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@SkepticalOne
Theology is the study of the nature of God.
I believe that how theology understands God is important to this discussion.
Evidence For The Existence of God
Posts
Total:
196
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@Goldtop
In plain English the sentence does not seem to be wrong. I'm unsure of what the redundant portion ("when you run away") is supposed to confirm (",right?") in your mind. So that I might be clear, Plisken has not reached any agreement with another member at this time so nobody owes Plisken anything, regardless of the setting for the time being. Not answering a question would not necessarily void a future arrangement in light of its respective relationship. Plisken is not interested in any terms Goldtop may be proposing at this time. Plisken is not accepting, endorsing, or consenting to any ethics, or order that Goldtop may be inviting, proposing, abiding, or otherwise be held to.
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@Plisken
So, you refer to yourself in the third person?
Plisken is not interested in any terms Goldtop may be proposing at this time.
Exactly, just like you're not interested in answering questions. Please continue your monologue with Plisken, whoever he may be. Lol.
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@Goldtop
I found the handles suitable for reasons of my own, (example-privacy) none of which allude to how I refer to myself in person, and they've not proven insufficient.So, you refer to yourself in third person?
Exactly just like you are not interested in answering questions.
Is this just a false accusation or intended for some sort of reaction?
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@Plisken
Yes, I can see that.I found the handles suitable for reasons of my own
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@Goldtop
Okay, why did you say that and tag my handle? That could come across three ways off the top of my head.
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@Mopac
Theology is the study of the nature of God.
And yet according to you the only thing you can know about your god is that it is the ultimate reality. That is all there is to the subject "theology".
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@Goldtop
Based on the definition of "Evidence", what compelling evidence can you offer for the likelihood of God's existence?Contrary to that, what compelling evidence can you offer for the likelihood of God's non-existence?Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened.Evidence is the information which is used in a court of law to try to prove something. Evidence is obtained from documents, objects, or witnesses.
1. The Bible is observable and readable. From it, you are told of God's dealings with humanity from creation. Prophecy is a good reason to believe the accounts are true and the prophecies really happened.
The Bible, from beginning to end, claims to be a revelation from the Supreme Being. It has thousands of references to Him speaking. He speaks directly and indirectly, through visions, through prophets via signs and confirmations of what they would see and witness, or what those after them would witness.
Take for instance Daniel 9:24-27. It was written before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. It had detailed wording of things that would happen before the end specified. These things apply to an Old Mosaic Covenant people that do not exist in covenant after AD 70. The entire OT speaks of warnings of coming judgment or curses for disobedience to the Mosaic covenant as laid out in Deuteronomy 28:15 onwards. Many prophets are sent to Israel to warn them to turn from their ways or God will bring final judgment on them and end their covenant and bring in a better covenant that is also open to Gentiles.
Daniel 2 gives Daniel's people specifics of four kingdoms that will conquer them before the everlasting kingdom is put in place. Many scholars agree the fourth and final worldly kingdom spoken of is the Roman Empire.
Many prophecies identify a Messiah who would be sent to Israel. Such passages as Isaiah 53 or Zechariah 12:10, Malachi 3-4 apply to this Messiah and that before the end of the covenant age. That age ends with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70.
2. The most identifiable signs are the coming of the Promised One - the Messiah and the destruction of the temple and city. The evidence is that these signs were fulfilled. So they bring a reliability to the biblical writings.
3. The Gospels and epistles speak of eyewitnesses to the life, ministry, death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. This Person fulfils approximately 300 OT prophecies. With the coming of the Messiah, the NT focuses on the coming wrath of God on these OT people and the coming of the kingdom of heaven. Every NT writing has warnings that are near, soon, coming quickly, at hand to these Mosaic covenant people.
The testimony of these documents bears witness to this Person fulfilling everything that was written in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the writings of the OT.
So, these documents we call the Bible do provide evidence and proof of their claims that is most reasonable to believe in the Person of God they speak of throughout the entire Bible. All these claims by the secular world that there is no evidence is a smoke screen to muddy the waters and create doubt.
What is more, the descriptions provided in the Bible are credible to what an almighty God would be like in character and attributes. This God provides reasons for existence, morality, experience, life, truth, and epistemology that you cannot make sense of ultimately by natural processes unless He exists.
For instance, how does consciousness come from non-cognitive, mindless unsentient matter?
How can you get morality from subjective, limited human beings - relativism?
What is the truth about the origins of the universe? Which scientific view is true to what is?
How do you know what you know regarding these things?
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@Goldtop
Based on the definition of "Evidence", what compelling evidence can you offer for the likelihood of God's existence?Contrary to that, what compelling evidence can you offer for the likelihood of God's non-existence?
