liberal hold over. People vote for lots of reasons, but one of the biggest is voting for someone who will make their lives better. Neo-liberals found that they could convince people they would do something good for them if they just used the right buzz words. But that they didn't have to actually carry through on those promises. And it worked, for awhile. It worked for Obama too. But then the dems lost 1000 seats during his presidency because he didn't actually carry though on the things he promised. People have figured out the game. Neo-liberals will just keep spouting platitudes while refusing to do anything meaningful to help people. It isn't about the buzz words, it is about people believing you will do something to help them. People are now understanding that the buzzwords are meaningless, which is why centrists have shit support among young people who group up seeing the broken system.
First point is that we shouldn't have immigrants because they lower the wages of American workers. This is "heavily implied" given this very same can be used against immigration.
Sorry, do you mean Sanders thinks we shouldn't have immigrants (because he definitely didn't say that) or you think we shouldn't have immigrants? He didn't imply it either. He was specifically talking about the guest worker program. You are trying to imply that is what he meant, when he didn't say that.
You didn't actually attack my reasoning instead said well this was 15 years ago and like before he was talking about guest workers programs so by talking about a specific immigration policy he is against it but I can't extrapolate that into the general topic of immigration.
I'm not certain I am understanding your point. If you mean the idea that there should be no immigration, that is an utterly stupid idea. America cannot survive without immigration. Only idiots or bigots would advocate that.
I never implied this was 15 years ago and therefore wasn't important. I said you have provided absolutely no evidence of Sanders' beliefs on immigration. none at all. i was saying that you might be right. maybe he did think immigration was bad, but you haven't provided any evidence of it yet. The only evidence you have provided is a video of him talking about something only sort of related to immigration in which he says nothing about what his opinion of immigration is.
"he is willing to lower the wages of American workers during that time and that is if he is able to pass the law not fail and continue to lower American wages."You did not attack the point.
It's hard to specifically attack a point that doesn't seem to make any sense. He has never, to my knowledge, said that he is willing to lower wages. So you are ascribing things to him i have never heard him say and that you have not provided any source for. If he has said he wants to lower wages, please provide a source.
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@HistoryBuff
That is not immigration. That is exploitation.
Didn't state how this isn't immigration. Immigration can be exploitation so you are going by a definition that excludes exploitation.
Immigration: is the international movement of people to a destination country of which they are not natives or where they do not possess citizenship in order to settle or reside there, especially as permanent residents or naturalized citizens, or to take up employment as a migrant worker or temporarily as a foreign worker.
As you can see no exclusion of exploitation is given.
Actual immigration is not the reason wages are low. Wages are low because the economic system we live in has been designed by oligarchs who like not paying high wages. Scapegoating immigrants won't help anyone. Reforming the system, like sanders intends to, will.
What so illegal immigration doesn't count? Please tell me what this "actual" immigration is and if you say well worker programs then you are contradicting the very first statement I quoted from you. Choose your words wisely like how you didn't here.
What video?
"That clip was just him discussing a bill he opposed. No one asked him about what his plan was." Are you implying here that he is for creating an alternative or wants to abolish it?
And once everything is exploitative, then it is meaningless.
Not the case. We call everything matter. Is that meaningless? No. We call everyone humans. Is that meaningless? No. I gave you a definition and you come back to me with that essentially applies to everything therefore meaningless. Do you have an actual argument against the usage or are you finally going to stop misrepresenting a definition?
no, he said he is against that particular bill because of the guest worker program. Please stop repeating that lie.
Nick Fuentes? You know this is was directed about Nick Fuentes right not Bernie Sanders.
but one of the biggest is voting for someone who will make their lives better.
Doesn't disagree with me. People love nostalgia which is why people would vote for Biden instead of Bernie.
He didn't imply it either. He was specifically talking about the guest worker program. You are trying to imply that is what he meant, when he didn't say that.
I can't believe you don't know what an implication is.
Okay the occasion is that immigrants depress American wages which seems to suggest that immigration is bad. This is a clear link.
Another example:
Dumbass says Spider-man 2 is bad because Spider man is in it. The obvious take-away would be Spider-man is in 1 and 3 therefore they all must be bad as well.
This is exactly what Bernie did.
Bernie says workers programs import immigrants that depress American wages. The obvious take-away from this is that Immigrants are not only attained through worker programs so they all must depress wages.
