What version of Christianity should Christians follow?

Author: Alec ,

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  • Alec
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    It seems as if there is something wrong with every church.  The only true Christian died on the cross.

    The Catholics, apart from doing something that I think is mary worship, have a sex abuse scandal that the pope does not much about.

    The unitaritarians are too liberal for God.  They are all about accepting sin, rather than rehabbing those who have done sinful things.

    The evangelicals are too conservative for God.  They reject undocumented immigrants, which is not very christian.

    I think every Christian should be an independent Christian from a religious standpoint, so they can think for themselves on the bible.
  • ludofl3x
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    --> @Alec
    I think every Christian should be an independent Christian from a religious standpoint, so they can think for themselves on the bible.

    Then what do they need to be Christians at all for, if they can think for themselves on the bible and decide what is right or wrong in it? I can think for myself on the bible, and I'm not a Christian. I'm curious why they'd need to call themselves Christian...also doesn't making your own rules and doing the a la carte Christianity almost certainly put you on a path to hell? I know priests who abuse kids go to heaven if they're really sorry about it, but me, a guy who doesn't believe in Jesus or heaven or hell or anything at all, but has never abused a child, according to most rules I'm going to hell if Christians are right. 
  • Ragnar
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    I’m going to use GPS as an analogy... There are many roads to the same destination, you believe yours is best, maybe due to experience take an alternative which the GPS doesn’t suggest, but that doesn’t mean every other driver on the road is wrong.

    Unless they’re using iMaps. 0 stars on a scale of 1 to 5; WTF Apple?

  • Alec
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    --> @Ragnar
    The thing is, the bible states that most people go to hell.  So not every road is the right one.  Christians should figure out the bible for themselves and live by it.
  • ludofl3x
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    --> @Alec
    Should CHristians then tell each other the right road? It's a serious question. If you know the right road and don't tell, aren't you condemning others? Isn't this what evangelism is supposed to be about? Isn't it your duty?

    You still haven't said how to figure out if it's the right road. The GPS analogy doesn't work, because there's only one road to heaven. Through Jesus. Sorry, muslims and hindus and jews! TOo bad you weren't born Christian, I guess you can burn for all eternity because you never heard of him. 

  • zedvictor4
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    --> @ludofl3x
    No one is born a Christian.

    Christian is a label that gets stamped on us, usually without our permission.

    Fortunately I found it easy to erase that label.

    Others are less fortunate and spend a lifetime worrying about it.
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Alec
    One doesn't need a version to follow Christianity, all they need to do is read the Gospel and apply it to themselves that's it. As for the "assembly" that just constitutes other fellow believers and again, you don't need a version of church to have fellowship. Or, as my wife and I did we just got involved with the local non-denominational church just to be of servitude but it had nothing to do with having to follow a specific organization we already apply the Gospels. Other than that all are free to obtain the Gospels through no medium other than God. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Alec
    The only true Christian died on the cross.

    Lol so it would seem. However I have always loved the Gospels and the example of Jesus, I would apply the teachings to myself as a young kid on my own accord. I love the intimacy and passion He had about the Father, it literally changed how I interacted with life and others. I was always a pretty good kid but the Gospel really got my foot in the door spiritually speaking and expanded me in many directions as I adopted it to myself. I didn't have a pastor or church telling me what to do or how to live I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels.
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Whatever the church down the road is. 
    Orrrrrrrr
    Whatever church your parents picked you.

    Hey Alec?
    I am a little slow, so i am still looking for the link between, ( believing in a God ) and ( joining a religious group because of it.  Or if it happens the other way around. 

    Also Alec?
    I suspect every theist on this site is in the correct religious group. 
    THIS MUST BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. 

    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

    You say you think every Christian should be a independent Christian. 
    I am with you on that.  However it couldn't happen hey?

    I think Alec,  i believe there would be close to 5 billion non secular god believers as we speak .
    Thats a few hundred million atheists and alll the smart people that believe in god. Allllllllllll non sec god believers. 
    There i said it. 

