-->
@RoderickSpode
Christians don't read their Bible
Does that include you ?
Christians don't read their Bible
Posts
Total:
154
-->
@zedvictor4
I was not conditioned as you were, therefore Christianity is not convincing....
Critical thinking and logic play no part eh? Just how one was "conditioned"?
If Christianity could be proven to be an accurate hypothesis that would be an enlightening experience, rather than terrifying.
Of course, again, you leave out the, " to me".
Perhaps underneath you're conditioned facade it is you who are are terrified,...
Lol! You are the one freely admitting he is terrified, but you conclude you're not terrified, but the ones so content you have to come attack them on their board, are? Rich.
..because you are patently aware that the fundamental truth, is that belief is not actually proof.
Neither of us has said belief is proof. Maybe your terror is what is hindering your understanding.
Both Jesus and my wife love me. I asked neither of them for "proof" of that love. What sort of "proof" did your wife offer you?
-->
@ethang5
Both Jesus and my wife love me. I asked neither of them for "proof" of that love. What sort of "proof" did your wife offer you?
Can you explain how you're convinced your wife loves you?
-->
@ludofl3x
I felt that love. Just as I did for Jesus. Now years later, I have more proof, but I love Jesus because He first loved me.
-->
@ethang5
You're convinced your wife feels something because YOU feel it? I'm not doubting your wife loves you. I'm just curious as to why you're convinced she does, and saying "well I feel that she does so it must be true" is all you've offered for both Jesus and your wife. How did you know that Jesus loved you, what did you find so convincing?
-->
@ludofl3x
You're convinced your wife feels something because YOU feel it?
No. I'm convinced my wife loves me because I've felt her love. The sense of feeling is like our other senses. When I see, hear, smell, or taste something, I tend to believe its there. Do you often doubt and disregard your senses?
I'm not doubting your wife loves you. I'm just curious as to why you're convinced she does,
What can I say. When I see her form, I'm convinced she's there. When I hear her voice, I'm convinced she spoke, when I feel her love, I'm convinced she loves me. How is it different for you?
...and saying "well I feel that she does so it must be true" is all you've offered for both Jesus and your wife.
That isn't what I said. I did not say, "I feel she does." I said I feel her love. Just like I see her grace. And smell her scent. And hear her voice. I'm talking about my senses, not about what she does.
How did you know that Jesus loved you, what did you find so convincing?
I've told you. His love. He loved me, and it made me want to love Him back. His love felt great, and I wanted more. I'm not "offering" you anything, I'm not applying for your belief. I'm answering your questions. Your belief or disbelief makes no difference to the reality of Jesus' love for me. Though I wonder why you would doubt one of my senses.
Jhn 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself
Jhn 10:14 - “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me —
Jesus Christ
-->
@ethang5
What makes you think that I am terrified?...And what do you think that it is, that terrifies me?
Prove your particular GOD and I will be enlightened.
And what is your board?.....This is a global debating website open to 7.6 billion people (approx), none of whom will agree with everything that ethang5 says....This is not a Christian pat on the back club.
And what is love, actually?....Other than a multifarious descriptive we apply to a wide variety of thoughts.
Maybe you think that Jesus and Mrs Ethan love you and that you love them....But other than within your head, your thoughts are meaningless.
-->
@ethang5
You're convinced your wife feels something because YOU feel it?No. I'm convinced my wife loves me because I've felt her love.
Your reply states clearly you're convinced she feels something (love for you) because you feel her love. You then go on to cite various physical verification of her presence, which is more a case of that she is there. If you're not trying to convince anyone, why are you on a debate site? There are plenty of Jesus Love sites, and you probably won't get banned every couple of weeks from those.
-->
@zedvictor4
What makes you think that I am terrified?
Your post #59.
If Christianity could be proven to be an accurate hypothesis that would be an enlightening experience, rather than terrifying.
You claim Christianity has not proven to be an accurate hypothesis, thus it is NOT an enlightening experience, rather, a terrifying one. See, I pay attention to what you say.
And what do you think that it is, that terrifies me?
The reality of God. The same thing that terrifies all of you militants and peoples you to come to a religion board and set up a homestead. A living God is a terror. I get your fear.
And what is your board?
This is a religion board. You are an atheist. You say religion is myth, false, irrational. Yet here you sit, day after day.
