Why is trump insisting that schools should reopen this fall?

Author: n8nrgmi ,

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  • n8nrgmi
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    he said if schools dont reopen, they will lose funding. i mean, i'm not one to say let's blame this virus thing on trump, but here he is crossing a line. even if kids aren't as likely to get sick and die, they will still carry the disease to others who will get sick and die. betsy devous was shown that, but she refused to acknowledge it, saying she didn't think it'd be a big deal. obviously, for some states, it is a big deal. besides, this is a state issue, which should be the conservative par for course.

    i mean, i'm really at a loss at why trump is doing this. he's smart enough to start wearing a mask in public. why isn't he smart enough to let states decide their own thing? this seems like an obvious self inflicted wound on his part, at least as far as i can see. 
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    Trump is doubling down on the bet he has been making. Trump knows that incumbent presidents ruling over a prosperous country win re-election. He wants to convince people that the country is doing great, so they should vote for him. that is why he tried to downplay the pandemic (ie it will go away in a week, it will go away when it gets hot, etc). Forcing the states to re-open their economies and forcing the schools to re-open is an attempt to try to force life to return to normal. If people feel like things are getting back to normal, then he is more likely to hold onto the presidency. 

    This kind of thing has worked for him before. For example, Mueller found he obstructed justice like 10 times. But he just repeated "mueller witch hunt" and "total exoneration" over and over and over and over until people started to believe that he was actually exonerated. He wants to do that again. Just tell people everything is under control, tell them everything is fine until people just believe it. 

    The problem is that this has worked in the past for things no one can actually see for themselves, or at least things they can look away from. People can choose not to pay attention to trump's crimes in office. People can tune out the actual findings of Mueller and just listen to what trump and fox tell them. But people are experiencing corona virus 1st hand. People are getting sick all over the place. 138,000 people are dead. A huge number more have become seriously ill, some suffering permanent health complications. This isn't the sort of thing that people can just tune out. Trump has seriously screwed himself. 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    Because Trump is making the government hold to the claim it said in March that they MUST shutdown the country to protect hospitals.

    Hospitals are fine now.

    Kids need to go back to school, and at-risk people need to be quarantined, including at-risk teachers.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Hospitals are fine now.
    in some areas they are. In some areas (like texas) they are at the breaking point. 

    Kids need to go back to school, and at-risk people need to be quarantined, including at-risk teachers.
    sending kids back to schools without sweeping safety changes is a death sentence for thousands, if not 10's of thousands of people. Trump is willing to let those people die in a vain attempt to win re-election. 
  • n8nrgmi
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    --> @Greyparrot
    so you think it's okay that kids get the disease and pass it to frail people who will get sick and die? by the tens of thousands, if not be a catalyst to millions dying?
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    If those frail people don't choose to quarantine themselves, why should the kids suffer?

    It's a legitimate question nobody wants to ask or answer.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    If those frail people don't choose to quarantine themselves, why should the kids suffer?

    It's a legitimate question nobody wants to ask or answer.
    lots of kids live with people with health conditions. Those people don't get a choice about quarantining. Most people with health conditions need to interact with people at least somewhat. IE getting food. If the grocery store clerk got covid from his kid, he can easily pass it on to people buying groceries. 

    But I again feel I need to point out, it isn't just frail people that die from this. Alot of otherwise healthy people have died from Covid. Many more have been made horribly sick, many of those now have permanent impacts to their health, particularly to their lungs. 

    Even if we could somehow completely isolate every "frail" person in the country (which we cant). Alot of people will still die if covid spreads out of control. And once the hospitals exceed capacity, then the death rate goes through the roof as people can't get sufficient medical care. Thats when you see large numbers of young people start dying from covid. 
  • Greyparrot
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    Those people don't get a choice about quarantining. 

    Sure they do. They can fuck their own child over by removing the child from school without fucking over the 99% of the other kids.
  • Greyparrot
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     Alot of otherwise healthy people have died from Covid. 
    Exactly how many kids in the USA 10 and younger died from COVID only?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Sure they do. They can fuck their own child over by removing the child from school without fucking over the 99% of the other kids.
    that doesn't really address the rest of my point though. They will still need to be able to get food, medication etc. And if children are free spreading the virus to their friends and families, then you get a mass outbreak and these peoples lives are in extreme danger. 

    Also, the virus can be extremely dangerous to people who are otherwise healthy. It can make them extremely ill including permanent negative effects to their health. If the virus spreads then hospitals get overwhelmed and people who would otherwise survive the virus start dying. 

  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Exactly how many kids 10 and younger died from COVID only?
    this is an intentional dodge and you know it. You want to distract from the rest of my point. Sending kids back to schools without significant safety upgrades risks a massive increase is cases which could kill 10's of thousands of people. Does it make it better that lots of children will survive passing the disease to their parents and killing them?

