i dont think the federal government is dysfunctional, do you?

Author: n8nrgmi ,

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  • n8nrgmi
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    it does a lot of things that serve society. a great military, lots of safety regulations, a basic safety net. and such. there is a lot of partisanship, but i wouldn't call it dysfunction, just people with different world views. there is surely some dysfunction on the edges, like trump attacking the EPA and not enforcing some rules, but i would say generally there is a coherent EPA except on the edges
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    It's just too big.
  • ILikePie5
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    --> @Greyparrot
    It's just too big.
    +1000000000
  • MisterChris
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    To echo Pie and Greyparrot,  bloated bureaucracy and the blatant nonobservance of the Constitution does not help, but for the moment it is functional. 

    Problem is, the above problems are getting worse, as is partisanship. Something needs to change soon or domestic terrorism and civil conflict will eventually ensue. 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @MisterChris
    When it becomes near impossible to protect a Federal courthouse, the government is too big.
  • n8nrgmi
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    when it comes to the debt, id say the government is dysfunctional.... but on balance, overall, id say it's a functional government 
  • ebuc
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    Bill Clinton balanced the federal budge, as best as I can recall.

    Bush Jr sent us in a nose dive and Regan raised taxes --as they all do--.

    Obama pulled us out of the worse financial crisis.

    Don Trumpets corrupt immoral practices have cost the US more than an other president, even when ratio of fiscal considerations over time.

    Ex is uttery mismangement of covid19 costs skyrocketed not going to get better anytime soon.

    Republicans send economy into tailspin, and democrats pull us out.  We need to get the loony tunes out of state and federal office for starters.

    Then we need to address more global issues, that will get any candidate thrown in jail, cause it puts global concerns above USA only ---short-sided--  concerns.






  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    When it becomes near impossible to protect a Federal courthouse, the government is too big.
    those 2 things are not related at all. The building was under threat because the government isn't doing enough to help black people. If anything the response to this is that we need more government assistance, not less. 
  • Greyparrot
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    those 2 things are not related at all.

    What 2 things?

    Federal government has one main job. Protection.

    Stealing from people that work isn't a main function of a civilized government.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Federal government has one main job. Protection.
    no. it has lots of jobs. For example, building roads, schools etc. 

    Stealing from people that work isn't a main function of a civilized government.
    taxation (which I assume you are referring to) is a function of every civilized government. No government can exist without it. 


  • Greyparrot
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    no. it has lots of jobs.

    That's a problem.

    When the Federal government has so many jobs it can't provide adequate protection for a Federal courthouse, there is something fundamentally broken.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    taxation (which I assume you are referring to) is a function of every civilized government. No government can exist without it. 

    it's not a main function of government though, nor is the way the USA taxes working people necessary. Nobody elects a person that promises to steal from them.

    The government also doesn't need to rely on confiscatory taxes or sin taxes directed toward the man that works too much.

    A national sales tax combined with partial or total user fees for services (like postage stamps and tolls for roads) could easily fund a government enough to protect the people without the oppression of the working man.

    Another idea would be to confiscate the wealth of criminals in jail to pay for the police.
  • ILikePie5
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    --> @Greyparrot
    If a government can’t protect federal courthouses (the seats of justice) then how can the govt provide justice for black people lol
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @ILikePie5
    If a government can’t protect federal courthouses (the seats of justice) then how can the govt provide justice for black people lol

    No peace, no justice. Alveda King said that.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @ILikePie5
    Another idea to get away from oppressive taxes on the working man is to partially fund the military with government licenses for doing international trade, since a large portion of our military protects international trade. Another example of user fees.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    When the Federal government has so many jobs it can't provide adequate protection for a Federal courthouse, there is something fundamentally broken.
    why? The problem is that they aren't doing one of those jobs (making sure police aren't racist, abusive dicks) properly. This requires the government to take steps to improve the situation. 

    taxation (which I assume you are referring to) is a function of every civilized government. No government can exist without it. 
    it's not a main function of government though, nor is the way the USA taxes working people necessary. Nobody elects a person that promises to steal from them.
    This makes no sense. Every election promise ever made by anyone has cost money. Without taxation, the government can do absolutely nothing. So without taxes, you have no government. You have no democracy. You have anarchy. 