It depends of what you understand by God. As far as I'm concerned, you believe God is a sort of dude whom you can go with for some drinks. Nothing further from the truth.
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@IlDiavolo
Then by all means, you must be the expert on God, tell us all about it?As far as I'm concerned, you believe God is a sort of dude whom you can go with for some drinks. Nothing further from the truth.
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@Goldtop
I can explain you about God, I mean the term God, how it appeared and evolved through time. I think you should figure that out by yourself, but to be honest I believe you're incapable to do so.
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@IlDiavolo
Oh I see, you actually don't know anything more about God than anyone else, which makes your comment look utterly foolish. Well done. That was a good chuckle.
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@PGA2.0
The Bible is observable and readable. From it, you are told of God's dealings with humanity from creation.
And what jolly dealings there are.
Samuel 1: 15-3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
Yes sounds like a good god doesn't he. "women, children and infants" .
“But of the cities of these people,which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth”:Deu: 20:16.
"save alive nothing that breatheth"
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@PGA2.0
Once again, the Bible was written by men who never witnessed creation. Anything they came up with has to assumed to be from their own deluded minds.The Bible is observable and readable. From it, you are told of God's dealings with humanity from creation.
For instance, how does consciousness come from non-cognitive, mindless unsentient matter?How can you get morality from subjective, limited human beings - relativism?What is the truth about the origins of the universe? Which scientific view is true to what is?How do you know what you know regarding these things?
Consciousness is a product of the brain, which has evolved over many millions of years. Humans are not the only animal with consciousness.
Morality comes from trial and error, people living together and societies building over time. They find out what works and what doesn't.
The origins of the universe are being studied by scientists who still have a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, so many centuries of religious mindsets in humans has stifled and oppressed the thinking mind.
We know from evidence these things, something your religious beliefs lack.
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@Stephen
The Bible is observable and readable. From it, you are told of God's dealings with humanity from creation.And what jolly dealings there are.Samuel 1: 15-3Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"Yes sounds like a good god doesn't he. "women, children and infants" .
1) This is what happens when people fail to take the greater context into consideration.
1 Samuel 15:2
2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt.
If you look back you will see what Amalek did to the Israelites and if you look forward you see how they influenced the Israelites to turn away from God, as well as threatening Israel. God is being just and also looking out for the long-term interests of Israel, through whom the Messiah will come.
8 He captured Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword. 9 But Saul and the people spared Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were not willing to destroy them utterly; but everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed.
Disobeying the Lord God cost Saul his kingdom. Saul did what was right in his own eyes (moral relativism), just like it cost Adam that close relationship with God in the Garden. God separated Adam from His close presence and it set the conditions for humanity because we inherit the same sinful nature of Adam.
Disobeying the Lord God cost Saul his kingdom. Saul did what was right in his own eyes (moral relativism), just like it cost Adam that close relationship with God in the Garden. God separated Adam from His close presence and it set the conditions for humanity because we inherit the same sinful nature of Adam.
2) The Lord God was judging the Amalekites for their sin:
1 Samuel 15:18-19
18 and the Lord sent you on a mission, and said, ‘Go and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are exterminated.’ 19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the Lord, but rushed upon the spoil and did what was evil in the sight of the Lord?”
There is nothing wrong with a judgment of wrongful actions. We are told of the personal sin of the Amalekite king further in 1 Samuel 15.
32 Then Samuel said, “Bring me Agag, the king of the Amalekites.” And Agag came to him cheerfully. And Agag said, “Surely the bitterness of death is past.” 33 But Samuel said, “As your sword has made women childless, so shall your mother be childless among women.” And Samuel hewed Agag to pieces before the Lord at Gilgal.
Amalek was offering child sacrifice, an abomination to God.
3) The Amalekites left kept plundering the Israelites and threatening their well-being until David put a stop to them doing so, per 1 Samuel 30:18. They were constantly against Israel as their actions show. They still lived in the land of Israel in the days of Hezekiah, as we are told in 1 Chronicles 4:43.
3) The Amalekites left kept plundering the Israelites and threatening their well-being until David put a stop to them doing so, per 1 Samuel 30:18. They were constantly against Israel as their actions show. They still lived in the land of Israel in the days of Hezekiah, as we are told in 1 Chronicles 4:43.
So David recovered all that the Amalekites had taken, and rescued his two wives.
43 They [under Hezekiah] destroyed the remnant of the Amalekites who escaped, and have lived there to this day.
4) If God takes an INNOCENT life (such as a child) He will resurrect and restore it.
