If God exists, does he meet the 4 As?

Author: Alec ,

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  • Alec
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    I think if God exists, he can't meet all the 4 As(All present, all powerful, all knowing, all loving).  I don't know if it even states in the bible that these characteristics are true, and if it does state them in the bible, then it could just be God being metaphorical.  If he's metaphorical on some other things, then why wouldn't he be metaphorical on claiming to meet the 4 As?

  • Bespoked
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    --> @Alec
    I think if God exists, he can't meet all the 4 As(All present, all powerful, all knowing, all loving). 
    I really think it's because God is a man. He would not be very good at multi-tasking. There are going to be times when God is all present but he won't be so all-powerful or all-knowing or all-loving. Then, when he is all-powerful he won't be so all-present, all-knowing or all-loving. Then when he is all-loving he won't be so all-present or all-powerful or all-knowing. Then, when he is all-knowing he won't be so all-present or all-powerful or all-loving.

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Alec
    I think if God exists, he can't meet all the 4 As

    God doesn't really have to meet all those attributes, to be God. The Omni's are made up terms, even though you see some of those qualities in the Bible and other spiritual texts they aren't really mentioned, at least not all of them. God is a maximal Being, meaning the greatest possible Being. That leaves room for a more complete understanding of God without bringing into the equation contradictions.
    The two I think are the most relevant or are the most accurate are omnipresent and omnipotent, due to the very nature of God. But if I had to pick only one I'd say omnipresent. Meaning there is nowhere something exists where God is not present and nowhere something is taking place where God is not aware of it. That's because we exist within God, God pervades all of creation like the same way we think of energy.


  • ethang5
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    --> @Alec
    I think if God exists, he can't meet all the 4 As(All present,
    What does "all present" mean? That all of Him is present?

    all powerful, all knowing, all loving).
    What does "all loving" mean? God doesn't love sin.

    I don't know if it even states in the bible that these characteristics are true,
    "All present" and "all loving" are not in the bible.

    and if it does state them in the bible, then it could just be God being metaphorical.
    Sure. But if God has no real qualities that no one else has, what makes Him God?

    I think....
    Thanks for telling us what you think, but the bible is not secret, and there is no reason to take what you think as more authoritative than what the bible says.
  • Athias
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    I think if God exists, he can't meet all the 4 As(All present, all powerful, all knowing, all loving).
    Why?

  • Alec
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    --> @Athias
    Why?
    Because the bible has various contradictions in it.  Only non-all knowing people contradict themselves.

    Since knowledge is power, he can't be all powerful either.  If I know how to solve 2+2, I also have the power to solve such an equation.

    If God was all loving, the typical christian wouldn't be going to hell.
  • Jaxalton
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    --> @Alec
    Surely God can be all-loving yet still hate.

  • Athias
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    --> @Alec
    Because the bible has various contradictions in it.  Only non-all knowing people contradict themselves.
    What contradictions?

    Since knowledge is power, he can't be all powerful either.  If I know how to solve 2+2, I also have the power to solve such an equation.
    Having power and exercising it are two different matters. I have the power to kill, thieve, and rape, but I don't.

    If God was all loving, the typical christian wouldn't be going to hell.
    Which Christians have gone to hell?

  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Alec
    I think if God exists, he can't meet all the 4 As(All present, all powerful, all knowing, all loving).  I don't know if it even states in the bible that these characteristics are true, and if it does state them in the bible, then it could just be God being metaphorical.  If he's metaphorical on some other things, then why wouldn't he be metaphorical on claiming to meet the 4 As?
    Hi Alex, thanks for telling us what you think. I am pleased when people think.

    The Bible does use metaphor quite a lot actually. But describing God's attributes is not a metaphor per se. 

    God know all that he needs to know. Or there is nothing that God does not know. I disagree with you that there are contradictions in the Bible. Yes, I am sure you will find things which you "think" are contradictions but that logically does not meet the criteria of a contradiction. 

    God is all powerful. Everything he wants to do - he does. Everything he wills to do, he does. There is nothing that he cannot do that he wants to do. It is not helpful to mix up power with knowledge. Yes they are related but they are also distinguished. Yet, since you cannot describe one thing God does not know then it is a direction that is merely speculative rather than objective. 

    I am not sure that God is all loving. He is certainly compassionate and merciful and also just and good.  God hates sin. He also hates Esau. All true Christians will go to Heaven. Yet this is not a sign of love. It is demonstration of grace and mercy. All people who go to Hell is not a demonstration of God hating - it only demonstrates his justice. 

    I would consider that God is all present. Given he knows all things, this seems to go without outsaying. Yet I would add he is not everything as in the pantheist position - but being present.