    I am going to have a think about it. And I'll engage in a serious talk about it. 
    But nice post topic man , i like it.

    The first question has to be.  
    How did they become a " Christian " ?

    Then the answer to this is.
    They simply guessed / choose / wanted what holy book they reckon god was responsible for. 
      





  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    so i am still looking for the link between, ( believing in a God ) and ( joining a religious group because of it. 

    Religious groups are for the purpose of souls connecting with a collective environment, seeing as how humans are so attracted to having someone to relate with and share life with. When you leave this world it's the same way, there are countless collective societies and so the soul has things to do and places to go, all that doesn't just go away when you leave the body.

    But to answer the question, the link between believing in God and joining a particular faith I would assume that they find something worthwhile within that belief. And no one can deny that religions are cultural so it is entirely feasible many children follow the path of their parents, but again the point is that it's similar to a family thing where it is more about connection and fellowship than say the actual beliefs. For me it's the opposite, I have to see truth and something worth pursuing more than what my parents ever believed. I don't care what they believe on one level lol, that has never been my motivation I'm more attracted to knowledge, learning and acquiring things that actually work and produce something.

    Not many people approach religion and spirituality from a Omnist point of view like myself, but when you understand why religions and spiritual paths exist in the first place it's silly to believe that only one route has all the answers. As a matter of fact I have found the opposite to be true, where one religion leaves off the other picks up, and many sources have varying degrees of knowledge and insights. Having said that there are definitely more advanced groups than others and you can see that in their teachings.

  • Stephen
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    --> @EtrnlVw
     I didn't have a pastor or church telling me what to do or how to live I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels.

    That will be Jesus then, who was  rabbi and a Jew and the New Testament is supposedly full of HIS instructions  and HIS sayings, on how to live. 

    The actual word pastor is derived from a Latin word meaning shepherd. Jesus then was also a Pastor as in - The lord is my shepherd etc etc. , but you don't have a shepherd or a pastor "telling you how to live and what to do",  do you? You just listen to Jesus who is was a pastor /  shepherd. 

    Crack on!
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Stephen
    Once again I fail to understand what point you are making and even if you have one at all, and now I'm wondering if you understood what I wrote. My point was that you don't need a version of Christianity you can go straight to the Gospels. By pastor I was referring to organized church, if you want to consider Jesus as my pastor that's perfect and that is confirming the point I was making in regards to the OP. 
  • Stephen
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Once again I fail to understand what point you are making...

    I am not surprised. you are slow at recognizing your own contradictions.


    and even if you have one at all, 

    I do have one. read slowly above . I have pointed out that in one sentence you say you have no church or pastor ""telling you how to live and what to do", I have shown  above that this not to be the case, because in your next sentence you contradict yourself openly by telling us all  that you "I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels".  I have pointed out very clearly to you, that Jesus was in fact a Rabbi i.e. a  pastor which means shepherd. You are just pretending its not there.





    and now I'm wondering if you understood what I wrote.

    Perfectly, thanks. . You say one one hand you have no pastor or church " telling me what to do or how to live". But contradict this by adding,  "I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels".   I have said and explained very clearly above that Jesus was a rabbi, a teacher, a pastor and a shepherd. The very same kind of person that YOU say that you don't have teaching you these things about how to live your life. 


    My point was that you don't need a version of Christianity

    And I have said to you on other threads  and now here that one doesn't  need Christianity at all to live a clean , upstanding moralistic life. I have argued that Christianity and Christians, -  as much as they like to believe they do, -  do not have the monopoly on how one can live a life of values and morals, and live clean sinless lives. 



    you can go straight to the Gospels.

    yes you have said this or similar three times now in various forms but failed to produce. Or have you forgotten this 

    @EtrnlVw wrote Post # 18 Actually, anyone arguing for or against the perfection or imperfection of the Bible are silly, and then missing the things that matter in the meantime,  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3384/does-the-scripture-actually-say-this-at-all-anywhere?

    And what would they - "the things that matter" be?

