Kyle Rittenhouse

Author: Death23 ,

Topic's posts

Posts in total: 102
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    Self defense or murder? Seen the videos? Any opinions?
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Death23
    that's a tough one imo, my current opinion is self defense, he was on the ground being attacked.  there could be other charges for laws he might have broken, but from what I have seen/heard he was actually running or walking away, was pursued and being attacked while on the ground, I'm not sure how it could not be seen as self defense.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 10,330
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    Eh who has time for courts in 2020? Let's go burn stuff.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 10,330
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts

    Democrats intimidating political opposition since 2016. Putin is pleased.

  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Greyparrot
    so tolerant
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 10,330
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    It's funny how the media is spinning people having guns as terrorists for having guns but the "peaceful protestors" beating the shit out of others and sometimes killing people without a gun is just fine.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 10,330
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    You remember the leftist chant "white silence is violence?"

    What about Joe Biden's silence on all these riots???


  • SupaDudz
    SupaDudz avatar
    Debates: 30
    Forum posts: 12,561
    5
    8
    11
    SupaDudz avatar
    SupaDudz
    Tough one as well. I am neutral. At one point, he was being attacked, but at the same time, he shot them in the head. You don't aim for the head, you aim for the foot or a non lethal part of the body in general. This happened in my town recently with a kid 16yr old kid who stabbed a kid because he was getting curbstomped. He used a knife and stabbed him in the stomach. Anyway, I don't think he was a registered carrier as well, so I think it's murder IMO.
  • SupaDudz
    SupaDudz avatar
    Debates: 30
    Forum posts: 12,561
    5
    8
    11
    SupaDudz avatar
    SupaDudz
    Also a gun is much more lethal than a skateboard
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 10,330
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @SupaDudz
    Yeah, unfortunately, the courts don't see it that way. Bringing a gun to a knife fight is still not illegal.

    But by all means, continue supporting street justice.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Greyparrot
    defund the police and we will police ourselves......isn't that what they wanted?  "be careful what you ask for" someone should have told them.
  • SupaDudz
    SupaDudz avatar
    Debates: 30
    Forum posts: 12,561
    5
    8
    11
    SupaDudz avatar
    SupaDudz
    --> @Greyparrot
    I am confused by which are you referring to street justice for? Rittenhouse or the skateboarder
  • Trent0405
    Trent0405 avatar
    Debates: 32
    Forum posts: 462
    3
    8
    11
    Trent0405 avatar
    Trent0405
    IDK, I think that I would have acted similarly in his situation, although I probably wouldn't have brought a gun in the first place, but that's beside the point. I am convinced that his actions can certainly be justified, but it's not an easy cut and dry issue.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    that's a tough one imo, my current opinion is self defense, he was on the ground being attacked.  there could be other charges for laws he might have broken, but from what I have seen/heard he was actually running or walking away, was pursued and being attacked while on the ground, I'm not sure how it could not be seen as self defense.
    From what I've read, the standard for use of deadly force in self defense there apparently is that the use of deadly force must be objectively necessary to prevent "great bodily harm" (not just any harm). Ohio isn't a "stand your ground" state, but there's no "duty to retreat" either. Though, if you can get away safely, it is part of the things the jury considers when determining whether or not the use of force is necessary.

    I'm having difficulty seeing that an objectively reasonable belief of imminent great bodily harm can be formed based on what Rittenhouse observed. The first shooting is the one I'm having a hard time with. According to a witness, Rosenbaum began to approach Rittenhouse, who then began to running away and the chase ensued. At some point, Rosenbaum threw an object at Rittenhouse. It was shortly after the object was thrown that Rittenhouse began to turn and shoot. So, I'm thinking the Rittenhouse's decision to shoot rather than continue to run was heavily influenced by that object being thrown. I don't know what that object was. I can't tell from the video, and the prosecutor says it was a "plastic bag", but plastic bags don't move like that. (at least not the ones in the grocery store) Rittenhouse was close enough to see what the object was and the object was well-illuminated by the light. He was also looking in the right direction to see it.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @SupaDudz
    I am mostly thinking about the first shooting rather than the second one. I think the self-defense privilege in the second one may largely depend on whether or not the first one was self defense, though I haven't double checked that. (It was the first shooting that "activated" the angry mob, which led to the second shooting)
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Death23
    watch this if you haven't guy in white shirt runs up behind him and hits him in the head, probably something in his hand