    The government also doesn't need to rely on confiscatory taxes or sin taxes directed toward the man that works too much.
    we can debate which types of taxes are better than others. But you appear to be saying all taxes are bad, which is ridiculous. 

    A national sales tax combined with partial or total user fees for services (like postage stamps and tolls for roads) could easily fund a government enough to protect the people without the oppression of the working man.
    no, it could fund a bare minimum government which isn't capable of helping anyone. this would allow the rich to basically fuck over anyone they want, whenever they want and the poor die in the streets. 

    Another idea would be to confiscate the wealth of criminals in jail to pay for the police.
    ok, but the legal system already disproportionately targets and punishes poor people. So this would basically just add on to the already broken system where rich people have no consequences while the poor are punished. 
  • Greyparrot
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    why? The problem is that they aren't doing one of those jobs (making sure police aren't racist, abusive dicks) properly. This requires the government to take steps to improve the situation. 

    if the Government had only one job, protection, then they wouldn't have the opportunity to be racist.

    Too many jobs makes racism thrive.

    #defund the government
  • Greyparrot
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     it could fund a bare minimum government which isn't capable of helping anyone.
    Or capable of hurting anyone.

    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @n8nrgmi
    it is but local and state governments arent and thats where the bulk of political power is
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @ebuc
    obama pulled us out of the recession with the slowerst recovery in history
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    if the Government had only one job, protection, then they wouldn't have the opportunity to be racist.
    they also couldn't do anything about racism either. And since police are presumably the job of "protection" that you are talking about, they would still be in charge of this kind of racism. So you don't really seem to have a relevant point. 

    it could fund a bare minimum government which isn't capable of helping anyone.
    Or capable of hurting anyone.
    ok. and children won't get to go to school. And corporations will be able to pollute our country. And the rich will will have absolutely no counter weight to their power. Just because you take power away from an institution that you have some level of control over, does not make that power disappear. You simply lose control over the people who gain that power. 
  • Greyparrot
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    ok. and children won't get to go to school.

    What a joke. Kids already can't go to the school the parents want to send them.
    The government has denied equal access to quality schools 66 years after Brown vs Board of education. Nothing much has changed.
    Talk about systemic racism...

    #defundgovernment

    they would still be in charge of this kind of racism. So you don't really seem to have a relevant point. 

    Because it's more important for violent gangs in Chicago and Antifa to be in charge of policing racism.

    #defundgovernment

    And the rich will will have absolutely no counter weight to their power.

    Pelosi's fridge seems heavy.
    #defundgovernment...
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    What a joke. Kids already can't go to the school the parents want to send them.
    why?

    The government has denied equal access to quality schools 66 years after Brown vs Board of education. Nothing much has changed.
    so you think that schools and parents should be allowed to openly racially discriminate? That is the argument you want to make?

    Because it's more important for violent gangs in Chicago and Antifa to be in charge of policing racism.
    there is no evidence antifa is significantly involved in the protests. There is however evidence that white supremacists have been going out and starting violence to try to blame BLM though. 

    Pelosi's fridge seems heavy.
    #defundgovernment...
    this doesn't even make sense. So an elected member of government makes enough to buy food, somehow that means we should cut off all government services and give up all power to corporations and billionaires? Are you under the impression that makes any sense?
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @ILikePie5
    State propaganda vandalized in Marxist cxities.

    Government is way too big if it has the resources to paint marxist state propaganda on public streets.

    #defundgovernment
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Government is way too big if it has the resources to paint marxist state propaganda on public streets.

    #defundgovernment

    ahh i see. so don't bother to respond to why your ideas make no sense, you just keep repeating the same slogans and nonsense. Well for an ideology that is terrible, i guess that is the best you can do with it.