Why are people tearing down certain statues?

Author: TheUnderdog ,

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  • TheUnderdog
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    I can understand tearing down statues of confederate soldiers, although I would try and make a buck off of it by selling the statues to the highest museum bidder.

    But why are we tearing own statues of Abraham Lincoln and Jesus?  Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves from slavery and Jesus freed us from hell.


  • Dr.Franklin
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    because they dont like history
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    ok, so a few fringe voices in a massive movement call for something weird. That is pretty much inevitable. There are lots of voices in right wing movements that call for white supremacy. I'm sure if I looked I could find a couple that wanted to bring back slavery outright. But these people do not represent the movement as a whole. But right wing groups are working hard trying to find the most extreme cases they can to paint everyone as extremists. Like when they called 10's of thousands of peaceful protesters "antifa" and "terrorists" because a few people carried out violence. 

    specifically, he that guy doesn't seem to be calling for statues of jesus being torn down. He is calling for statues of a white jesus to be torn down. Jesus was middle eastern. He wasn't white. But racists prefer to see a white "saviour" than the ethnicity he really was. So I can at least understand his underlying point. But i don't particularly see the value in tearing down the statues. 
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    because they dont like history
    no. If history was important to people then there would be no statues of a white jesus. Jesus wasn't white. So calling for inaccurate statues to be torn down is actually much more in line with protecting history. 

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    who gives a shit what race he is? thats not protecting "history" its a religious symbol


  • TheDredPriateRoberts
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    the taliban did it, incase you don't remember, destroy things you don't like, temples, churches etc it's been that way for centuries, whatever the reason is claimed, the real goal is the same, erase the visuals so people will forget,  it's not that dissimilar from Orwell 1984
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    They are trying to destroy all monuments of white people to destroy white history 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    no. If history was important to people then there would be no statues of a white jesus. Jesus wasn't white. So calling for inaccurate statues to be torn down is actually much more in line with protecting history. 
    Ohhh... they want to be historically accurate. I’d bet they are tearing these statues down because nobody was actually 15ft tall and made of marble. Good catch!
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    who gives a shit what race he is? thats not protecting "history" its a religious symbol
    lol you literally just said they were tearing it down "because they dont like history".


    And again, I don't agree that it would help. But i can see where they are coming from. If it is just a religious symbol, then why wouldn't they make jesus the correct ethnicity? Why intentionally change his ethnicity to being white? There is a reason they did that. 

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Ohhh... they want to be historically accurate. I’d bet they are tearing these statues down because nobody was actually 15ft tall and made of marble. Good catch!
    I never said it was about history. Dr.Franklin said that. I was pointing out how dumb that is. It isn't about history. It is about the racist undertones of changing the race of jesus to make him white when he was very obviously middle eastern. 

    They are trying to destroy all monuments of white people to destroy white history 
    Jesus wasn't white. So this is obviously not an accurate statement. 
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
     It is about the racist undertones of changing the race of jesus to make him white when he was very obviously middle eastern. 
    Multiple races changed the race of Jesus so that He is easier to identify with. There is nothing wrong with having different races for this. There is a black one, an Asian one, etc.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Multiple races changed the race of Jesus so that He is easier to identify with. There is nothing wrong with having different races for this. There is a black one, an Asian one, etc.
    ok. so people change the race of their god because they don't like that he might be a different race. That is not a good thing. Either he is the son of god (and his race is irrelevant) or he isn't. If he is, then display him like he was. If he's not, then why worship him?

    Making him white because you are not comfortable with what he really looked like is racist. 

  • TheUnderdog
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Statues of Jesus aren't white because they thought Jesus was white.  They are white because granite, or whatever rock was used happens to be white.
  • oromagi
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    I strongly disagree with the wonton destruction of any artwork, public or any private. I never would have supported the installment of neo-confederate monuments and I understand that their primary purpose was to humiliate and intimidate the underclass and exalt white dominion over those people but all art serves as a document of a time, place, and perspective.  We don’t destroy the document just because the perspective has evolved.  In a democracy, we are supposed to be well practiced in the tolerance of offensive even oppressive points of views. We should be able to recontextualize offensive art without destroying offensive art. I am sympathetic that some might resent the expenditure of taxpayer funds on offensive art but I would advocate tolerance and if tolerance can be summoned then defunding or removal from public contexts might be considered.    Destruction by mob and vandal is immoral and anti-democratic and violence in any context.  Abraham Lincoln should be memorialized as a great American.  I’d oppose spending tax money on any religious statuary but would likewise oppose the destruction of any religions sacred symbols or art in any public context
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @TheUnderdog
    Statues of Jesus aren't white because they thought Jesus was white.  They are white because granite, or whatever rock was used happens to be white.
    i'm sure there are cases where that is true. But you and I both know that jesus is portrayed as white intentionally. I mean look at this statue. That guy is white. They were not restricted by materials. They didn't just make it with marble. They intentionally depict a white jesus. That is the point. 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    they dont know history, why would they damage lincoln memorial
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Here's a mural of Jesus from the late 4th century:


    Not so terribly different from modern Western depictions of Him.

