Entering Into the Kingdom Of God

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

01.25.2020 05:17PM

-->

@Stephen

This is a really good sermon, you know.

And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.

Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Topic's author

#62

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

01.26.2020 06:52AM

-->

@Mopac

I believe I already pointed out that rebuking the woman after she already committed the deed is to dishonor her sacrifice.

Yes and Jesus also rebuked the person who rebuked woman didn't he. Justifying this wasteful action, by saying words to the effect that ' just for today, sod the poor' .

6 “Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 7 The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.

I don't see a showing of too much care concerning "the financial poor" there, do you ?

And there is this biblical fact;

Luke 6:24

“But woe to you who are rich,

for you have already received your comfort.

Topic's author

#63

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

01.26.2020 07:04AM

-->

@Mopac

This is a really good sermon, you know.

Would you be kind enough to put the name of that particular Gospel writer and the chapter and verse to your post 61 above.

Sound lovely. I agree. The famous Sermon On the Mount that - just like most of the New Testament - makes absolutely no sense once broken down scrutinized

I intend to create a thread on this very item. I might call it- The Sermon On The Mount - Debunked!

#64

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

01.26.2020 08:21AM

-->

@Stephen

You really need to do some homework. Come back when you have at least researched what it is you are denying.

Here is what I am denying.

This seem a very bias and hypocritical statement coming from the Christ when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples.

And so far, you have dodged instead of addressing this lie.

Give or take

Please attribute quotes when you post them.

...valued at 300 denarii...

Valued by whom? Two days wages made Mary "rich"? So working for a week made a person fabulously rich? Do you read your posts before you publish them?

Topic's author

#65

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+14%3A5&version=NIV

01.26.2020 10:00AM

-->

@ethang5

...valued at 300 denarii...
Valued by whom? Two days wages made Mary "rich"? So working for a week made a person fabulously rich? Do you read your posts before you publish them?

It was at least worth the equivalent of " a years wages" and could have been "sold for more" according to YOUR OW FKN gosples. So stop with your lies .

You just cannot face the fkn fact. You have nothing to dispute this so simply turn to telling lies. which of course is what you ALWAYS DO.

Mark 14:5 It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages

English Standard Version

“Why was this ointment not sold for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> three hundred denarii<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and given to the poor?”John 12:5

They were all rich and influential people , princess. There is no getting away from it. Yet your lord Jesus says this about those that are rich:

Luke 6:24

“But woe to you who are rich,

for you have already received your comfort.

This seem a very bias and hypocritical statement coming from the Christ when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples.
And so far, you have dodged instead of addressing this lie.

I think it is you that needs to do some explaining. I have made my case and presented my evidence. You either simply debunk it with facts and not your beliefs OR YOUR OPINIONS! presented as facts.

Or leave the thread.

"I am not sure if Mary realized the significance of her action or understood that Jesus was going to die. She did what she did out of love and appreciation for Jesus who recently had raised her brother Lazarus from the dead. She broke the vial of perfume and poured its entire contents over Jesus’ head. She lavished the precious perfume valued at 300 denarii on Jesus. A denarius represents the daily wage for a laborer. In today’s value, that anointing costs approximately $30,000! Mary was extravagant in her adoration because in her eyes, Jesus was worthy … far more valuable than 300 denarii".

Give or take

#66

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

01.26.2020 03:05PM

-->

@Stephen

It was at least worth the equivalent of " a years wages" and could have been "sold for more"

Your post said 2 days wages. Are you contradicting your post?

...according to YOUR OW FKN gosples. So stop with your lies .

No need for vulgarity Steve. My gospel recorded someone as saying this, not that it was true. You said the person saying this was a liar and a thief. Are you backtracking?

You just cannot face the fkn fact. You have nothing to dispute this so simply turn to telling lies. which of course is what you ALWAYS DO.

I have posted what I dispute, but you have avoided addressing it.

This seem a very bias and hypocritical statement coming from the Christ when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples.

This is untrue. I have said so. But you want to stay on the price of the spices Mary used. It's insignificant to the argument.

1. You were equivocal on the word disciple, 2. Jesus did not "surround" Himself with rich disciples, and therefore your conclusion that it was hypocritical of Jesus to say it was difficult for the rich to enter Heaven is false.

Now, dodge that and tell us again how I have nothing to dispute.

They were all rich and influential people , princess.

At least you've given up the misleading fakery of calling them disciples.

You've presented no facts. Your unattributed quote, which you contradict, does not support your case.

I have presented verses, and explanations from the culture and context, and as usual, you have dodged every question asked of you.

You cannot win by being obstinate or obtuse. Neither of those tricks will work here.

Questions you've dodged:

*If Jesus' disciples were rich, how come they lived in poverty? Often sleeping outside for example?

*If Jesus' disciples were rich, why did they need charity?

*Why did Mary and Joseph offer two birds, the cost for the poor, instead of a sheep as their offering, if they were rich?

*Why did Jesus need to send Peter to fish to gain the money to pay taxes if they were rich?

*If Jesus was rich, why did He need to borrow someone's donkey?

Lies you've told:

*That's; around almost 30 grand!!!!!! in today's money, princess.

*And this wasn't the first time either.

*They were throwing it over Jesus like there was no tomorrow.

*Judas came from a rich family.

*The disciples had flourishing businesses.