  • Greyparrot
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    They will still need to be able to get food, medication etc. 

    Then they are not quarantining themselves by choice. Food can be delivered so can drugs. They are choosing to fuck the kids over.

    this is an intentional dodge and you know it. You want to distract from the rest of my point.

    Which is what? That kids can catch Covid and die? 
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Then they are not quarantining themselves by choice. Food can be delivered so can drugs. They are choosing to fuck the kids over.
    again, you are ignoring the rest of my point in an attempt to say "fuck you frail people" to justify doing something extremely dangerous. 

  • Greyparrot
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    Yeah cause kids don't get to make that choice. Old frail people don't have that excuse, so fuck them for being irresponsible with the lives of children.

    If they wanna do that to their own child, fine. But let the other kids with healthy parents live a normal life. Misery doesn't need company during a viral pandemic.

    Also, the virus can be extremely dangerous to people who are otherwise healthy.
    What EXACTLY are the chances a 20-40 year old parent in good shape will die to COVID only?
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Yeah cause kids don't get to make that choice.
    No they don't. We as adults need to make the choices for them. And I would think learning from home, or dead parents would be a pretty easy choice to make. 

    Old frail people don't have that excuse, so fuck them for being irresponsible with the lives of children.
    As I keep explaineing to you and you keep ignoring, Covid kills lots of people who are neither old nor frail. You repeating the same tired talking point over and over does not make it any more effective. 

    If they wanna do that to their own child, fine. But let the other kids with healthy parents live a normal life. Misery doesn't need company during a viral pandemic.
    ok, but that "normal life" then causes a massive outbreak of covid. That causes 10's of thousands of deaths and more lockdowns to try to get it under control. That doesn't help anyone. That doesn't get us back to a "normal life" faster. It only drags it out and causes this to last longer. 
  • Greyparrot
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    What EXACTLY are the chances a 20-40 year old parent in good shape will die to COVID only?
  • n8nrgmi
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    i think the only way to explain why trump is insisting on this, is because he actually thinks kids won't cause signficant virus spread. that's clearly a stupid thought, though. shows poor judgment on his part. or maybe like buff said, trump is just hoping things will look 'normal' if people go back to normal life, and if milliions die, well, it's spread over time so maybe it dont look so bad. instead of poor judgment, it's immorality on his part. i see no virtue in what trump is doing here. 
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    What EXACTLY are the chances a 20-40 year old parent in good shape will die to COVID only?
    I don't have exact stats on that. Alot of the data isn't divided up that way. But cases are spiking. Hospitals in some states are almost at the breaking point. Several states are having record rates of new cases. The outbreak is worse than it has ever been. Once hospitals reach capacity, all cases requiring hospitalization become life threatening because proper medical care is no longer available. 
  • HistoryBuff
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    i see no virtue in what trump is doing here. 
    of course not. For there to be virtue, trump would have to have virtue. Donald does what he thinks is best for Donald. He doesn't care how many people die. He doesn't care how many people are permanently injured from Covid. He only cares about himself, and winning the election. If he has to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of people, that is a small cost to him because he simply doesn't value their lives. If the pandemic is perceived to drag on, he will definitely lose the election. so he is desperate to make people perceive it as things being back to "normal", even as the bodies pile up. 

  • Greyparrot
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    I don't have exact stats on that. 

    Interesting. Yet you act on the fears that you do have that info.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Interesting. Yet you act on the fears that you do have that info.
    I'm choosing to act on the advice of doctors during a health crisis. You are choosing to act on the advice of reality TV personality who is clearly in cognitive decline. 

    Besides, even if absolutely no one in that age range normally died of covid, once the hospitals fill up, which they already are, then everyone who gets hospitalized is now in mortal danger. If the outbreaks in places like florida, texas or arizona continue to get worse, then the death rate is going to spike. 

  • Greyparrot
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    I'm choosing to act on the advice of doctors during a health crisis.
    I don't have exact stats on that. 

    Apparently, doctors, that don't have the info you need to make that call.
  • HistoryBuff
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    Apparently, doctors, that don't have the info you need to make that call.
    so because I personally don't have specific stats on how many 20-40 year old die of covid, we should recklessly push to reopen schools and the economy during a record breaking covid spike? That makes no sense at all. 

    Doctors have been warning us this whole time that reopening too fast would fuel a 2nd wave. Well I guess you are can rub it in their face that they were wrong because we didn't actually get to a second wave. We never got the 1st one under control before dumping gas on that fire. Pushing forward with more re-openings during a massive spike in covid cases is insane. Especially without taking significant steps to keep people safe like Denmark did. 

  • Greyparrot
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    I mean I get why it's fine to act on the advice of doctors that won't tell you that important bit of information. Millions of Americans are doing exactly what you are doing.
  • ILikePie5
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    American Pediatric Association said in person school should be the top priority of schools. So are they wrong or is the science they follow wrong?