Maybe you think that Jesus and Mrs Ethan love you and that you love them....But other than within your head, your thoughts are meaningless.
I agree. Jesus though, is not. And I give meaning to the love of Mrs. Ethan. Christians have been the ones telling you atheists that other than within your head, your thoughts are meaningless. Yet you keep telling us your thoughts. Who cares? You must, cause you're here asking me about it.
There is a reason your worldview is fringe Z-man.
-->@Ludo
Your reply states clearly you're convinced she feels something (love for you) because you feel her love.
Just as I'm convinced she said something because I hear her voice. Is that illogical to you?
You then go on to cite various physical verification of her presence, which is more a case of that she is there. If you're not trying to convince anyone, why are you on a debate site?
I am here on the religion board first to commune with other Christians, than to learn of different points of view, and to defend Christian doctrine. You approached me with questions.
There are plenty of Jesus Love sites,...
This isn't a Jesus love site. It's a religion board. And I am religious. Why are you here? No "nothing love" sites?
...and you probably won't get banned every couple of weeks from those.
I am dissatisfied with a life of mediocrity. Having nothing worth dying for is having nothing worth living for.
I think I'll survive being banned from a little inconsequential site in the boondocks of the net. But its nice that you care.
-->
@ludofl3x
You're convinced your wife feels something because YOU feel it? I'm not doubting your wife loves you. I'm just curious as to why you're convinced she does, and saying "well I feel that she does so it must be true" is all you've offered for both Jesus and your wife. How did you know that Jesus loved you, what did you find so convincing?
You're not sure if your parents love/loved you?
-->
@ethang5
Nope...Your post #58....It was you who introduced an assumed terror to the thread....A very disingenuous and unworthy twisting of words Mr Ethan.
And why would the reality of a GOD be terrifying anyway.....An actual GOD would be an actual GOD and to know this would be enlightening....But as no one actually knows, then terror and/or enlightenment are currently irrelevant.....I would suggest that believing but not actually knowing is perhaps more stressful than scepticism.
And as I explained previously, this isn't a religious board...A religious board is your flight of fancy Mr Non-Groupthink.....This is an online debating forum and does exactly what it says on the tin....So expect a certain amount of scepticism.
It was you who introduced an assumed terror to the thread
You corroborated in post #59. You said
If Christianity could be proven to be an accurate hypothesis that would be an enlightening experience, rather than terrifying.
So, what was twisted?
I would suggest that believing but not actually knowing is perhaps more stressful than scepticism.
And again I'll tell you that your perceptions are not reality.
And as I explained previously, this isn't a religious board..
OK slick. Perhaps you should alert Viet that the board is incorrectly named. Lol!
So expect a certain amount of scepticism.
I don't mind scepticism. I just wonder why an avowed atheist would spend so much time on what he calls a naive, simplistic myth. I said,
You are terrified that if you concede that Christianity is convincing, you will be conceding that it's true. But fear is never a good basis for an argument.
It still isn't.
-->
@RoderickSpode
You're not sure if your parents love/loved you?
My parents act in a way consistent with loving, of course I was sure. Moreover, other people could also tell my parents love me by witnessing how they treated me. I don't get your question.
-->
@ethang5
All I did was state an obvious, objective truth, "Christianity is convincing. It's relative success at convincing people is proof that it is eminently convincing."
But surely Christianity is convincing only to those who want to be convinced.
To anybody else, anything about Christianity is about as convincing as Trump wearing a facemask.
But surely Christianity is convincing only to those who want to be convinced.
Hey Einstein, If they want to be convinced, then they don't need to be convinced. Perhaps you should brush up on the definition of convinced.
To anybody else,....
You mean the minority of people on earth?
...anything about Christianity is about as convincing as Trump wearing a facemask.
And yet you're in the fringe minority. Weird huh?
-->
@ethang5
..........If they want to be convinced, then they don't need to be convinced.
Oh yes, they do.
It is the nature of those who have weak, gullible, vacillating minds to be told what to believe.
Similarly, it is those who have a penchant for taking control of others for the benefit of their own nefarious ends to uncannily sniff out others walking around with dopey grins and glazed, fixed eyes in order to do a bit of "convincing".