I'm not certain I am understanding your point. If you mean the idea that there should be no immigration, that is an utterly stupid idea. America cannot survive without immigration. Only idiots or bigots would advocate that.
Just read what I said just above this.
If Bernie cares about Americans and wants what is best for them then Bernie is an idiot and bigot for being against immigration. America can survive without immigration but will it thrive without immigration? Doubtful. I am not accepting this to be true for the sake of argument like what I did with immigrants depressing wages.
I never implied this was 15 years ago and therefore wasn't important.
Do you still stand by this statement after I taught you what an implication is?
He has never, to my knowledge, said that he is willing to lower wages.
So he is against immigration?
I didn't say Bernie will put in laws to lower the minimum wage or something, I said by accepting what Bernie Sanders says his policies being pro-immigration will go against the very argument he gave in a 2007 clip that heavily implies he is against immigration or people who would be listening are not in the wrong to say immigration is bad by what Bernie said. This means he has changed his mind or you are going to say all the policy proposals are lies.
Announcer: are you going to die?
Bernie: Come to special event in NYC!
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@TheRealNihilist
Bernie says workers programs import immigrants that depress American wages. The obvious take-away from this is that Immigrants are not only attained through worker programs so they all must depress wages.
Are you against some immigration and worker programs to an extent because of said depression of wages?
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@TheRealNihilist
Didn't state how this isn't immigration. Immigration can be exploitation so you are going by a definition that excludes exploitation.
I answered this in a previous response. If you are deporting them back to the country they came from when you are done with them, then they weren't an immigrant, they were a temp.
What so illegal immigration doesn't count? Please tell me what this "actual" immigration is and if you say well worker programs then you are contradicting the very first statement I quoted from you. Choose your words wisely like how you didn't here.
By actual immigration i mean people moving to america with the intention of remaining there. The guest workers are being sent back, IE they aren't real immigrants, they are just guests.
"That clip was just him discussing a bill he opposed. No one asked him about what his plan was." Are you implying here that he is for creating an alternative or wants to abolish it?
those are the same thing. Once you fix the immigration system, you no longer need a "guest worker" program.
but one of the biggest is voting for someone who will make their lives better.Doesn't disagree with me. People love nostalgia which is why people would vote for Biden instead of Bernie.
Old people will, yeah. as you go lower than 65 that ratio shifts to bernie. If younger people show up to vote, and 2016 suggests they will, then relying on retiree's to carry you through isn;t a solid strategy. Also, it wouldn't work in the general election because the people Biden would need to win would likely just stay home since he doesn't care about them. He has told multiple people, on separate occasions, at his rallies to vote for other people. He isn't even really pretending like he cares about what people think.
I can't believe you don't know what an implication is.
I know what an implication is. The problem is that he did not imply that. You are choosing to infer it based on your own biased viewpoint. You want to see him as a flawed candidate so you choose to see a statement about the guest worker program as evidence of his opinion on immigration.
Dumbass says Spider-man 2 is bad because Spider man is in it. The obvious take-away would be Spider-man is in 1 and 3 therefore they all must be bad as well.This is exactly what Bernie did.
He said a specific policy hurts workers and drives down wages. You think that means he really meant that immigration is bad. That is a big stretch.
Bernie says workers programs import immigrants that depress American wages. The obvious take-away from this is that Immigrants are not only attained through worker programs so they all must depress wages.
This is a pretty good example of how centrists defame progressives. Bernie criticized a specific policy because it takes advantage of workers. You take that sentence out of context to defame him. This is no different that trying to say that Tusli is a russian operative or one of the countless slanders against yang. You are reaching for anything you can find no matter how thin it is.
If Bernie cares about Americans and wants what is best for them then Bernie is an idiot and bigot for being against immigration.
He never said he was against immigration! We are really circling around and around. You keep repeating he is against immigration. The only evidence you have provided is 1 offhand comment from 15 years ago where he wasnt even talking about immigration. Do you not see how pathetic this looks?
Do you still stand by this statement after I taught you what an implication is?
You didn't teach me anything. He did not imply what you are saying he did. You are choosing to infer what you want to infer.
So he is against immigration?
I have never seen any evidence of that.
I didn't say Bernie will put in laws to lower the minimum wage or something, I said by accepting what Bernie Sanders says his policies being pro-immigration will go against the very argument he gave in a 2007 clip that heavily implies he is against immigration or people who would be listening are not in the wrong to say immigration is bad by what Bernie said.