    I don't see anyone being shot until he's on the ground, the one guy tried to jump stomp him, guy with skateboard  looks like he hit him, dunno but looks self defense from that video.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    Yes, but you're talking about the second shooting when he was on his back being chased by an angry mob, with some of them tackling him and attacking. It is clear that he could not run because he was on the ground and that the angry mob intended to inflict great bodily harm upon him. They were out for blood after the first shooting. If you listen to what the mob was saying it was clear what their intentions were. "Get him! Fuck him! Get that guy! He shot somebody!"

    I'm talking about the first shooting where he was being chased by a single person whose intentions seemed unclear. He fired when he was on his feet, not his back.
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Death23
    I'm not sure which shooting you are talking about I guess, the 2 dead and the 1 injured all happened from the general area when he was on the ground afaik.

    Let's assume they were chasing him because he shot someone, does he still not have the right to defend himself?

    watch the video again, he only shoots while he's on the ground, unless I'm missing something.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    I will PM you the link.
  • Greyparrot
    Greyparrot avatar
    Debates: 2
    Forum posts: 10,330
    3
    3
    8
    Greyparrot avatar
    Greyparrot
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    So sad "street justice" is allowed in the dystopias. Where are the police?
  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Death23
    so I think we are talking about 2 different incidents, the one the news keeps showing is the one when he is on the ground which I think is self defense, the video you sent I can't see enough or much of anything to form a real opinion about it.  I'll have to wait for more on the first person who died in that video.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    You can see that one person was chasing him, but others were not. You can see that the person who was chasing him threw an object at Rittenhouse, and then continued to chase him. You can also see that the shooting started very shortly after the object was thrown. So, the thrown object was probably a big factor in Rittenhouse's thinking. If it had been a brick or a knife, I think that would signify an intent to inflict great bodily harm. Though, if it had been a pillow, I don't think that would be very threatening. The prosecutor says it was a "plastic bag", but I don't believe that. Maybe it was a newspaper in plastic? I mean, that's what's usually there.

    Yeah, I can't really form an opinion on it either right now. There's just not enough context.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    This article may provide context, though bear in mind that it's the prosecution's version of events.

  • TheDredPriateRoberts
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    Debates: 0
    Forum posts: 3,360
    3
    3
    6
    TheDredPriateRoberts avatar
    TheDredPriateRoberts
    --> @Death23
    it's hard to know what is true at this point, but if that article is accurate/true then a really good case for self defense can be made imo.
  • Death23
    Death23 avatar
    Debates: 24
    Forum posts: 618
    3
    4
    7
    Death23 avatar
    Death23
    --> @TheDredPriateRoberts
    The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

    (14)“Great bodily harm" means bodily injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes serious permanent disfigurement, or which causes a permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily member or organ or other serious bodily injury.

    In the link I PM'd you you can see the object that was thrown more closely in the video that begins at 4:00. It does look like a plastic bag with something inside of it. I don't think that being thrown is sufficient to have substantially changed things. Though, I mean, Rosenbaum was chasing Rittenhouse and trying to rob him, albeit apparently unarmed. Could Rittenhouse have continued to run? Could he have fired warning shots? I didn't see him yell for help. It did look like he could have continued to run.

    I think it is obvious that Rittenhouse was defending himself from a threat. The issue is whether or not the significance of that threat rose to the level where the use of deadly force was warranted, and also whether or not there were viable alternatives. For example, it did look like Rittenhouse could have maintained the status quo of the chase by continuing to run. I also did not see that Rittenhouse attempted to yell for help from the people.