Evidence For The Existence of God

Author: Goldtop

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@keithprosser
The bare bones is that pga2 has claimed that god is omnipresent god does not allow evil in his presence and that evil definitely exists and all three of these claims cannot simultaneously be true so I am trying to discern which of these claims he is actually willing to stand behind. Once the apparent contradiction is resolved (provided it can be) we may or may not discuss the viability of any claims that still remain on the table.
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@Goldtop
Yes, secularism, for the most part, controls the USA. It is very intolerant to religious views.
You couldn't be more wrong. So, I have to question your motives here, whether you really don't understand what secularism is about or you're being dishonest and deceptive. 


Definition of secularism 
indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations [1]

 
Definition of secular 
(Entry 1 of 2)
1aof or relating to the worldly or temporalsecular concerns
bnot overtly or specifically religioussecular music
cnot ecclesiastical or clericalsecular courts [2]

The secularist wants him to practice his religion at home while the secularist hijacks the moral fiber of the country to a leftist/socialist position.
Theres not such thing as a secularist, its Secularism, and its meant to protect you and everyone else from religious oppression.

secularism

  1. philosophy doctrine that rejects religion, esp in ethics
  2. the attitude that religion should have no place in civil affairs
  3. the state of being secular
Derived Forms 
secularist ,
 noun [3]

***


NOUN
  • A person who advocates separation of the state from religious institutions. [4]

It does not protect. It undermines in every way possible. Many secularists vilify religion as pointed out in the prayer.







The secularist pretends he/she is the most tolerant person but when you look at what is going on in your country the opposite is the case.

You'll need to support that claim with evidence.
Universities are bastions of secularism where religious and conservative views are suppressed and denied. These secularists shut down college and university campuses and bar religious or conservative speakers from exercising their First Amendment rights.

Hollywood depicts Christians as stupid, ignorant, intellectually deficient people. Hollywood actors mock them and portray them in sarcastic and demeaning ways. Abortion, violence, homosexuality, rebellion against conservative standards are all promoted. [5]

The Democrat position is a secular position. It squeezes God out of politics and secular ideology, like the abortion agenda for all women who choose, is promoted. They move the country away from religious faith and more towards a socialist society. 

The media promotes secular ideas and mocks conservatives and Christians.

If the religionist can't practice his religion at school because the secularist will not let him how tolerant is the secularist to other views?
A school is a place of learning, NOT a place of worship. You have churches, your home and plenty of public places to pray and worship your God, yet here you are complaining about not being able to do it in schools, where people are learning things, like writing and reading and being able to comprehend concepts and ideas. Pray in your church, they don't teach math and physics there, so stop complaining.



It should be a place of learning, but like in many socialist societies it is used as a form of propaganda and promoting a particular worldview. [6] 

A school or uniVERSITY  (unity in diversity) should be open to diversity, not discourage it. I should be able to pray in open, in recognition of my God. You should be able to exclude yourself from my prayer or company if you want to do so. Instead, you want to exclude me. 
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@Goldtop
If I want to say a prayer in public
Then, you are free to do so in many public places. You are conflating Public with Public Schools.



Rubbish. I have been investigating secularism for decades. I have many books that deal with the subject in my library. For instance, [1], [2]





Clearly, you have never bothered to understand secularism or you are deliberately trying to deceive. Which is it?

Francis Schaeffer was well ahead of his time in his understanding of the effects particular views (such as secularism and humanism) have on a society. He identified these areas and more which I listed above in his books, which I have read. He said: 

Christians, in the last 80 years or so, have only been seeing things as bits and pieces which have gradually begun to trouble them and others, instead of understanding that they are the natural outcome of a change from a Christian World View to a Humanistic one; things such as over permissiveness, pornography, the problem of the public schools, the breakdown of the family, abortion, infanticide (the killing of newborn babies), increased emphasis upon the euthanasia of the old and many, many other things...The word Humanism should be carefully defined. We should not just use it as a flag, or what younger people might call a "buzz" word. We must understand what we are talking about when we use the word Humanism. Humanism means that the man is the measure of all things. Man is the measure of all things. If this other final reality of material or energy shaped by pure chance is the final reality, it gives no meaning to life. It gives no value system. It gives no basis for law, and therefore, in this case, man must be the measure of all things. So, Humanism properly defined, in contrast, let us say, to the humanities or humanitarianism, (which is something entirely different and which Christians should be in favor of) being the measure of all things, comes naturally, mathematically, inevitably, certainly. If indeed the final reality is silent about these values, then man must generate them from himself.