And of course, those who have been convinced are further convinced to go along to "convincing centres" every Sunday in order to stay convinced that if they don't stay convinced, they will end up in a convincingly hot place for eternity.
...If they want to be convinced, then they don't need to be convinced.
Oh yes, they do.
No they don't. You're bitter and ignorant that's all.
It is the nature of those who have weak, gullible, vacillating minds to be told what to believe.
I think weak, gullible, vacillating people are the ones who keep breaking into websites they once claimed they would never go to. Weak, gullible, vacillating people are the ones who keep posting the same bitter spam over and over.
...they will end up in a convincingly hot place for eternity.
You've already been banned. You're so pathetic, you have made a fake account more than 30 times now, and so obsessed, you immediately rush to me to post the same tired stupidity you've posted for years.
Please, please address your mental illness.
(the wlsw was a clue, but the "weak, gullible, vacillating minds" stupidity was classic willows)
-->
@ethang5
It would be wrong to suggest that anyone reporting and exposing the horrors of the Holocaust is ignorant and bitter.
Similarly, I think it is important to report and expose the truth about religion.
My argument that those who believe in God are gullible, impressionable and naive has been fully confirmed by authoritative research and the fact that they (believers in God) are clearly deluded.
Of course, just as there are Holocaust deniers there will be religious truth deniers and it is very telling in each case how guilt rears its ugly head in the form of vitriol and personal attacks for want of a valid response.
It's a bit like road rage really.
The guilty party is always the loudest.
-->
@wlsw9
It would be wrong to suggest that anyone reporting and exposing the horrors of the Holocaust is ignorant and bitter. Similarly, I think it is important to report and expose the truth about religion.
Characterize your OCD any way you like. No one is fooled. You don't need to be an obsessive jerk to expose and report.
My argument that those who believe in God are gullible, impressionable and naive has been fully confirmed by authoritative research and the fact that they (believers in God) are clearly deluded.
Then why have you needed to spam it over and over for 7 years? Why must you violate the rules of a private site to do so? Is Dart your only outlet? How come the only one behaving gullible, impressionable and naive has been you? Why will you dodge all these questions?
You are here because you are an obsessed compulsive moron, and I am your obsession's focus. You are mentally ill and rationalize it by the absurd notion that you're reporting and exposing the truth about religion.
The guilty party is always the loudest.
No jasper, the guilty party is the crook who breaks in again after he's been deported. That would be you.
-->
@ludofl3x
My parents act in a way consistent with loving, of course I was sure. Moreover, other people could also tell my parents love me by witnessing how they treated me. I don't get your question.
Maybe I misunderstood you, but it appeared that you were questioning Ethan on how he knows that Jesus loves him, and how he knows his wife loves him. I took it to imply that Ethan cannot (or possibly should not) really be sure that not only Jesus loves him, but his own wife. Thus the question as to how sure are you that your parents love you.
Am I missing something?
-->
@RoderickSpode
My assumption was that his wife acted in aw ay that would lead him to believe he was loved by her, and if so then how is Jesus's love similar to that. What's he DO? But apparently her 'grace' is what makes him convinced of her love, not her actions.
-->
@ludofl3x
My assumption was that his wife acted in aw ay that would lead him to believe he was loved by her, and if so then how is Jesus's love similar to that.
That was you assumption and that's fine, but my focus was on what I felt, not what she (or Jesus) did. Many people who didn't love me did the same things to me that my mother did, so it cannot be based only on actions. One must feel the love.
What's he DO?
He loves me.
But apparently her 'grace' is what makes him convinced of her love, not her actions.
Again, your bias makes you confuse your assumptions for my truth. Here is what I said,...
I did not say, "I feel she does." I said I feel her love. Just like I see her grace. And smell her scent. And hear her voice. I'm talking about my senses, not about what she does.
I did not say she did nothing, that is just your frustration at not being able to turn our exchange into a "does God exist" cliché.
So what makes me convinced of her love is the love I FEEL from her, that is why I don't fall into bed with any woman that does what my wife does, like say, cook for me. Sure my wife does loving things, but do you love everyone who does loving things to you?
You won't answer that, you've dodged all my questions to you. As usual, you want to be the only one asking questions and making assumptions as if I'm the one hiding something. This is supposed to be a conversation, a dialogue. If you won't answer my questions, why do you think yours deserve being answered?
