I will bet you.

Author: secularmerlin

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Mopac
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@secularmerlin
Gaming cause and effect to get good or bad results. Karma. Nothing fantastical.

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@Mopac
Doing "good", whatever you consider that to be, is not observable guaranteed to provide "beneficial" results, whatever you consider that to be, as harmful and tragic things happen to good and bad people with relatively equal frequency regardless of the standard you wish to use for those distinctions. 
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@secularmerlin
I already sent you ten money. 

But since there is no intrinsic value, I don't think you noticed.
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@FaustianJustice
That is fair consider your debt paid in full.
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@secularmerlin
That is precisely what I am saying.

Every action has intended and unintended repercussions.

For example, if you intend to do only "good", you can not avoid the "evil" that comes from doing what you think is good.








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@Mopac
Both good and evil are subjective but I know it is very difficult to do no harm and trying to promote wellbeing doesn't cancel this out or keep the promoter from harm.
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@secularmerlin
If Truth is good and evil falsehood, morality looks very different.

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@Mopac
What do you mean by falsehood is evil? Do you mean the act of telling a lie? If so are you including unintentional lies told through ignorance? Or did you mean that which does not exist is evil?


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@secularmerlin
"let God be true, but every man a liar"

"we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."



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@Mopac
Unless you can demonstrate that the bible is an authority on truth this is unconnected with our discussion. Now I ask again and this time please answer plainly rather than quoting unconnected source material what do you mean by falsehood is evil? Do you mean the act of telling a lie? If so are you including unintentional lies told through ignorance? Or did you mean that which does not exist is evil?
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@secularmerlin
It's very related to what we are talking about. Do you have a problem when people quote anything else?


But I will bring it back home.

Money exists. It is a reality. It is true. Simply by existing, it has intrinsic value. It is after all, not nothing. It registers as something other than nothing. It has distinctness from nothing. You notice it as something.

There its value.

That and you can exchange it for stuff. You ever hear the phrase, and I'm sorry if you have an aversion to quotes "everything is worth what its purchaser pays for it"?

Well, people are willing to pay me stuff to take my money. I think that counts for something.

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@Mopac
Sorry but what does that have to do with "good" and "evil"? Also we assigned value to money just as we assign value to anything. Really nothing has value, not even our lives, objectively. Objectively a human and a rock have equal importance to the universe. When viewed from the subjective viewpoint of our human awareness this changes however because as humans we tend to find ourselves and other humans more valuable than inanimate objects.

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I'm mean sure, money doesn't have an intrinsic value. But this is like saying, "the sky isnt actually blue,"

Just seems like something pseudo-intellectuals would say to be edgelords.

Most value isn't intrinsic if there even is such a thing as "intrinsic value" in actualty. But that doesnt really say anything about the relevance and importance of a money/monetary systems. 
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@Buddamoose
I'm not sure but I think you owe me ten money. Or an equivalent value in goods or services. I'll let you work it off. Now money is valueless in and of itself so that will be 0 hours of work. Oh you seem already to be done. 

Good game.
Mopac
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@secularmerlin
Nothing has value. Everything is meaningless.

You don't think things are at least worth what they are?


What is value? 


It's all arbitrary vapidness, eh?

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@secularmerlin
I never agreed to the bet hombre. I gief you zero money  😂
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@Mopac
Value is subjective too the observer. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Without an observer there is no value. If you are willing to pay five to seven money for a frapalatemochachinoamericano then that is what one is worth to you. If I think they are overpriced, overly sweet and generally undesirable refusing to drink them on those grounds and prefering plain black coffee to a frapalatemochachinoamericano then they are worthless to me. This can be subjectively true of anything even the relative value of life over inanimate objects. In fact people kill each other over inanimate objects with frightening regularity so there is clearly something to my hypothesis.

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@Buddamoose
But you already did the zero hours of work. You can't undo it. I'm afraid it's all done already.

(I violated your rights {another subjective made up value} 😈)
Mopac
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@secularmerlin
Does money exist without an observer?

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@Mopac
Physical trinkets, like slips of paper or metal discs, exist without an observer (If anything physical exists) without someone to decide that these objects are currency they are not money so no money doesn't exist absent an observer.
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@secularmerlin
Since physics is the study of causality and objects that exist dependent on an observer have an effect on causality, couldn't you say that these observer dependent objects are physical?

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@Mopac
Physical trinkets, like slips of paper or metal discs, exist without an observer (If anything physical exists) without someone to decide that these objects are currency they are not money so no money doesn't exist absent an observer.

A metal disc is not money unless we agree that it is a coin.
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@secularmerlin
You know something. You think you're some funny little joker or something but I will tell you the fucking truth right here right now:

You're blatantly someone who grew up middle class. If you are upper class, you'd know this isn't true and if you'd actually ever been through real shit, you'd know how much lack of money can ruin your life's quality and that money doesn't buy happiness, it buys the means to then generate happiness if you use it right.

You have never ever known real pain and suffering and clearly have lived a cushy enough life to remain oblivious to it all. People like you are the only type who ever end up being this anti-money preacher.
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@RationalMadman
You take everything too seriously and make too many unfounded unprovable assumptions to be taken seriously. At least this is the impression I've gotten from our interactions on this sight. Your so focused on "winning" (whatever that means) that you seem to have forgotten that the whole point of debate is to showcase opposing ideologies. It's a tool of learning and understanding. Also just so we are clear made up constructs, like money, government, or social status can have huge effects on one's life. That doesn't mean they exist outside our collective agreement that they do. 
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@secularmerlin
Wow so smart, ten moneys we are learning and understanding teeheee I win ten moneys pay me not intrinsic value!!!!

Yeah yeah, learning and not winning, got it.

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@RationalMadman
See what I mean about taking things too seriously. Lighten up buddy, and try to remember that there isn't a funny forum.
Mopac
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@secularmerlin

If you don't have any standards, does that mean there is no intrinsic value to anything?
Is having no standards a standard?
I don't know.

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@Mopac
I have subjective standards. There are no objective standards.
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@secularmerlin
Wouldn't you say then that you objectively have subjective standards?

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@Mopac
No I wouldn't.