So, Humanism is the absolute certain result, if we choose this other final reality and say that is what it is. You must realize that when we speak of man being the measure of all things under the Humanist label, the first thing is that man has only knowledge from himself. That he, being finite, limited, very faulty in his observation of many things, yet nevertheless, has no possible source of knowledge except what man, beginning from himself, can find out from his own observation. Specifically, in this view, there is no place for any knowledge from God. [3]





Goldtop
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@PGA2.0
It does not protect. It undermines in every way possible.
Yes, it protects YOU from religious oppression. If you lived in a Theocracy, there's a good chance that people in that country can be oppressed or even killed to practice their religion. Is that what you want?

Universities are bastions of secularism where religious and conservative views are suppressed and denied.
Stop being such a dummy, universities are places of learning, not places of worship. Go to your church if you want to worship.

These secularists shut down college and university campuses and bar religious or conservative speakers from exercising their First Amendment rights.
Are they speaking about worshiping in universities? Then, they should be shut down and they can go to their church to worship.

Hollywood depicts Christians as stupid, ignorant, intellectually deficient people
Then, Christians should stop behaving that way and grow up. You are behaving that way right now, so all you do is confirm Hollywood.

The Democrat position is a secular position. It squeezes God out of politics and secular ideology
You're being ignorant again. YOUR God is not the only God to be worshiped, which is why religion is left out.

The media promotes secular ideas and mocks conservatives and Christians.
Right after conservatives and Christians say and do the stupidest things while forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

It should be a place of learning, but like in many socialist societies it is used as a form of propaganda and promoting a particular worldview
Schools? You are now showing Hollywood to be dead right about Christians.

A school or uniVERSITY  (unity in diversity) should be open to diversity, not discourage it. I should be able to pray in open, in recognition of my God.
Once again, schools and universities are places of learning, not places of worship. Go to your church, go to your home, go to a park or public sidewalk if you're compelled to worship. The entire world was not made just for you to worship. Take Hollywood serious on this one.

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@PGA2.0
The separation of church and state is not a secular philosophy except to people who reject religion.
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@Plisken

The separation of church and state is not a secular philosophy except to people who reject religion. 
What do you mean? Do you think it is a biblical principle in its current form? Is this in reference to the First Amendment? 

Today religion is separated from the government. Originally there was a jurisdictional ("speak the law") separation. Congress was originally prohibited from establishing or prohibiting religion. There is no reason why we can't apply our religious views in government. Now all they do is prohibit them. 



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@PGA2.0
There is no reason why we can't apply our religious views in government.
So, you have no problem with Islamic religious views ruling your government?

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@Goldtop

There is no reason why we can't apply our religious views in government.
So, you have no problem with Islamic religious views ruling your government?

Yes, I do. (^8

What I don't object to is applying laws that are common to all three monotheistic religions, such as, "Do not kill," "do not lie," "do not steal, to governance." I don't object to The Golden Rule being applied.
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@PGA2.0
Yes, I do.
Really? Yet you just said you want to see religious views in government. Of course, you want YOUR religious views in government and not any other religious views.

What I don't object to is applying laws that are common to all three monotheistic religions, such as, "Do not kill," "do not lie," "do not steal,
There are already laws for those that don't require any religious views. Perhaps, you would like see stoning to death or cutting off hands in the streets like they do in other theocracies?

If you look at that statistics, countries with more religious views are much higher in violent crime, so I can only assume you want to promote more violence and crime based on existing religious views?
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@Goldtop

It does not protect. It undermines in every way possible.
Yes, it protects YOU from religious oppression. If you lived in a Theocracy, there's a good chance that people in that country can be oppressed or even killed to practice their religion. Is that what you want?
Christianity is not religious oppression. It is what is done in the name of it that oppresses. 

Theocracy was OT. Love thy neighbor is NT. Christ's kingdom is not of this world, even though the Christian lives in the world. It is a spiritual kingdom. I don't want oppression. Socialist liberal regimes all over the world are highly oppressive. Take a look in the mirror. Abortion is the greatest genocide this world has ever seen, and it is promoted by leftist, socialist, liberal, progressive societies.


Universities are bastions of secularism where religious and conservative views are suppressed and denied.
Stop being such a dummy, universities are places of learning, not places of worship. Go to your church if you want to worship.

It is not my eyes that are closed to this. Here is a list from 2017 and I'll give you the first paragraph to illustrate but you can read all the others. 

