Is Oromagi Better than Ragnar?

Author: BearMan ,

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  • BearMan
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    In terms of skill level, are you better than Ragnar?
  • Ragnar
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    Yeah. He surpassed me awhile ago.
  • Intelligence_06
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    --> @oromagi
            
  • oromagi
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    --> @Intelligence_06
    I call that false modesty on Ragnar part.  Consider he had an undefeated record on a site with thousands of active and experienced debaters- orders of magnitude greater degree of difficulty. I think anybody can beat anybody under the right circumstances but I  assume Ragnar could hand me my ass  in any more formal venue or traditional resolution. He has ten times my experience and excels at deduction.  I think I’m pretty good at style and originality but in the world of formal debate I think those abilities count for less while Ragnar’s skills weigh heavier. 

    I’d say 9 times in 10, Ragnar would win. 


  • SupaDudz
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    --> @oromagi
    It could also be you just being humble
  • RationalMadman
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    Oromagi and Ragnar are literally the same because what one lacks in one way the other has in another. They both take the easiest side of any debate, mitigate the need to meet any BoP whatsoever, use 'well renowned' opinions and references to 'respected' officials to back up their claims and beat their opponents by weight of backing up what they said.

    The only time the two have clashed it seems is when Ragnar defeated Oromagi on a debate where the resolution clearly was interpreted differently by both:


    In this debate, the sole voter who decided the winner was someone who literally has only voted 8 times (and on DDO voting rules were far more lax than here, meaning that he hardly had to try hard, it clearly was a completely casual bystander who happened to take an eye to the topic) https://www.debate.org/Dragonfang/

    Ragnar won by the most ridiculous things ever, for instance he got the 'more reliable sources vote' for quite literally no reason (but that passes as okay in DDO rules) on top of that, this was a debate held almost exactly 7 years ago today (Started: 8/5/2013 in American date format used on DDO). The idea that this proves either is genuinely above the other is prepostrous. Both very clearly thought they had the easier side of the debate and both indeed used the very same tactic of making the other side seem ridiculous rather than trying to make their own seem perfectly reasonable (but Oromagi does the latter better while Ragnar does the former better so it makes sense that Ragnar outdid Oromagi slightly, given that on top of them both being in Ragnar's element it further helped that Ragnar was on the more destructive and less constructive side of the debate).

    Frankly, I think Ragnar presents his arguments much better than Oromagi does. When I read Oromagi's debates they give a headache, the whole bold and unerlining thing and typing PRO and CON as capitals over and over again is disorienting and an eyesore. Ragnar puts much more effort into eye-pleasing and if this debate site had images, it would be clearer the edge that Ragnar and I have over Oromagi in that department. Oromagi is better at building a case than most debaters are, it's always been his edge. His weakness is in reacting to the opponent and dismantling their case rather than just saying his is the more sensible one.
  • BearMan
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    RM

    Thanks for your interpretation.
  • Crocodile
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    None of the best leaderboard debaters actually "debate" (Trent being the sole exception). They are completely resolution based.

    Oromagi wouldn't be a very good lawyer in my opinion.
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @oromagi @Ragnar
    If oromagi gets to 100-0 and Ragnar is undefeated, I say they duke it out on either a live debate, or one of the biggest debates in site history
  • Intelligence_06
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    --> @Crocodile
    None of the best leaderboard debaters actually "debate" (Trent being the sole exception). They are completely resolution based.

    Oromagi wouldn't be a very good lawyer in my opinion.
    What do you mean by "debate"? Evidence-based?

    Trent's arguments honestly sound more like an infographic than everyone else's at his level.

  • oromagi
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    --> @SupaDudz
    --> @oromagi @Ragnar
    If oromagi gets to 100-0 and Ragnar is undefeated, I say they duke it out on either a live debate, or one of the biggest debates in site history
    Whiteflame very nicely asked me for this slot two days ago.  I told him I felt like Ragnar had right of first refusal and Ragnar has already replied that his time is crunched at present. 

    IF we get there (and RM is working overtime to make sure we don't get there so I don't like my odds), I will offer again to Ragnar and if he still  says no then whiteflame will get to pop that particular hypothetical and figurative cherry.
  • oromagi
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    --> @Crocodile @Intelligence_06
    I love Trent's debate style.   It's like let's take two pages from an almanac and analyze.  Short, sweet, and very CIA.
  • Intelligence_06
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    --> @oromagi
    To summarize, ragnar’s format is to take an organized tank troop then attack with it.

    RM’s is taking whatever is left with the army and win battles with it.

    Trent’s is like building a fort in an obsolete place, the  defend it.
  • Trent0405
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    --> @oromagi
    I love Trent's debate style.   It's like let's take two pages from an almanac and analyze.  Short, sweet, and very CIA.
    Thank you Oro!!! I too enjoy the structured and orderly arguments you present in your discussions. : )
  • VonKlempter
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    --> @oromagi
    I remember you saying that Ragnar had beat you a couple of times back when you guys where in Debate.org.
  • Ragnar
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    --> @VonKlempter
    I beat him on a two-round self driving cars debate. Chiefly, I thought his time table for the switch was way too fast.

    Hypothetically if we engaged in the same debate today, I would still stand a good chance at winning... However, it would not be the same one, as he would have a more conservative time estimate (oh gosh, it's been 7 years... ok, maybe the same time estimate would now apply).

  • oromagi
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    --> @Ragnar
    oh gosh, it's been 7 years... ok, maybe the same time estimate would now apply
    Yep.  The first big wave of driverless cars is still about 5 years out, same as seven years ago.  I can't adequately express my disappointment.  I am still holding on to the same old Honda Element waiting for the fast cheap driverless alternative to kick in.

    Now I'd argue that the heat death of the universe is more likely to occlude the demand for driverless.
  • Ragnar
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    --> @oromagi
    Don't feel bad about the delay on cars, since they are still improving in that time. We're starting to have some autopilots for highway driving.