***
“But of the cities of these people,which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth”:Deu: 20:16."save alive nothing that breatheth"
These Amalekites would not obey God. God knew that. They would continue to sin and some, such as the Amalekites and Canaanites practiced child sacrifice. They would not respect the Israelites claim that He is the God of gods, and thus needs to be obeyed. Thus they would resist at every opportunity.
Two other things:
10 “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. 11 If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. 12 However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. 13 When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. 14 Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you.
You might not think this is merciful, but in ANE cultures the women and children would have a hard time surviving. And God does not apply the standard to the Amalekites and others who practiced child sacrifice and other atrocities.
AND HERE IS THE ANSWER:
17 But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you, 18 so that they may not teach you to do according to all their detestable things which they have done for their gods, so that you would sin against the Lord your God.
Verse 18 answers the question for destroying some cultural groups completely. They were to be destroyed utterly because they were evil and they would teach the Israelites evil if some of them were spared. These cultures would also introduce their foreign gods (which they did throughout the OT as it bears witness). That is why God brought final judgment on OT Israel. Their disobedience cost them their relationship with God (although God saved the righteous remnant.
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@Goldtop
The Bible is observable and readable. From it, you are told of God's dealings with humanity from creation.Once again, the Bible was written by men who never witnessed creation. Anything they came up with has to assumed to be from their own deluded minds.
We all start with foundational beliefs that everything else is built upon. I presuppose God as the reason and can make sense of origins. There is no sense to be made from a mindless universe. That is not a comfortable thought. If that is what you want to rest your belief on then so be it.
Is it reasonable to believe in God? What are the choices?
1) An infinite universe?
2) A created universe?
3) A chance universe?
4) it's all an illusion?
5) I don't care?
What is reasonable of these five?
It is REASONABLE and LOGICAL to believe that if there is a God and He created the universe and chose to reveal this information to us, then we have reason and logic.
The alternatives are all illogical and irrational. Now, you can live holding the irrational and illogical if you want. Without God, it's all relative and subjective and you will never find the ultimate truth because the universe has no truth to it. Truth only comes from a state of mind discovering God's thoughts after Him, IMO.
For instance, how does consciousness come from non-cognitive, mindless unsentient matter?How can you get morality from subjective, limited human beings - relativism?What is the truth about the origins of the universe? Which scientific view is true to what is?How do you know what you know regarding these things?[1] Consciousness is a product of the brain, which has evolved over many millions of years. [2] Humans are not the only animal with consciousness.[3] Morality comes from trial and error, people living together and societies building over time. [4] They find out what works and what doesn't.[5] The origins of the universe are being studied by scientists who still have a lot of work to do. [6] Unfortunately, so many centuries of religious mindsets in humans has stifled and oppressed the thinking mind.[7] We know from evidence these things, something your religious beliefs lack.
[1] That doesn't explain how. I have read that no scientist knows how. It is speculation. Is that true or can you explain how consciousness is derived from matter devoid of it (and with reasonable certainty)?
[2] I object to the label of humans as animals. We are different. The Bible gives a reason. We are created in the image and likeness of our Maker. Thus we can reason and use logic, love and have relationships, build and create, like no animal.
[3] Since you state an absolute so will I. No, it does not. Morality to an atheist worldview is a relative thing. It is based on preference and behaviorism. You can't get an ought from an is, a prescriptive from a descriptive. You can describe what you like (subjectivism/behaviorism) but that doesn't make it good, and the problem with relativism is that no society or culture can be any better than any other. If you hold a materialistic worldview then truth and values are measured through the five senses. How can you measure goodness through those senses (the descriptive)? Values can't be measured by the same token.
Repugnant Hitler's Germany is no more wrong than Kim Jong-un's North Korea or Trump's USA. Each to its own and many opposite values is contrasted by these relative values. Moral relativism can't say another society is wrong since these rules are contrived by society or those in power. Logically that is inconsistent between individuals and societies or cultures. Within a country, you can have a myriad of subcultures with their own values that defies the Law of Identity as well as the Law of Non-contradiction. You can't get good from moral relativism. All you can get is preference. There is a big difference between a preference and a moral value. A preference is subjective (I like ice-cream). A moral is an objective (murder is wrong) if it has an objective source (the only way to make sense of morality). Preferences can be applied to others as a collective, thus it is not just your subject preference but the majority preference.