Immigration isn't the cause of low wages. So no, they are in no way contradictory. You seem to just be repeating talking points over and over no matter how many times I answer them.
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@bmdrocks21
It is an assumption I accepted for this conversation. Personally from what I found wages barely drop and the positive outweigh the negatives.Are you against some immigration and worker programs to an extent because of said depression of wages?
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@HistoryBuff
If you are deporting them back to the country they came from when you are done with them, then they weren't an immigrant, they were a temp.
You just moved the goalposts instead of making your point about exploitation you have changed it to well they weren't permanent residents. Are you aware of this?
By actual immigration i mean people moving to america with the intention of remaining there. The guest workers are being sent back, IE they aren't real immigrants, they are just guests.
Guess 6.6% of the people who have had permanent residence are not actual immigrants. I'll wait for you to deport those Americans/immigrants back to wherever they came from.
those are the same thing. Once you fix the immigration system, you no longer need a "guest worker" program.
Abolishing a system which brought in immigrants is decreasing the amount of immigrants America receives. I didn't hear of a re-appeal or an improvement so lets say 6.6% was annually. Meaning you are pretty much advocating for a system that is brings in less immigrants without instituting an alternative. No 16 years doesn't count if he does get elected and if he is able to pass it in his first year. I am ready for you excuses
Old people will, yeah. as you go lower than 65 that ratio shifts to bernie.
Data.
I know what an implication is. The problem is that he did not imply that. You are choosing to infer it based on your own biased viewpoint. You want to see him as a flawed candidate so you choose to see a statement about the guest worker program as evidence of his opinion on immigration.
No you don't and your failure to know is actually making my point a lot more difficult to present. Let me put it in another I says guns can kill you and nothing else. The implication would be we should take-away guns because they can kill. Do you disagree?
He said a specific policy hurts workers and drives down wages.
You didn't deny it would work for immigration in general did you?
Here is a quote:
Do you see how this can apply to immigration as well?Theoretically it could
So is it my "biased" viewpoint or are you actually running out of arguments?
I also like how you didn't critique my position on what was said instead you decide to ad hom me. You went one step further and psycho-analyzed me. I'll wait for an argument or you know you can ad-hom me and psycho-analyze. If it wasn't clear I want you tell me what I am missing from my comparison and how it is not heavily implied that immigration are bad because they depress American wages.
Previous response you refuse to respond too:
"I can't believe you don't know what an implication is.
Okay the occasion is that immigrants depress American wages which seems to suggest that immigration is bad. This is a clear link.
Another example:
Dumbass says Spider-man 2 is bad because Spider man is in it. The obvious take-away would be Spider-man is in 1 and 3 therefore they all must be bad as well.
This is exactly what Bernie did.
Bernie says workers programs import immigrants that depress American wages. The obvious take-away from this is that Immigrants are not only attained through worker programs so they all must depress wages."
This is a pretty good example of how centrists defame progressives. Bernie criticized a specific policy because it takes advantage of workers. You take that sentence out of context to defame him. This is no different that trying to say that Tusli is a russian operative or one of the countless slanders against yang. You are reaching for anything you can find no matter how thin it is.
Again an attack on my character. You defame me instead acknowledging what Bernie says heavily implies immigration is bad. Here is another analogy I hope you actually critique instead of attacking my character and I will be quoting the very thing I said again even if you decide to question my character instead of making an argument. If I make a case in court that this guy is not innocent and here is the evidence without a good defense. Is it implied that he would go to jail for this?
My response I will be quoting until you stop defaming my character:
"Bernie says workers programs import immigrants that depress American wages. The obvious take-away from this is that Immigrants are not only attained through worker programs so they all must depress wages."
He never said he was against immigration!
It is heavily implied and by your standard he is an idiot and a bigot. I still don't think you know what implication means so I am going to keep asking you until you decide to give an argument so I understand what you are so hung about not attack my character.
You are choosing to infer what you want to infer.
infer: deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.
So let me use deductive reasoning on top of analogies and implications.
P1: Bernie said immigrants depress American wages specifically about worker programs.
P2: This also applies to immigration.
Conclusion: This is at the least Bernie giving an argument against immigration or heavily implying he is against immigration.
Oh I'll wait for the character assassination.
Immigration isn't the cause of low wages.
So Bernie is a liar?
Points you did not refute that I have no mentioned before but I will mention here
And once everything is exploitative, then it is meaningless.
