Tutton Carmon.
If Your Church Burns Down
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@ethang5
You mentioned Plato, and Plato may have been a theist
Nah Plato was probably a theist. He was definitely not "pretending to be an atheist"
If anything one could say (as some have) that he was a closet atheist and lied about being a theist due to the fact that atheism was a crime in that time and place. I am no historian so I can't go into much detail regarding the debate but general consensus is that he was not an atheist.
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@Salixes
AM, was post 13 suggesting that I 'claim to be an atheist' or that Plato 'claimed to be an atheist'
Because you could argue (as some have) that Plato was a closet atheist and only pretended to believe in the gods but I am not aware of anything that would indicate he ever outright said he was an atheist.
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@ethang5
There is less evidence for the existence of Plato than for Jesus.
That's laughably false. You may be confusing Plato with Socrates, though even then this statement would be a pretty big stretch.
The "more evidence for Jesus than Socrates" meme is based on the fact that Socrates left behind no written works of his own (or at least none that have survived to the present, it is hard to tell which). The number of firsthand accounts of his life, however, are incredibly numerous considering how long ago he lived.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am not confused at all, and if we go by your stated standard, there is more evidence for Jesus existence than for Plato.That's laughably false. You may be confusing Plato with Socrates, though even then this statement would be a pretty big stretch.
The "more evidence for Jesus than Socrates" meme is based on the fact that Socrates left behind no written works of his own (or at least none that have survived to the present, it is hard to tell which). The number of firsthand accounts of his life, however, are incredibly numerous considering how long ago he lived.
There are more firsthand accounts of Jesus' life than for either Plato or Socrates.
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@ethang5
If we go by your stated standard, there is more evidence for Jesus existence than for Plato.
I mean, he wrote and left behind an actual novel-length text well over 50,000 words in length as just one of his many works that survived to the modern day.
I wasn't aware of any texts attributed to Jesus.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Are you aware of the recent dispute about whether Shakespeare wrote the works we currently attribute to him?
So all it takes is for someone to attribute something to someone and that is evidence?
I wasn't aware of any texts attributed to Jesus.
Ever hear of the Sermon On The Mount? Or the Golden Rule? Or the Parable of the Sower?
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@ethang5
I said written by, not about
Yes, I have heard of the Bible.
I said written by, not about
I doubt very much that Plato wrote those things himself. If he used a scribe, that kills your argument, according to your logic.
Yes, I have heard of the Bible.
The bible was compiled long after the sermon on the mount. Those words are attributed to Jesus (your standard) Because someone else wrote them down is immaterial.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I was referring to Plato's "Third Man" hypothesis.Yeah so he was talking about Plato like I said but not in the way I thought he was. I thought he was making a reference to The Apology (a written work by Plato purporting to describe the trial of Socrates) where Socrates is accused and convicted of being an atheist as well as other crimes all of which he denied.
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@Salixes
I was referring to Plato's "Third Man" hypothesis.
Well you called it the "three man" argument before, which explains why I had no idea what you were talking about (see post 26).
Also that was Aristotle not Plato.
Also you gave an outrageously innacurate description of the argument in post 23.
Also you don't seem to realize that it was an argument and instead seem to think it was some sort of theory of its own...
I mean dude, I am just a random asshole on the internet with a high school diploma and a 2.7 GPA. You should not be having this much trouble keeping up with me.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Also that was Aristotle not Plato.
Wrong, it was Plato.
I mean dude, I am just a random asshole on the internet with a high school diploma and a 2.7 GPA
You said it.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Of course you would never dare to outrightly declare such an abomination in those days unless you were feeling suicidal.Because you could argue (as some have) that Plato was a closet atheist and only pretended to believe in the gods but I am not aware of anything that would indicate he ever outright said he was an atheist.
My bone of contention, and in keeping with my bold (yet highly accurate) views is that the nature of being a good philosopher is that you need to have a very conceptual-type thinking pattern which is why philosophers always seem to be a bit la-dee-da, non-commital, vacillating dreamers, more akin to being theistic.
No, he should, DD. He should.I mean dude, I am just a random asshole on the internet with a high school diploma and a 2.7 GPA. You should not be having this much trouble keeping up with me.
Lol!
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@Salixes
I still don't even know what you are talking about when you refer to the "third man theory" because you described it with a bunch of nonsense text about drinking hemlock and having visions or something.
I am forced to assume that you are making some weird reference to Aristotle's "third man argument" which he created to demonstrate certain flaws in Plato's Theory of Forms.
If you are referring to something else then please reread post 26 and this time actually respond to it rather than simply ignoring it...
A quick skim of the internet does not substitute for an education.
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@ethang5
If he used a scribe, that kills your argument, according to your logic.
I am not aware of anyone being capable of using a scribe while not existing.
Still not sure what your reference to the Shakespeare stuff has to do with anything either, perhaps you could fill in the blanks...
It is reasonable to think it is possible Shakespeare existed and the works attributed to him were plagiarized by Shakespeare.Therefore it is reasonable to think it is possible Plato did not exist and the works attributed to him were _______.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I am not aware of anyone being capable of using a scribe while not existing.
Who said Plato didn't exist? I said your logic was faulty. Writing attributed to Plato does not prove Plato existed, and if a scribe wrote what is attributed to Plato, then your logic says its about Plato, not by Plato. Try to keep up.
Still not sure what your reference to the Shakespeare stuff has to do with anything either, perhaps you could fill in the blanks...
Writing attributed to a writer is not proof that writer existed or that he wrote that work.
It is reasonable to think it is possible Shakespeare existed and the works attributed to him were plagiarized by Shakespeare.Therefore it is reasonable to think it is possible Plato did not exist and the works attributed to him were _______
I think Plato existed. I just don't think the work attributed to him is what proves it.
And your legs are not long enough to run away from the point. There is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than for Plato.
I'm not doubting the existence of Plato, I'm saying the evidence for Jesus is stronger.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
If you are referring to something else then please reread post 26 and this time actually respond to it rather than simply ignoring it...
Oh yes of course. I must be an abject failure to humanity for obviously not responding to your pertinent and eloquently worded post. What was I thinking of and, Oh my God, how remiss of me? I shall never get over the total feeling of anguish and trauma.
Let me try at least to make amends and herewith tender my humble reply and promise to never ignore thy mastership ever again; never ever.
Ahemm, my considered response is:
Do you go out often?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Has he seen a pic of you DD? Cause if you look like a sheep, that might explain his question above.