Is it that you see yourself as interrogator, and I the defendant? Or that I am not worthy of answers? Many times I would dismiss such arrogance but for the fact that I know many Gentle Reader who never comment, desire answers.
-->
@ethang5
but do you love everyone who does loving things to you?
This is the only no rhetorical question marks in your post. The answer to this question is "no."
I really don't care if you answer my questions, I think we all know who you are by now. You compare the love of Jesus with the love of your wife, I asked questions designed to demonstrate how the two are similar, and you've not done that in any way, as usual, but you pretend you have. Good work buddy!
-->
@ludofl3x
I really don't care if you answer my questions,
I care. I like to be open, accessible, and honest. That is why I try to answer all questions.
I think we all know who you are by now.
Do you all wear name tags?
You compare the love of Jesus with the love of your wife,...
No Sir. I compared my ability to feel both of their love. I did not say their love was similar.
I asked questions designed to demonstrate how the two are similar,
Why? I did not say they were similar. I said I could feel them both.
and you've not done that in any way, as usual,
Why should I? There is no reason I should show they are similar when they aren't.
...but you pretend you have. Good work buddy!
Lol. You get confused but I'm at fault? I keep yelling you I'm talking about what I feel, and you keep insisting I'm talking about their actions. At some point I just have to accept that you don't want to understand.
-->
@ethang5
So then how are the loves of Jesus and your wife different? Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were mentioning your wife loving you because it was a real love, I thought you were connecting that in some way to a real love of Jesus and how you feel both.
-->
@ludofl3x
So then how are the loves of Jesus and your wife different?
One is romantic love, the other is divine love. In some languages, there are different words for love. But I fail to see how this matters to my argument as I can FEEL both just the same.
Maybe I misunderstood, I thought you were mentioning your wife loving you because it was a real love,
No, I was mentioning my wife loving me because it was a what I felt, the realness was tangential.
I thought you were connecting that in some way to a real love of Jesus and how you feel both.
I do feel both, but I was not trying to prove God exists. Your first question to me was...
"Can you explain how you're convinced your wife loves you?"
And I told you, because I can FEEL it. Since then your goalpost has shifted as you kept trying to Shepard the dialogue into me giving you proof God existed. This is why you now say you thought my question to you, "how do you know your wife loves you?" was rhetorical.
I thought you were connecting that in some way to a real love of Jesus and how you feel both.
I was connecting how I feel both. The feeling I connected, not the love.
17 days later
-->
@RoderickSpode
Christians don't read their Bible Or, most Christians don't read their Bible.
Does that include you?
-->
@RoderickSpode
This statement might be meant to reflect the disconnect between the typical conceptualization of the Christian god and the god found in the pages of the Bible. No doubt, you'll want to argue there is no disconnect. However, I'll point out god-concepts are most-often formed by upbringing and reinforcing passages long before an objective reading of the text can occur. (Ie. Indoctrination)
In short, the conceptualization is given priority and textual dissonance is wrongly dismissed as tone-deafness in the reader or critic. This is ironic since the text (not the personal conception) is alleged to be the literal word of god.
7 days later
-->
@SkepticalOne
This statement might be meant to reflect the disconnect between the typical conceptualization of the Christian god and the god found in the pages of the Bible. No doubt, you'll want to argue there is no disconnect. However, I'll point out god-concepts are most-often formed by upbringing and reinforcing passages long before an objective reading of the text can occur. (Ie. Indoctrination)
Are God concepts always formed by upbringing and reinforcing passages long before an objective reading of the text can occur?
The obvious problem here is trying to make something a rule that has numerous exceptions.
Sure, there's the guy who was indoctrinated at an early age into the doctrines of a specific church, or denomination. But the world is full of relatively new converts that read the bible objectively.....out of necessity.
The underground church in China for instance were not indoctrinated by missionaries. For a foreign missionary to take the Gospel into China was a death sentence. I know one missionary who went to China during it's heavy persecution era, and has to live in Hong Kong where it's safer for believers.
In short, the conceptualization is given priority and textual dissonance is wrongly dismissed as tone-deafness in the reader or critic. This is ironic since the text (not the personal conception) is alleged to be the literal word of god.
Can you give me an example?