    I am still waiting for a reply. 





    if you want to consider Jesus as my pastor that's perfect
    It is you that considers Jesus as your pastor although you have stated that "you have no pastor". You told us this yourself when you said:

     "I got it all from Jesus and the Gospels".





  • Mopac
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    --> @Alec
    It seems as if there is something wrong with every church.  The only true Christian died on the cross.



    If the only true Christian died on the cross, you call Jesus a liar when he says thst the gstes of bell will not overcome the church. You also are denying the many saints and martyrs who suffered torments for being shining beacons of Christ in the world.

    Is there something wrong with every church?

    Christ Himself took on flesh. Weak human flesh that needs to eat, drink, and rest. Weak human flesh that is subject to time and the elements. The Church here on Earth is as the flesh. The Church up in heaven is as the divine. Just as Christ himself was fully God and fully man, so to is the Church fully God and fully man. The Church here on Earth and the Church in heaven constitute one Church, they are not 2 churches. 

    Are you a sinner? Great, then the church is for you. The Church is not a museum of the saints or courthouse to stand before the judge. It is a hospital of the spirit to help you to free yourself from passion and delusion.



    The Catholics, apart from doing something that I think is mary worship, have a sex abuse scandal that the pope does not much about.

    The Roman Catholic Church broke away from The Orthodox Catholic Church a thousand years ago. 

    The biggest obstacle towards them reconciliation with Orthodoxy is their doctrine of Papal Supremacy, which the Church at large has NEVER accepted. Besides that, they altered the creed of the church which cannot be done outside of an ecumenical council, and they have introduced. a lot ofnother innovations to the faith.

    We Orthodox love Mary very much, because she is the ark of the covenant, the throne of God, the mother of the church, the Theotokos. Christ took his flesh from her. We don't worship her as God, though she is easily the most venerated and loved of the saints.

    To give an idea of how we might think differently of Mary, note that it isn't uncommon to see icons of Mary in the Latin church where she is alone by herself. With very rare exceptions, every icon you see of Mary in The Orthodox Church has her pictured with Jesus, and she is always trying to direct your attention to Him, be it through her hand gesture or eyes. 

    Historically, Christians have always venerated Mary, for it is even written in scripture, "all generations shall call me(Mary) blessed."



    The unitaritarians are too liberal for God.  They are all about accepting sin, rather than rehabbing those who have done sinful things.

    Unitarians do not accept the Trinity, which frankly disqualifies them from even being called Christian. If they do not believe that God's Word and Holy Spirit are divine, they are effectively denying that God ever became man. They are denying that God is with us. They aren't really Christians. 




    The evangelicals are too conservative for God.  They reject undocumented immigrants, which is not very christian.

    It's a bit more complicated than that I am sure. For example, breaking the law is not very Christian. If you want a better reason for rejecting Evangelical Christianity, it's that it has become overly Calvinistic, and Calvin's teachings are very much in opposition to what the church has always taught.

    Another good reason to reject any evangelical church is lack of consistency. The only thing you might find consistent is a lack of depth and a whole lot of going from the cuff. Oh, you found a church you like and the pastor is really on point? Well, he died or moved away, and the next guy that replaces him is a mug.

    Really though, you'll find a lot of conservatives in the Orthodox Church. It is a conservative Church. We have been doing the same liturgy for over a thousand and a half years! Politically, it's a mixed bag. I have friends at church that are Democrats and Republicans. I think at least at my parish, politically people are a little more conservative.

    I personally do not have much faith in politics.

    I think every Christian should be an independent Christian from a religious standpoint, so they can think for themselves on the bible.
    That is a very protestant way of thinking! 

    And that is why there are 30,000+ protestant denominations. 

    Humility is very important in the Christian walk. You can't do that if you take yourself as having more authority to interpret scripture and doctrine than even a bishop! Besides, there is no such thing as a lone wolf Christian. Christianity is not an individualistic faith, it is in a way very communal. Even monastics and recluses partake of the eucharist and participate in liturgical life.


  • disgusted
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    --> @Alec
    Christians should figure out the bible for themselves and live by it.
    Why? What authority do books written by primitive, ignorant, superstitious savages have?