Repugnant Hitler's Germany is no more wrong than Kim Jong-un's North Korea or Trump's USA. Each to its own and many opposite values is contrasted by these relative values. Moral relativism can't say another society is wrong since these rules are contrived by society or those in power. Logically that is inconsistent between individuals and societies or cultures. Within a country, you can have a myriad of subcultures with their own values that defies the Law of Identity as well as the Law of Non-contradiction. You can't get good from moral relativism. All you can get is preference. There is a big difference between a preference and a moral value. A preference is subjective (I like ice-cream). A moral is an objective (murder is wrong) if it has an objective source (the only way to make sense of morality). Preferences can be applied to others as a collective, thus it is not just your subject preference but the majority preference.
Moral relativism lacks a best that is not contrived and it begs the question of why your good is better (or even good) as opposed to another individual or social convention that states the opposite.
[4] Actually what is suppressing thought is leftist propaganda and ideology. Also, the Age of Reason and Darwinian evolution shifted the paradigm of how humanity looks at origins. As Scott Klusendorf said while defending pro-life, "If you have the facts, pound the facts. If you don't have the facts, pound the table, and make an emotional appeal by poisoning the well.
[5] Another way of saying we don't have the answers.
[6] And since the 17th-century humanity has been the measure. The thing about the Bible is that its truths still apply. Your confirmational bias doesn't see that.
[7] This is simply not true. The Christian faith is built on historical evidence and prophecy. There is a unity to the 66 different books and 44 different authors that is profound.
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@PGA2.0
We all start with foundational beliefs that everything else is built upon.
Foundations are not built on beliefs, they are built on the natural world around us, which is why we have science, to help us learn and understand our world and how it affects us.
I presuppose God as the reason and can make sense of origins.
No, you don't presuppose anything, it's all written down for you by people who had no clue of the world around, who were steeped in myths and superstitions, believed magic existed and had no concept of how to gain knowledge or what to do with it. It's how people lived and behaved centuries ago, not today.
There is no sense to be made from a mindless universe.
The universe is mindless, its not a giant brain. Its made of dust and gas and many other compounds, none of them with brains.
That is not a comfortable thought.
That's the difference, you don't like the way reality really is, its not a comfortable thought so you deny and reject it for myths and superstitions that give you warm and fuzzies all over. Thats how cowards operate.
If that is what you want to rest your belief on then so be it.
Reality is not a belief and I have no choice but to accept and deal with it like everyone else in the world, you included. If you were honest with yourself, you too would not hide under the covers of irrational beliefs.
Is it reasonable to believe in God? What are the choices?1) An infinite universe?2) A created universe?3) A chance universe?4) it's all an illusion?5) I don't care?What is reasonable of these five?
None of them are reasonable because they did not originate from a reasonable mind that understand the world him therefore can reason relative and reasonable alternatives based on evidence and observation, not myth and superstition.
Without God, it's all relative and subjective and you will never find the ultimate truth because the universe has no truth to it. Truth only comes from a state of mind discovering God's thoughts after Him, IMO.
Complete rubbish.
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@Goldtop
We all start with foundational beliefs that everything else is built upon.Foundations are not built on beliefs, they are built on the natural world around us, which is why we have science, to help us learn and understand our world and how it affects us.
You're not interpreting what I wrote correctly. I'm using a metaphor. A foundation is something (the base) that something else is built upon. A house starts with a foundation. Everything else rests upon that foundation. So do ideas (Matthew 7:24-29). A worldview foundation is the core beliefs that all others are built upon, but you have to start somewhere. Your foundational beliefs are built upon the world around you ONLY (naturalism). Mine is built upon God's word and what I see of the world in relation to His word. Thus we have different starting points/ideas.
I presuppose God as the reason and can make sense of origins.No, you don't presuppose anything, it's all written down for you by people who had no clue of the world around, who were steeped in myths and superstitions, believed magic existed and had no concept of how to gain knowledge or what to do with it. It's how people lived and behaved centuries ago, not today.
That is a hasty generalization.
There are some things that are self-evident truths (ie., logic, for a person can't deny it without using it), yet hard to prove from an empirical standpoint because they are abstract or non-physical in their nature. Just like you, I don't have all the answers or even a majority of them. My knowledge is micro-thin. But I don't have to make sense of everything. The biblical God tells those who believe in Him to worship with both minds and bodies. Scientists usually specialize in one field. Their knowledge is very limited too, even in their specialized field of study.
This "no clue" idea is just another emotional attempt to poison the well. This is the kind of promotion the Left uses on Christians all the time - ignorant goatherders, steeped in myth, magic, sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc - without knowledge. It is a form of discrimination. As soon as one group or class of human beings is devalued then they can be marginalized and isolated so their views become worthless to society at large.
We are constantly painted this way, yet for many in the Christian community, it is not the case. Generally speaking, they are no more ignorant than others.
