Magnum Mysterium

Author: 3RU7AL ,

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  • 3RU7AL
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    3RU7AL
    Click to watch 7 minutes, [LINK]

    One of my Christian friends shared this high-quality presentation with me.

    It basically uses the book of Job to illustrate that humans are ill-equipped to determine what is ultimately "good" or "evil".

    Taken at face-value, it basically dismantles Abrahamic Law.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    What exactly is Abrahamic law?
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Mopac
  • Mopac
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    The purpose of the Mosaic Law was to direct people to SANITY in an insane world. It is supposed to train someone's heart to love The Truth.

    When that intention is lost, what you have is following of the law because it is the law, and so the spirit behind it is lost. 


    The purpose of the law is to direct people to love God, who is The Truth, and your fellow man as being made in the image of that God. The law also had the purpose of setting aside a people to be pure.


    It isn't that the law is bad, quite the contrary. It is just that God is the one who saves, not the law. 


    You don't need to know The Truth to know how to love The Truth. 

  • 3RU7AL
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    3RU7AL
    And it's almost identical to this 9 minute masterpiece, [LINK]
  • Ragnar
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Click to watch 7 minutes, [LINK]
    That's a gem. A great retelling of Job, with added context from the other two Books of Wisdom.

  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Ragnar
    Imagine how shocked I was.
  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    Job always was my favorite book from the Bible because the narrative actually makes sense and has some decent quality writing as opposed to other books of the old testament that tended to be like "okay first this happened then this happened then this happened then this, the end."

    Have not watched either of the videos yet. Will probably do so sometime tonight.
  • Mopac
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    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    Job is actually a very old and long poem. That might explain why you find it less of a chore to read. In a way, it was written to be beautiful. 

    Even though poetry doesn't always translate the best, some of that is still retained. Job in particular is noted as being a particularly hard book to translate in a lot of places. So much so that the septuigant version is a bit shorter due to difficulties in translating.







  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    I didn't say Job is easy to read and the rest is not, I said Job is well written and the rest is not. Those are two very different statements!
  • Mopac
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    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    Thats just like, your opinion, dawg.
  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    --> @Mopac
    No shit Sherlock.
  • Mopac
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    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    2nd to last word
  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Just watched the video. It is a good quality video but I don't see how it dismantles Abrahamic law. It just summarizes the book of Job, and a very short summary at that leaving out what I think are the best bits.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Discipulus_Didicit
    Just watched the video. It is a good quality video but I don't see how it dismantles Abrahamic law. It just summarizes the book of Job, and a very short summary at that leaving out what I think are the best bits.
    What stood out to me was the part near the end, when "YHWH" actually "explains itself".

    The case is an appeal to complexity, which is a classic appeal to ignorance.

    I'm so great and smart and you're a worm who can't possibly comprehend the true scope of my ultimate genius.

    And (IFF) you accept that argument as fact (THEN) "YHWH" is incomprehensible and any words or laws attributed to it are twisted and unreliable "interpretations" by mere mortal worms.

    It also drives home the point that being rich =/= good and being poor =/= bad.

    I also find it shocking that the story seems to imply that after the death of your entire immediate family, everything is just great when you get remarried and have double the number of kids.

    How luck is that Job guy!!  Because every0one knows that your immediate family are just, you know, basically FUNGIBLE ASSETS.
  • Discipulus_Didicit
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    --> @3RU7AL
    And (IFF) you accept that argument as fact (THEN) "YHWH" is incomprehensible and any words or laws attributed to it are twisted and unreliable "interpretations" by mere mortal worms.

    Ah, okay I see where you are coming from now.
  • Mopac
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Someone who loves God will be thankful for what they have. Dwelling on ones past losses is an unhealthy fetter.

    You know The Ultimate Reality exists, and even knowing what that means you can discern rightly that God is to a great extent incomprehensible.

    But we know God exists because of The Truth that is incarnate and witnessed in creation. We know that to a certain extent, we all have the ability to discern between right and wrong, truth and falsehood. It is built into us. The truth is, this sense can be trained and honed.

    The orthodox discipline, and the historical Christian discipline is centered around purifying and honing this sense. We don't do this alone. Isolation very easily leads to pride is the root of much spiritual delusion. Even hermits take wise council and partake in eucharistic liturgy.


    The law of Moses was created as a guideline. If the intent of the law is lost, all you have is the law itself. Fulfilling the law by letter is in itself not what makes someone righteous.

    The law of Moses is a type and shadow of God's Law, which is Truth, and governs the universe. That is why we say Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of The Law and The Prophets, because Christ is The Divine wisdom that The Law is a shadow of.



262 days later

  • Lemming
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    --> @3RU7AL
    What stood out to me was the part near the end, when "YHWH" actually "explains itself".

    The case is an appeal to complexity, which is a classic appeal to ignorance.

    I'm so great and smart and you're a worm who can't possibly comprehend the true scope of my ultimate genius.

    And (IFF) you accept that argument as fact (THEN) "YHWH" is incomprehensible and any words or laws attributed to it are twisted and unreliable "interpretations" by mere mortal worms.

    It also drives home the point that being rich =/= good and being poor =/= bad.

    I also find it shocking that the story seems to imply that after the death of your entire immediate family, everything is just great when you get remarried and have double the number of kids.

    How luck is that Job guy!!  Because every0one knows that your immediate family are just, you know, basically FUNGIBLE ASSETS.
    Though I may be mistaken, I'm not really sure that it's 'meant to be taken that way.
    God knows everything and you know nothing, so shut up, I mean.

    The way I take Job and Ecclesiastes are as bits of existential and questioning despair, the 'voicing of doubts and feelings that humans might possess when faced with the unfairness of life, and yet at times receiving no answer that they find to explain it all at the moment of their life on Earth.

    But, being that we exist, we must still make choices, follow some path in life, and being that it was religious fellows who wrote said books, I imagine. They reach the religious conclusion and lifestyle as meaningful.

    I may be mistaken and reaching based upon my 'own conclusions in life unrelated to religion, but even as an atheist, I find Job and Ecclesiastes inspiring, when I read them, which is rather rarely honestly.
  • Stephen
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    --> @3RU7AL

    The Bible Project on Proverbs:
    "The righteous are rewarded and the wicked are punished"...….. " you get what you deserve"[LINK]


    Well  not if we listen to Christians. According to Christians  we are all punished  ( because of the unfairness of gods law imo)  even the "innocent and righteous" like Job. i.e. we 
    all die because  someone else's misdeeds or "sins".

    And not a single word about the loss of the life of his TEN! dear children who were also "innocent". Unless someone here can explain what it was they had done that was so "wicked"  that they deserved to die on a wager. It appears that life- human life - is cheap to god and that humans are ten a penny, literally.

     And hadn't the "accuser" Satan once been sentenced to "crawl on his belly eating dirt for the rest of his days" thousands of years before for leading the whole of mankind astray, (Genesis 3:14) yet here he is just "  roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” (Job1: 7) making wagers with the Lord god Jehovah, himself.






  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Stephen
    And not a single word about the loss of the life of his TEN! dear children who were also "innocent".
    Well stated.
  • Lemming
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    Life can be hard, always 'seemed to me that such factored heavily into Judaism.
    Suffering, perseverance, and celebration of what one has.
    Though maybe that's me stereotyping/misunderstanding the religion, first thing that popped to my head today as I thought about this subject again, 'was a fictional musical.

    To Life