    I would add that he also sustains all things. He did not just set things up to go like the clockmaker - deist god - but he ensures and brings to pass all things including the Covid19 virus. the biblical example is Jesus dying on the cross. A good thing or a bad thing. Why is it that Christians call it good Friday if it was a bad thing. 

    Another thing I would add is that God is Holy. This I think is the essence of whom God is. Until we can understand his holiness - none of the As make any difference. 

  • Alec
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    --> @Tradesecret
    But describing God's attributes is not a metaphor per se.
    Why not?

    God know all that he needs to know. Or there is nothing that God does not know. I disagree with you that there are contradictions in the Bible.
    The bible did a whole 180 on policy.  First, it advocated for the death penalty for various actions in the Old testament, such as for breaking any of the 10 points in God's law.  Then, it advocated for a rehabilitation stance as what Jesus basically stood for.  From the death penalty to rehabilitation, the bible has various contradictions between the OT and the NT, as well as in the testaments themselves.  It's okay for God to change his mind, but it means that he isn't all knowing then, and how can we trust that he is now?

    Everything he wills to do, he does. There is nothing that he cannot do that he wants to do
    He wills that we are free from sin.  How'd that work out?

    All people who go to Hell is not a demonstration of God hating - it only demonstrates his justice. 
    Theocratic justice is cruel and unusual punishment; it violates the 4th amendment.  Sending someone to hell for wearing different fabrics violates the 4th amendment.  It shouldn't even be a crime.

    I would add that he also sustains all things.
    He made us dependent on those things.  If a drug dealer hooks you up with cocaine and gives it to you subsequently for free, would it be fair to say that he is the source for your happiness obtained through the drugs?  No.  He is the reason why you are addicted to drugs.  God made humans addicted to food, and in some places in the world; particularly the most christian places in the world; like Africa, he has made them starve to death in many instances; and they obey the bible more frequently than rich westerners.
  • ronjs
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    --> @Alec
    If God didn't have  all these attributes, he wouldn't be much of a God.
  • Alec
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    --> @ronjs
    The Greek gods didn't meet any of these traits, even collectively.  You don't need to meet the traits to be a God.  The definition is: an adored, admired, or influential person.

  • ethang5
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    Theocratic justice is cruel and unusual punishment; it violates the 4th amendment.
    I wonder what God did those quadrillion of eons before the US constitution was written?

    This young man thinks God should be under the US constitution! Ah, America!

    When I was in Africa, I met an American who was angry that people there didn't speak English.

    Alec reminds me of him.

  • Alec
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    --> @ethang5
    I wonder what God did those quadrillion of eons before the US constitution was written?

    <br>

    I would say the constitution is better than a theocracy.  The constitution can be tweaked if enough people support it.  Bible law is set in stone, until God decides to change it, which he has done, confirming that he doesn't know everything.  Also, does God even exist?  If so, I don't see the evidence.  No need in worshiping God if he doesn't exist.  He might though.
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Alec
    But describing God's attributes is not a metaphor per se.
    Why not?
    Is that a serious question? What is an attribute? It is something which is part and parcel of who a person is. It is not like saying he is a strong as an ox. It is saying he is all powerful. When God is described as doing anything he wants to do it is not a metaphor. A metaphor paints a picture - but it is never the same thing. God knows all things - is not a metaphor because it is connected to the entire idea of planning all things and making sure everything works. If God did not know all things, then nothing would work ever. The very fact that someone does know all things means that things do work. Take away this aspect of God and everything stops. 


    God know all that he needs to know. Or there is nothing that God does not know. I disagree with you that there are contradictions in the Bible.
    The bible did a whole 180 on policy.  First, it advocated for the death penalty for various actions in the Old testament, such as for breaking any of the 10 points in God's law.  Then, it advocated for a rehabilitation stance as what Jesus basically stood for.  From the death penalty to rehabilitation, the bible has various contradictions between the OT and the NT, as well as in the testaments themselves.  It's okay for God to change his mind, but it means that he isn't all knowing then, and how can we trust that he is now?
    LOL! Not even close. The bible is consistent entirely from the beginning to the end.  The death penalty is still applicable in the NT - read Romans 13 for a start. Gee even the fact that Jesus DIED on the cross - is an example of the death penalty in the NT. The entire doctrine of Hell is an eternal death penalty. Jesus was not opposed to rehabilitation - but nor was he opposed intrinsically to the Death Penalty. In fact in the OT the death penalty was still only the last resort - and is where the Common Law nations today obtained their doctrine of maximum penalties. Go and read Blackstone's commentaries. Not one contradiction. Very weak effort at best. 