There is no sense to be made from a mindless universe.The universe is mindless, its not a giant brain. Its made of dust and gas and many other compounds, none of them with brains.
Why do you find meaning from a meaningless universe? Why should you? You have reason yet the universe doesn't. How can reason come from the void? So far you have only assumed it can. How can consciousness come from such a universe? How can life come from the non-living? How does intent come from the unintentional?
Make sense of these things. Show me my statement is false or unreasonable.
That is not a comfortable thought.That's the difference, you don't like the way reality really is, its not a comfortable thought so you deny and reject it for myths and superstitions that give you warm and fuzzies all over. Thats how cowards operate.
I claim it is you who is denying reality. You don't know God, so you reject and deny Him because the alternative is not pleasant to you. You don't like to think of reality that way. It means you are ACCOUNTABLE. The shock of shocks. You think you can sit back and when you die - meaninglessness/nothing. That is your gamble.
If that is what you want to rest your belief on then so be it.Reality is not a belief and I have no choice but to accept and deal with it like everyone else in the world, you included. If you were honest with yourself, you too would not hide under the covers of irrational beliefs.
The way you see it is a belief, the reality as you see it is your belief. Is it a justifiably true belief? (Not bloody likely)
You form your beliefs about reality just like everyone else, then you deny you do.
It is your beliefs that are based on the irrational, mindless, impersonal universe. Why should you be able to make sense of an irrational, mindless universe? You just assume you can because you borrow from my Christian worldview that believes there is sense to be made for it because it comes from the MIND of God.
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@Goldtop
Part 2
Is it reasonable to believe in God? What are the choices?1) An infinite universe?2) A created universe?3) A chance universe?4) it's all an illusion?5) I don't care?What is reasonable of these five?None of them are reasonable because they did not originate from a reasonable mind that understand the world him therefore can reason relative and reasonable alternatives based on evidence and observation, not myth and superstition.
Yes, one is reasonable because it derives from a meaningful and reasonable mindful, intelligent, logical omniscient Being.
How can you make a statement like that? It is senseless unless you can present other options that are reasonable.
A created universe implies a Creator. A chance universe does not. There is no INTENT behind a chance universe.
With an illusion who's having it, you or me? (^8
Am I just making you up or are you making me up? If it is me, I'm kicking your butt. If it is you making me up then I hope you spare me humiliation! Am I that expendable?
With an infinite universe, how would you ever get to the present?
Give me another reason for the universe. If there is none then why do we continue to find meaning and purpose in all kinds of things?
Without God, it's all relative and subjective and you will never find the ultimate truth because the universe has no truth to it. Truth only comes from a state of mind discovering God's thoughts after Him, IMO.Complete rubbish.
What is rubbish - your relativism? I agree!
Why are you looking for truth in a universe that has no regard for the truth? Why do you keep discovering truths?
Yes, the truth comes from a state of mind, a necessary state of Mind. That is not your mind or my mind. If you did not exist 2+2=4 would still be true. It doesn't stop being true because of you.
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@PGA2.0
2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he set himself against him on the way while he was coming up from Egypt.If you look back you will see what Amalek did to the Israelites and if you look forward you see how they influenced the Israelites to turn away from God, as well as threatening Israel. God is being just and also looking out for the long-term interests of Israel, through whom the Messiah will come.
And if you opened your eyes you will see these was wars of the Gods, struggling for power but fought by duped humans. Humans were and still are tools of the gods. Chattel to lay down our lives for the egoes of gods who cannot live in peace among themselves. This kind of "faith" is a mental disease and blind faith will , without doubt, get you killed. And there is no reward.
13 days and still not even a scrap of evidence presented. HUZZAH!
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@Goldtop
Based on the definition of "Evidence", what compelling evidence can you offer for the likelihood of God's existence?Contrary to that, what compelling evidence can you offer for the likelihood of God's non-existence?
God, for me at least, is a superhuman being worshiped for having power over nature and human fortunes.
This is demonstrably true, and here is some compelling evidence.
1. God played a crucial role in the origin of life on earth.
Researchers have used CH4, C2H6, NH3, H2S and *UV rays,* and yielded alanine, glycine, serine, glutamic acid, aspartic acid, and cystine which are the building blocks of life.
2. God controls our days and nights.
Our day-night cycle is completely based around god, to the extent that we schedule our events around god and even realize time using god.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_time
Our day-night cycle is completely based around god, to the extent that we schedule our events around god and even realize time using god.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_time
3. God maintains our habitable position in the universe.
God's massive gravity actually holds earth in a position in the universe that is habitable for life.
God's massive gravity actually holds earth in a position in the universe that is habitable for life.