Not the case. We call everything matter. Is that meaningless? No. We call everyone humans. Is that meaningless? No. I gave you a definition and you come back to me with that essentially applies to everything therefore meaningless. Do you have an actual argument against the usage or are you finally going to stop misrepresenting a definition?
no, he said he is against that particular bill because of the guest worker program. Please stop repeating that lie.
Nick Fuentes? You know this is was directed about Nick Fuentes right not Bernie Sanders.
Give me a week to respond. I got banned.
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@TheRealNihilist
You just moved the goalposts instead of making your point about exploitation you have changed it to well they weren't permanent residents. Are you aware of this?
I did not. I have been saying this whole whole time that the policy is exploitative and doesn't usually offer them a pathway to permanent residency. If you haven't been paying attention to what I have been saying that is a you problem.
Guess 6.6% of the people who have had permanent residence are not actual immigrants. I'll wait for you to deport those Americans/immigrants back to wherever they came from.
Ok, so a policy is 94% exploitative and you want to split hairs because for 6% of people it might pay off? That is a ridiculous argument. If the system gets fixed then those people could just go through the normal process instead of having to use the guest worker program.
. Old people will, yeah. as you go lower than 65 that ratio shifts to bernie.Data.
It's late. I will find the polls tomorrow. But basically Biden dominates over 65. Sanders dominates under 35.
No you don't and your failure to know is actually making my point a lot more difficult to present. Let me put it in another I says guns can kill you and nothing else. The implication would be we should take-away guns because they can kill. Do you disagree?
Or you mean that I should be very careful while cleaning my gun. Or you mean that you are talking to your child and trying to keep him from playing with your gun. There are many contexts where the exact same words can imply very different things. you are choosing to infer Sanders' in the way that suits you when you and I both know he was talking about the guest worker program.
You didn't deny it would work for immigration in general did you?
i did not deny it. If you take his words out of context then they could be misinterpreted to apply to immigration in general. But since he was very clear that he was talking about the guest worker program, we know the context.
So is it my "biased" viewpoint or are you actually running out of arguments?
I haven't really had to make many arguments yet. You have yet to provide any evidence of his previous opinion on immigration. you have only provided a clip of his opinion on the guest worker program, which is not the same thing.
If it wasn't clear I want you tell me what I am missing from my comparison and how it is not heavily implied that immigration are bad because they depress American wages.
I'm honestly not sure how I could explain this to you. He was very clear that he was talking about the guest worker program. He never said what he thought of immigration. You are choosing to take his criticism of 1 very specific program and pretend like that is his position on immigration. There is no comparison because you have yet to provide any evidence.
You defame me instead acknowledging what Bernie says heavily implies immigration is bad.
lol I explain how you are defaming sanders and your response is that I am defaming you? an excellent deflection sir!
It is heavily implied and by your standard he is an idiot and a bigot. I still don't think you know what implication means so I am going to keep asking you until you decide to give an argument so I understand what you are so hung about not attack my character.
This is just getting really repetitive and sad. He said that the guest worker program (which temporarily imports people, then deports them before they can get much in the way of a raise or benefits) depresses wages. He did not say anything about immigration in general. He is talking about 1 specific policy. You are choosing to infer his meaning as something completely different to what he is saying.
P1: Bernie said immigrants depress American wages specifically about worker programs.
He said this specific program does that, yes.
P2: This also applies to immigration.
He did not say that. You are making this link. He did not.
Conclusion: This is at the least Bernie giving an argument against immigration or heavily implying he is against immigration.
incorrect. he was referring only to that one program. You are extending the argument to immigration in general. He did not.
Immigration isn't the cause of low wages.So Bernie is a liar?
Again, bernie didn't say immigration caused low wages. He said that 1 program did. Why do I keep needing to repeat this? I have refuted this over and over and over and you are just ignoring it.
Nick Fuentes? You know this is was directed about Nick Fuentes right not Bernie Sanders.
I may have misunderstood that point.
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@TheRealNihilist
It is an assumption I accepted for this conversation. Personally from what I found wages barely drop and the positive outweigh the negatives.
It depends on how many workers of that type go into that market. Most are unskilled laborers, so they will have a larger effect on them while high-skill wages will mostly go untouched. You also have to consider changes in working conditions for construction and agricultural work.
Immigration can be good if you are accepting workers who will go into fields for which you have a shortage and won't go directly on welfare.