Now, dodge all that again, and tell us how I have nothing to dispute. Go ahead.

Topic's author

#67

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

01.26.2020 06:13PM

-->

@ethang5

Here is what I am denying.

This seem a very bias and hypocritical statement coming from the Christ when we consider that he had surrounded himself with very rich and influential disciples.

Deny away. I don't care. It is clear that Jesus says one thing about rich men entering the kingdom of god yet on the other he surrounded himself with rich influential people.And he couldn't be more clear when he forces home the point, he says :

“But woe to you who are rich,

for you have already received your comfort.Luke 6:24

I have shown some of these rich and influential people and I have shown the worth of the expensiveness of oils and perfumes that the "woman of substance" showered on Jesus worth $30 grands worth in today's money. You can deny that too, but it won't change the fact.

You on the other hand although denying what I have wrote haven't produced a single piece of evidence that proves what I say yo be wrong.

So you don't agree though you have no evidence. ok. I don't care.

...according to YOUR OW FKN gosples. So stop with your lies .
No need for vulgarity Steve. My gospel recorded someone as saying this, not that it was true.

Yes it does doesn't it although you denied that too didn't you? And now your really on the back foot and painted into a corner you are now questioning the and the point they may not be true? YOU WANT IT BOTH FKN WAYS!!!!

So you have said your piece and now you can leave the thread, can't you.

Good by princess.

#68

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

01.26.2020 07:17PM

-->

@Stephen

Stephen, your dedication to undermine the scriptures has compromised you ability to approach the subject honestly.

#69

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

01.27.2020 04:39AM

-->

@Stephen

Deny away. I don't care.

Well, you at first said I had nothing to deny. Now you say you don't care. On a debate site no less!

...he surrounded himself with rich influential people.

That lie has been debunked. Jesus did not seek out rich people.

And he couldn't be more clear when he forces home the point, he says :

“But woe to you who are rich,

for you have already received your comfort.Luke 6:24

What point? How does this verse say Jesus surrounded Himself with rich people?

I have shown some of these rich and influential people

You first tried to conflate them with Jesus' 12 disciples, and you have not shown that Jesus surrounded Himself with them.

"woman of substance" showered on Jesus worth $30 grands worth in today's money.

What it's worth today means nothing. 2,000 years ago uranium was worth nothing. What were the spices worth in Jesus' day? It was expensive, but it did not make her rich.

You can deny that too, but it won't change the fact.

Deny what? How much you think the spices was worth is not a fact, its your uneducated guess. And even if you got the cost right, it would not mean she was rich.

You on the other hand although denying what I have wrote haven't produced a single piece of evidence that proves what I say yo be wrong.

Got your obtuse glasses on again huh? You dodged the points I posted and then say I haven't produced a single piece of evidence. Lol. OK emperor, at least the Gentle Readers see it.

My gospel recorded someone as saying this, not that it was true.

Yes it does doesn't it

The Bible is like a history book genius. It reports falsehoods and truth. Just because it is the bible recording Judas saying something, does not mean what he is recorded as saying is true.

...although you denied that too didn't you?

Of course. You posted a verse calling Judas a liar and a thief. Why do you believe him? So you can make this ridiculous claim that Jesus was biased and hypocritical.

You actually side with Judas, the one stealing from the poor, and call Jesus, the one healing the poor, uncaring about the poor! Tell me your moral compass isn't broken.

And now your really on the back foot and painted into a corner you are now questioning the and the point they may not be true? YOU WANT IT BOTH FKN WAYS!!!!

Lol! Really, cursing doesn't help you. You have given us your opinion based only on your ignorance and bias.

As we examine your claims we find you are both ignorant and dishonest. As we expose you, you get angry, start cursing, and finally run to the mods hoping to get them to give you a win where your lame argument couldn't.

You run from questions, and equivocate in your use of articles. I don't know which is more shameful, that you don't know you do these things, or that you know and don't care.

Either way, your "Entering the Kingdom" clunker is dead. You will of course rant and fume a bit more, continue to dodge the questions put to you, and finally go post another clunker again based on ignorance and half-truths, and we will clobber it again. You will fume and curse, and the process will be repeated.

When I told you I was here for you, I did not lie.

Topic's author

#70

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

01.27.2020 08:55AM

-->

@Mopac

Stephen, your dedication to undermine the scriptures has compromised you ability to approach the subject honestly.

Simply show me where it is that you believe that I have been dishonest about these scriptures instead of accusing me in a veiled fashion of being a liar.

#71

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

01.27.2020 12:49PM

-->

@Stephen

I am not calling you a liar Stephen, but I am saying that you are approaching the whole matter with an unclean heart. An unclean heart perverts reasoning in a way that is often imperceptible.

You try to hard to conform whatever scripture it may be to your own understanding. The proper interpretation cannot be done independently of The Holy Spirit, which itself is The Spirit the prophets spoke by.

Topic's author

#72

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

01.29.2020 10:15AM

-->

@Mopac

I am not calling you a liar Stephen, but I am saying that you are approaching the whole matter with an unclean heart.

Oh FFS stop it. You don't know what my heart is or isn't. Are you saying that every single person who - in your opinion - has the audacity to scrutinize and question these ambiguous half stories in the scriptures possesses " an unclean heart"?

#73

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

01.29.2020 11:51AM

-->

@Stephen

The ones who dodge questions and pretend not to see replies, yes.

#74

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050