4. God indirectly or directly provides all metabolizable energy to every organism on earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_chain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_chain
Compelling?
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@MagicAintReal
Nice one! The sun does fulfil at least some of the function expected of a god, but perhaps not enough of them to be a proper god! I'm thinking that the sun doesn't actually respond to prayers or reward good deeds and punish bad ones for instance.
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@PGA2.0
Mine is built upon God's word and what I see of the world in relation to His word. Thus we have different starting points/ideas.
Mine is based on reality and an understanding of the world around us while yours is based on the words of ignorant goat herders who lived centuries ago. You're living in the past with myths and superstitions.
There are some things that are self-evident truths
In reality, yes. In your worldview, no.
yet hard to prove from an empirical standpoint because they are abstract or non-physical in their nature
Which is the exact same thing as non-existent.
My knowledge is micro-thin. But I don't have to make sense of everything.
Your knowledge is literally non-existent and you have yet to make sense of anything.
The biblical God tells those who believe in Him to worship with both minds and bodies.
Nope, you're listening to the words of ignorant men who lived centuries ago and knew nothing but myths and superstitions.
Scientists usually specialize in one field. Their knowledge is very limited too, even in their specialized field of study.
Strawman, there are many fields of science and millions of scientists studying them. Totally irrelevant comment.
ignorant goatherders, steeped in myth, magic, sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc - without knowledge. It is a form of discrimination.
It's your worldview, dude. That's the disgusting religion you have chosen to follow. Deal with it.
they can be marginalized and isolated so their views become worthless to society at large.
Your worldview IS worthless to society at large and in fact does more harm than good. It's already destroyed your mind.
We are constantly painted this way
Wrong, you constantly exhibit that behavior and worldview, you bring it all on yourself.
Why do you find meaning from a meaningless universe? Why should you? You have reason yet the universe doesn't. How can reason come from the void? So far you have only assumed it can. How can consciousness come from such a universe? How can life come from the non-living? How does intent come from the unintentional?
If you had some knowledge and understanding of the world around you, you'd find answers for those questions yourself. For example, reason does not come from the void, it comes from the brain. You don't use your brains, though, hence you can't reason.
I claim it is you who is denying reality.
Then, you don't even know what reality is, you're so far gone into your delusion, you've divorced yourself from reality.
You don't know God
And, I repeat again, I know exactly the same as you because we both have access to the Bible. So you can stop saying that anytime as it's an irrelevant comment.
You just assume you can because you borrow from my Christian worldview that believes there is sense to be made for it because it comes from the MIND of God.
Lol. Not even remotely. Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker and now hinge on pure baloney and fabrications on your part.
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@PGA2.0
Such a Being has never been shown to exist nor is there any evidence to suggest. That is pure fantasy, a child's fable.Yes, one is reasonable because it derives from a meaningful and reasonable mindful, intelligent, logical omniscient Being.
You keep talking about truths but never present any.hy are you looking for truth in a universe that has no regard for the truth? Why do you keep discovering truths?Yes, the truth comes from a state of mind, a necessary state of Mind. That is not your mind or my mind
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@MagicAintReal
Very much so.Compelling?
Since 1927, whenever i am going to sleep, i alwaysconcentrate my thinking on what i call "Ever Rethinking the LordsPrayer" (Richard Buckminister Fuller)
I am confident as specifically argued, my followingdeclaration constitutes a scientifically
meticulous, direct-experience-based proof of God.
Part 1
To be satisfactory toscience
all definitions mustbe stated
in terms ofexperience.
I define Universe as
all of humanity's
in-all-known-time
consciouslyapprehended
and communicated (toself or others)
experiences.
In using the word,God,
I am consciouslyemploying
four clearlydifferentiated
from one another
experience-engenderedthoughts.
Firstly I mean:_
thoseexperience-engendered thoughts
which are predicatedupon past successions
which are unexpected,human discoveries
of mathematicallyincisive,
physicallydemonstrable answers
to what thereto forehad been missassumed
to be foreverunanswerable
cosmic magnitudequestions
wherefore I nowassume it to be
scientifically manifest,
and thereforeexperientially reasonable that
scientificallyexplainable answers
may and probably will
eventually be given
to all questions
as engendered in allhuman thoughts
by the sum total
of all humanexperiences;
wherefore my firstmeaning for God is:-
all theexperientially explained
or explainableanswers
to all questions
of all time-
Secondly I mean;-
The individual'smemory
of many surprisingmoments
of dawning comprehension's
of as interrelatedsignificance
to be existent
amongst a number
of what hadpreviously seemed to be
entirelyuninterrelated experiences
all of whichremembered experiences
engender thereasonable assumption
of the possibleexistence
of a totalcomprehension
of the integratedsignificance-
the meaning-
of all experiences.