    Everything he wills to do, he does. There is nothing that he cannot do that he wants to do
    He wills that we are free from sin.  How'd that work out?
    LOL! Again I think you are intentionally misleading the discussion. In biblical theology we talk about God's hidden will. We talk about his revealed will. And we talk about human will. God's revealed will is what the Bible tells us is God's will for us. His hidden will is what goes on behind everything. We are not privy to the whys except to know that God will do what he thinks is right.  This hidden will enables everything to happen - including Adam and Eve sinning in the first place - and Jesus dying on the cross. It includes all of us sinning. Hence in God's hidden will we are all sinners. Hence it is not a contradiction. In his revealed will God reveals that sinners receive death for their rewards of sinning. Yet his will also reveals that it is wrong to sin. Hence we know God is opposed to sin and does not desire that men sin. He also gives to us the knowledge of human will. We choose to sin. All of us do. And we are also responsible for this sin that we choose to do. Now the Western mind cannot correlate these things together consistently, anymore than they can put together the notion that Jesus is Fully God and fully Man. The Western mind also finds it impossible to consistently understand the Trinity - ONE GOD and THREE persons. Or that the Bible is written by God and by Man. Or that God makes all things happen and yet man is responsible for his own sin. The eastern mind does not have the same difficulties as the Western mind because they are not caught in the same immovable rock logic.  Hence it is a Western worldview problem - not a biblical nor necessarily impossible logical problem for all people. 

    Hence your statement that God wills that people don't sin is a shallow and simplistic response. No offence but the Christian God is not a two dimensional simplistic thing that can be dismissed in such a way. 

    All people who go to Hell is not a demonstration of God hating - it only demonstrates his justice. 
    Theocratic justice is cruel and unusual punishment; it violates the 4th amendment.  Sending someone to hell for wearing different fabrics violates the 4th amendment.  It shouldn't even be a crime.
    Theocratic Justice  is not cruel and unusual. God was around before the 4th amendment and will be around a long time after it has ended. In my view most western democracies are too immature to have the death penalty. the death penalty is actually a symbol of true progression and maturity. But having said that - theocratic justice is mostly about supporting the victims and restorative justice in the first place. Anyone who reads the OT and its system of theocratic justice cannot help buy be impressed by the way it is thousands of years ahead of its nearest nations of the time. Take the Jubilee system for a start. What an amazing concept. Forgiving debts every seven years. no long term mortgages - This takes the sting out of corrupt officials and banks who take advantage of the weak and oppressed. Freeing slaves - amazing idea for the time but substantially even relevant for us today. So many things - victim's rights. A fused system where the criminal and civil systems are not split. Where the true victim is the real victim and not the State. where justice is done and seen to be done. Where the victim has a real say in what happens to the persons who caused them grievance. It encouraged families, it encouraged people to look after the poor. It encouraged strong and loyal ties to religion and to the True God. It promoted freedom within limitations. Covenant theology. 
    I would add that he also sustains all things.
    He made us dependent on those things.  If a drug dealer hooks you up with cocaine and gives it to you subsequently for free, would it be fair to say that he is the source for your happiness obtained through the drugs?  No.  He is the reason why you are addicted to drugs.  God made humans addicted to food, and in some places in the world; particularly the most christian places in the world; like Africa, he has made them starve to death in many instances; and they obey the bible more frequently than rich westerners.
    Of course we are dependant on those things. LOL! No one just lives all by himself without being dependant on anything else. We need food - we don't need drugs. We need food because we are not God - we are mortal. We live and we die. God is God and humanity is humanity. You prove my point by reminding us of the difference between the two things. you see it as negative - I see it for it is - true and wonderful grace.
  • ethang5
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    --> @Alec
    I would say the constitution is better than a theocracy.
    OK. That still doesn't make God subject to our constitution. And why the US constitution? Other countries have constitutions. You actually believe everyone should be subject to your tastes and desires. Life has some rude surprises coming for you.

    The constitution can be tweaked if enough people support it.  Bible law is set in stone, until God decides to change it, which he has done, confirming that he doesn't know everything.
    So is "Bible law" set in stone or not? You seem confused. Still, nothing you've said here justifies you thinking God should be subject to any constitution.

    Also, does God even exist?  If so, I don't see the evidence.
    And the atheist runs back to his fav obsession. Your thread said, "If God exists...." And IF he does, expecting Him to be "All Loving" or under the laws of His creation is patiently silly.

    No need in worshiping God if he doesn't exist.  He might though.
    Lol. Your train of thought finds staying on the tracks difficult huh? This is the result of a morality based on personal tastes.

     God created me, but now that He has, He ought to obey me and do things the way I like."

    Good luck with that wish Alec.
  • Melcharaz
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    Do you believe that God is in turmoil?