    And here's a black Jesus with a full afro from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church:

    https://www.alamy.com/jesus-christ-surrounded-by-thetetramorph-or-four-beasts-top-right-the-eagle-of-stjohn-rock-hewn-church-petros-and-paulus-melehayzengi-ethiopia-image187390240.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=090BB5CB-8093-49F7-9AB5-63DB22ADA057&p=53965&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dethiopian%2520orthodox%2520church%2520jesus%26qt_raw%3dethiopian%2520orthodox%2520church%2520jesus%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    they dont know history, why would they damage lincoln memorial
    no idea. I haven't seen any information that discusses why they would do that. 

  • Swagnarok
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    And finally, East Asian depiction of Jesus from the middle ages:


    Epicanthic folds are a little too pronounced there, much more than you would expect from a 1st century Judaean man.

    Oh and look, they're still doing the same thing today:


    I guess Chinese people are racist.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Swagnarok
    Not so terribly different from modern Western depictions of Him.
    That depiction has virtually no color in it. They are could be limited by the materials at their disposal. It is also entirely possible that this depiction has not held it's coloring properly over the last 1500 years.

    also, if you read the caption it explicitly says the artistic style of this is intentionally different from how he was depicted before. It also is a reflection of race tensions. They were intentionally making him look less roman, which was the previously accepted style. 


    But that doesn't really explain the modern depictions of him as being caucasian, which he obviously wasn't. 

    And here's a black Jesus with a full afro from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church:
    ok, this is racist too. It is exactly the same thing europeans did. 

    I guess Chinese people are racist.
     chinese people can be pretty racist. What is with this "whataboutism"? Just because other people do it, it's fine for christians to do it?
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    None of it's racist. One point churches always try to get across is that Jesus was a man like us (while also God) and He was sent for the sake of all people across all time. Therefore, all people across all time should be able to relate to His humanity, which is accomplished by depicting Him in a way that's relatable to any given audience. Christian missionaries, in disseminating Gospel literature to children in remote parts of the world, often draw Jesus as having an appearance similar to the local peoples. I've seen an example of this at my local church once. But in a Western setting, for an ethnic European audience, that has traditionally taken the form of a white Jesus. There's nothing wrong with that so long as the members of one race don't believe that Jesus belongs exclusively to them.
  • Swagnarok
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    That depiction has virtually no color in it. They are could be limited by the materials at their disposal. It is also entirely possible that this depiction has not held it's coloring properly over the last 1500 years.
    So if He's black or brown, that's what the depiction originally looked like but if He's white then you'll just say the color didn't hold? There's no way for me to win that debate, I guess.

    also, if you read the caption it explicitly says the artistic style of this is intentionally different from how he was depicted before. It also is a reflection of race tensions. They were intentionally making him look less roman, which was the previously accepted style. 
    More Jewish and less Roman. It clearly wasn't whitewashing and the main difference was beard or no beard, not skin color.

  • Dr.Franklin
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    so I am right
  • Greyparrot
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    Tearing down the statues is just a physical manifestation of the toxic cancel culture the left has cultivated in their dystopian Marxist university Petri dishes.

    50 years from now after the Marxist left loses the next civil war, the normal Americans will erect statues of Al Sharpton, Jussie Smollett, and Bubba Wallace while flying BLM flags to appease the mob and facilitate reconstruction, only to be torn down 100 years from now when the American culture decides it no longer wants or needs to worship statues of controversial race-baiters.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    God was made in the “image of man”, so it is pretty logical to make him look like you. 

    But even with all of that aside, Jesus could have been any race, not necessarily even Middle Eastern, because he was the “Son of God” literally. And, since Christians believe in an all-powerful God, that means he could have been born white no matter what the mother’s race was.

    If black churches want a black Jesus statue and on stained glass windows, they are free to do that if that helps them identify with Jesus more.