Thirdly, I mean:-
the onlyintellectually discoverable
a priori,intellectual integrity
indisputably manifestas
the only mathematicallystateable
family
of generalizedprinciples-
cosmic laws-
thus far discoveredand codified
and ever physicallyredemonstrable
by scientists
to be not onlyunfailingly operative
but to be in eternal,
omni-interconsiderate,
omni-interaccommodativegovernance
of the complex
of everyday,naked-eye experiences
as well as of themulti-millions-fold greater range
of onlyinstrumentally explored
infra- andultra-tuneable
micro- andmacro-Universe events.
Fourthly, I mean;-
All the mysteryinherent
in all humanexperience,
which, as a lifetimeratioed to eternity,
is individuallylimited
to almost negligible
twixt sleepings,glimpses
of only a few localepisodes
of one of theinfinite myriads
of concurrently andoverlappingly operative
sum-totally never-ending
cosmic scenarioserials.
With these four meanings I now directly
address God.
"Our God-
Since omni-experienceis your identity
You have given us
overwhelmingmanifest:-
of Your completeknowledge
of Your completecomprehrension
of Your completeconcern
of Your completecoordination
of Your completeresponsibility
of Your completecapability to cope
in absolute wisdomand effectiveness
with all problems andevents
and of Your eternallyunfailing reliability
so to do
Yours , dear God,
is the only and complete glory.
By glory I mean the synergetic totality
of all physical and metaphysical radiation
and of all physical and metaphysical gravity
of finite
but non-unitarily conceptual
scenario Universe
in whose synergetic totality
the a priori energy potentials
of both radiation and gravity
are initially equal
but whose respective
behavioral patterns are such
that radiation's entropic redundant disintegratings
is always less effective
than gravity's non redundant
syntropic integrating
Radiation is plural and differentiable,
radiation is focusable, beamable, and self-sinusing,
is interceptible, separatist, and biasble-
ergo, has shadowed voids and vulnerabilities;
Gravity is unit and undifferentiable
Gravity is comprehensive
inclusively embracing and permeative
is non-focusable and shadowless,
and is omni-integrative;
all of which characteristics gravity
are also the characteristics of love.
Love is metaphysical gravity.
(eome- note; Buckyhas also described love as the synergetic interplay between these
two opposite forces.)
I am confident as specifically argued, my followingdeclaration constitutes a scientifically
meticulous, direct-experience-based proof of God.
Part 1
"Ever Rethinking the Lord's Prayer
July 12 1979To be satisfactory toscience
all definitions mustbe stated
in terms ofexperience.
I define Universe as
all of humanity's
in-all-known-time
consciouslyapprehended
and communicated (toself or others)
experiences.
In using the word,God,
I am consciouslyemploying
four clearlydifferentiated
from one another
experience-engenderedthoughts.
Firstly I mean:_
thoseexperience-engendered thoughts
which are predicatedupon past successions
which are unexpected,human discoveries
of mathematicallyincisive,
physicallydemonstrable answers
to what thereto forehad been missassumed
to be foreverunanswerable
cosmic magnitudequestions
wherefore I nowassume it to be
scientifically manifest,
and thereforeexperientially reasonable that
scientificallyexplainable answers
may and probably will
eventually be given
to all questions
as engendered in allhuman thoughts
by the sum total
of all humanexperiences;
wherefore my firstmeaning for God is:-
all theexperientially explained
or explainableanswers
to all questions
of all time-
Secondly I mean;-
The individual'smemory
of many surprisingmoments
of dawning comprehension's
of as interrelatedsignificance
to be existent
amongst a number
of what hadpreviously seemed to be
entirelyuninterrelated experiences
all of whichremembered experiences
engender thereasonable assumption
of the possibleexistence
of a totalcomprehension
of the integratedsignificance-
the meaning-
of all experiences.
Thirdly, I mean:-
the onlyintellectually discoverable
a priori,intellectual integrity
indisputably manifestas
the only mathematicallystateable
family
of generalizedprinciples-
cosmic laws-
thus far discoveredand codified
and ever physicallyredemonstrable
by scientists
to be not onlyunfailingly operative
but to be in eternal,
omni-interconsiderate,
omni-interaccommodativegovernance
of the complex
of everyday,naked-eye experiences
as well as of themulti-millions-fold greater range
of onlyinstrumentally explored
infra- andultra-tuneable
micro- andmacro-Universe events.