"The 2016–17 academic year will go down in history as the year of the shout-down. But what actually happened and where are we headed now? The episodes that drew national attention: the Milo Yiannopoulos riot at Berkeley, Middlebury’s Charles Murray shout-down, the Heather Mac Donald shout-downs at UCLA and Claremont, and the Ann Coulter imbroglio at Berkeley, are part of a larger and still poorly-known set of speaker disruptions and related incidents. So let’s review the year’s lesser-known campus disturbances and consider both their import and what we may be in for next year." [1]

Next, the majority of teachers and professors are left-leaning. Thus you constantly get indoctrinated by this type of secular philosophy. [2]

These secularists shut down college and university campuses and bar religious or conservative speakers from exercising their First Amendment rights.
Are they speaking about worshiping in universities? Then, they should be shut down and they can go to their church to worship.

Not usually. They get barred from freely speaking because of who they are and their values are suppressed. 

Hollywood depicts Christians as stupid, ignorant, intellectually deficient people
Then, Christians should stop behaving that way and grow up. You are behaving that way right now, so all you do is confirm Hollywood.


So you do the same thing. You show how "tolerant" you are while you preach the double standard.

The Democrat position is a secular position. It squeezes God out of politics and secular ideology
You're being ignorant again. YOUR God is not the only God to be worshiped, which is why religion is left out.


It supports nearly every position that is against the Christian worldview. 

There is only one true and living God. 

The media promotes secular ideas and mocks conservatives and Christians.
Right after conservatives and Christians say and do the stupidest things while forcing their beliefs on everyone else.
Like what?

It should be a place of learning, but like in many socialist societies it is used as a form of propaganda and promoting a particular worldview
Schools? You are now showing Hollywood to be dead right about Christians. 
Hitler understood that youth are highly influenced. 

"Hitler Youth, German Hitlerjugend, organization set up by Adolf Hitler in 1933 for educating and training male youth in Nazi principles. Under the leadership of Baldur von Schirach, head of all German youth programs, the Hitler Youth included by 1935 almost 60 percent of German boys. On July 1, 1936, it became a state agency that all young “Aryan” Germans were expected to join." [2]

***

"From the 1920s onwards, the Nazi Party targeted German youth as a special audience for its propaganda messages. These messages emphasized that the Party was a movement of youth: dynamic, resilient, forward-looking, and hopeful. Millions of German young people were won over to Nazism in the classroom and through extracurricular activities. In January 1933, the Hitler Youth had only 50,000 members, but by the end of the year this figure had increased to more than 2 million. By 1936 membership in the Hitler Youth increased to 5.4 million before it became mandatory in 1939. The German authorities then prohibited or dissolved competing youth organizations.

Education in the Third Reich served to indoctrinate students with the National Socialist worldview. Nazi scholars and educators glorified Nordic and other “Aryan” races, while labeling Jews and other so-called inferior peoples as parasitic “bastard races” incapable of creating culture or civilization." [3]


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@Goldtop


A school or uniVERSITY  (unity in diversity) should be open to diversity, not discourage it. I should be able to pray in open, in recognition of my God.
Once again, schools and universities are places of learning, not places of worship. Go to your church, go to your home, go to a park or public sidewalk if you're compelled to worship. The entire world was not made just for you to worship. Take Hollywood serious on this one.

That is very tolerant!
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@PGA2.0
Next, the majority of teachers and professors are left-leaning.
The left is that natural leaning for the intelligent human.

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@Goldtop

Yes, I do.
Really? Yet you just said you want to see religious views in government. Of course, you want YOUR religious views in government and not any other religious views.
I can be tolerant of others. Tolerant implies you believe someone else is wrong yet you still act graciously towards them.

What I don't object to is applying laws that are common to all three monotheistic religions, such as, "Do not kill," "do not lie," "do not steal,
There are already laws for those that don't require any religious views. Perhaps, you would like see stoning to death or cutting off hands in the streets like they do in other theocracies? 

If you look at that statistics, countries with more religious views are much higher in violent crime, so I can only assume you want to promote more violence and crime based on existing religious views?

So, do you think you made them up or borrowed them from the Judeo-Christian worldview?

As I said, what is done in the name of religion doesn't always follow the teachings of that religion. Besides, I'm in the same boat you are in every religious belief but one. I tolerate religious belief but only one can be true, if any, for the reason that they all contradict the others. My claim to you is that Christianity is true. 

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@PGA2.0
That is very tolerant!
So, you have one place on the planet you probably shouldn't bring your religious views, rituals, evangelism and you call that intolerant. Shall we just all bend over and present our asses for your kicking, too?

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@disgusted

Next, the majority of teachers and professors are left-leaning.
The left is that natural leaning for the intelligent human.
Of course, it is! It is the natural leaning of those in despair and those without wisdom (per the NT)

For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside.”

Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

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@PGA2.0
Jesus was a socialist not a wingnut.
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@PGA2.0
I can be tolerant of others. Tolerant implies you believe someone else is wrong yet you still act graciously towards them.
Yet just a few posts above you made it clear you would have a problem with Islamic religious views in your government?  You call that tolerant? I wonder what a tolerant government your religious views would make?