Fourthly, I mean;-
All the mysteryinherent
in all humanexperience,
which, as a lifetimeratioed to eternity,
is individuallylimited
to almost negligible
twixt sleepings,glimpses
of only a few localepisodes
of one of theinfinite myriads
of concurrently andoverlappingly operative
sum-totally never-ending
cosmic scenarioserials.
With these four meanings I now directly
address God.
"Our God-
Since omni-experienceis your identity
You have given us
overwhelmingmanifest:-
of Your completeknowledge
of Your completecomprehrension
of Your completeconcern
of Your completecoordination
of Your completeresponsibility
of Your completecapability to cope
in absolute wisdomand effectiveness
with all problems andevents
and of Your eternallyunfailing reliability
so to do
Yours , dear God,
is the only and complete glory.
By glory I mean the synergetic totality
of all physical and metaphysical radiation
and of all physical and metaphysical gravity
of finite
but non-unitarily conceptual
scenario Universe
in whose synergetic totality
the a priori energy potentials
of both radiation and gravity
are initially equal
but whose respective
behavioral patterns are such
that radiation's entropic redundant disintegratings
is always less effective
than gravity's non redundant
syntropic integrating
Radiation is plural and differentiable,
radiation is focusable, beamable, and self-sinusing,
is interceptible, separatist, and biasble-
ergo, has shadowed voids and vulnerabilities;
Gravity is unit and undifferentiable
Gravity is comprehensive
inclusively embracing and permeative
is non-focusable and shadowless,
and is omni-integrative;
all of which characteristics gravity
are also the characteristics of love.
Love is metaphysical gravity.
(eome- note; Buckyhas also described love as the synergetic interplay between these
two opposite forces.)
..."Since 1927, whenever i am going to sleep, i alwaysconcentrate my thinking on what i call "Ever Rethinking the LordsPrayer" (Richard Buckminister Fuller)"...
Part 2
"You, Dear God,
are the totally loving intellect
ever designing
and ever daring to test
and thereby irrefutably proving
to the uncompromising satisfaction
of Your own comprehensive and incisive
knowledge of the absolute truth
that Your generalized principles
adequately accommodate any and all
special case developments,
involvement's, and side effects;
wherefore Your absolutely courageous
omni-rigorous and ruthless self-testing
alone can and does absolutely guarantee
total conservation
of the integrity
of eternally regenerative Universe
You eternally regenerative scenario Universe
is the minimum complex
of totally inter-complementary
totally inter-transforming
non-simultaneous, differently frequenced
and differently enduring
feedback closures
of a finite
but non-unitarily conceptual system
in which naught is created
and naught is lost
and all occurs
in optimum efficiency.
Total accountability and total feedback
constitute the minimum and only
perpetual motion system.
Universe is the one and only
eternally regenerative system.
To accomplish Yourregenerative integrity
You give Yourself the responsibility
of eternal, absolutely continuous,
tirelessly vigilant wisdom.
Wherefore we have absolute faith and trust in You,
and we worship You
awe-inspiredly,
all-thankfully,
rejoicingly,
lovingly,
Amen."
are the totally loving intellect
ever designing
and ever daring to test
and thereby irrefutably proving
to the uncompromising satisfaction
of Your own comprehensive and incisive
knowledge of the absolute truth
that Your generalized principles
adequately accommodate any and all
special case developments,
involvement's, and side effects;
wherefore Your absolutely courageous
omni-rigorous and ruthless self-testing
alone can and does absolutely guarantee
total conservation
of the integrity
of eternally regenerative Universe
You eternally regenerative scenario Universe
is the minimum complex
of totally inter-complementary
totally inter-transforming
non-simultaneous, differently frequenced
and differently enduring
feedback closures
of a finite
but non-unitarily conceptual system
in which naught is created
and naught is lost
and all occurs
in optimum efficiency.
Total accountability and total feedback
constitute the minimum and only
perpetual motion system.
Universe is the one and only
eternally regenerative system.
To accomplish Yourregenerative integrity
You give Yourself the responsibility
of eternal, absolutely continuous,
tirelessly vigilant wisdom.
Wherefore we have absolute faith and trust in You,
and we worship You
awe-inspiredly,
all-thankfully,
rejoicingly,
lovingly,
Amen."
-->
@mustardness
Please don't spam this thread with your garbage.
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@Goldtop
...."440.01 Equilibrium between positive and negative is zero.The vector equilibrium isthe true zero reference of the energetic mathematics.Zero pulsation in the vectorequilibrium is the nearest approach we will ever knowto eternity and god: the zerophaseof conceptual integrity inherent in the positive andnegative asymmetries that propagatethe differentials of consciousness."....