I tolerate religious belief but only one can be true, if any, for the reason that they all contradict the others. My claim to you is that Christianity is true. 
Yes I would suspect your claim would be that Christianity is true out of all the other religions and all the other people who followed those religions and said their religion was true and the rest were not.

So, if everyone says the same thing about their religion and everyone else religion and no religion has ever shown evidence of being true, there can be only one logical answer, none of them are true. I think you know that, too.
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@Goldtop

Yes, I do.
Really? Yet you just said you want to see religious views in government. Of course, you want YOUR religious views in government and not any other religious views.
I'm not trying to create a dichotomy between religion and government.

What I don't object to is applying laws that are common to all three monotheistic religions, such as, "Do not kill," "do not lie," "do not steal,
There are already laws for those that don't require any religious views. Perhaps, you would like see stoning to death or cutting off hands in the streets like they do in other theocracies? 

If you look at that statistics, countries with more religious views are much higher in violent crime, so I can only assume you want to promote more violence and crime based on existing religious views?
Where do those laws come from?

Stoning to death is not a practice of Christianity. 

I'm not pushing for a theocracy, just fair play. 

Show me those stats. 

Stats from leftist states recording genocide are the worst:





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@Goldtop

I can be tolerant of others. Tolerant implies you believe someone else is wrong yet you still act graciously towards them.
Yet just a few posts above you made it clear you would have a problem with Islamic religious views in your government?  You call that tolerant? I wonder what a tolerant government your religious views would make?
You confuse tolerance with intolerance. Even when I know some views are wrong I tolerate the person holding that view. It is not personal to me.

I tolerate religious belief but only one can be true, if any, for the reason that they all contradict the others. My claim to you is that Christianity is true. 
Yes I would suspect your claim would be that Christianity is true out of all the other religions and all the other people who followed those religions and said their religion was true and the rest were not.
Correct!



So, if everyone says the same thing about their religion and everyone else religion and no religion has ever shown evidence of being true, there can be only one logical answer, none of them are true. I think you know that, too.
That is one possibility, but is it? 
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@PGA2.0
Where do those laws come from?

Man.

Stoning to death is not a practice of Christianity. 

It's mandated allegedly by your god.

I'm not pushing for a theocracy, just fair play. 

You mean special consideration for your sect of your religion.

Stats from leftist states recording genocide are the worst:

You mean the alleged actions of your alleged god.
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@Goldtop


The media promotes secular ideas and mocks conservatives and Christians.
Right after conservatives and Christians say and do the stupidest things while forcing their beliefs on everyone else.
Here are the media indoctrination tactics from the main news channels:

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@PGA2.0
I've given you plenty of time to think about it and you never have gotten back to me on this point.

Your premises are as follows.

number one that god is omniscient

number two that god is omnipotent

number three that god is omnipresent

number four that god does not allow evil to exist in his presence

number five that evil most definitely exists

According to premise number one evil cannot exist in god's presence without his knowledge.

According to premise number two evil cannot exist in god's presence without god allowing it to exist.

According to premise number three any evil that exist must be in god's presence.

If we accept the first three premises then either god allows evil to exist in his presence or no evil exists therefore premise four and premise five. are directly contradictory. 

At the minimum one of your premises must be untrue which do you believe is most likely false?
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@janesix
I experienced God two times, and He communicated with me. He changed my consciousness to do this.
What you are describing is gnosis.

Gnosis is not considered "evidence" because of its unverifiable (personal, private) nature.
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@SkepticalOne
1)If no evidence is expected then there can be no evidence for or against. 
2)If evidence is reasonably expected then lack of it is evidence against existence.

"God" needs to be defined before we can determined which scenario above is applicable.
Well stated.

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@3RU7AL
I agree. 

It is only evidence for me.
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@3RU7AL
What you are describing is gnosis.

It is called a testimony. You can label that testimony anything you want, but it is evidence. Whether it is personal it makes no difference. 

Gnosis is not considered "evidence" because of its unverifiable (personal, private) nature.

Testimonies are considered evidence sir. Learn the English language. 
Testimony-
evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something.
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@EtrnlVw
What is your standard of "truth"?

How do you determine if someone is lying when they describe something unverifiable, like for example, a dream?
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Testimonies are considered evidence sir. Learn the English language. 
Testimonies are not evidence for the existence of anything, Learn the English language.

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@PGA2.0
Here are the media indoctrination tactics from the main news channels:
Fox news? Hannity? THEY are the propaganda who lies about everything. Don't listen to those idiots.
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@Goldtop
Learn how to read, then get back to me.