The fundamental problem with capitalism (as described by Bo Burnham

Author: secularmerlin

Posts

Total: 282
#211
TheUnderdog
TheUnderdog's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 3,270
3
4
10
TheUnderdog's avatar
TheUnderdog
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
Would you perfer it if a rape whistle company didn't exist?  If that was the case, then rape rates would skyrocket.

Capitalism exists to fix some of society's problems.  If would be nice if there was no need for rape whistles, but we don't live in that world.
#212
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
1% of people own more than 50% of all wealth whole nearly ten percent live in extreme poverty. Please explain how this is or could ever be fair. 

.001% of all the people on the planet play in the NFL. How is that fair?
Topic's author
#213
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@TheUnderdog
Capitalism exists to fix some of society's problems. 
No. Capitalism exists for the sole purpose of generating profit. Anything else that comes of it, good or bad, is merely an unintended consequence.
Topic's author
#214
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@TheUnderdog
If would be nice if there was no need for rape whistles, but we don't live in that world.
I agree we live in a world where workers are exploited 
#215
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@secularmerlin
Who said life was fair? Who said it is supposed to be fair? Demanding fairness is an excuse for weakness and inability to get more out of life that what is fair. Get a backbone, man, since you already have it. USE IT. Since your subject appears to be money, when are you going to get it that Obama was wrong. There never comes a time when you've made enough money because the money supply is infinite. It only starts getting dragged down when you can no longer afford to pay the lifestyle you desire, so you borrow at excessive rates that make it probable you will never even the balance. Who says you have to spend what you make? Invest. Make money work for you, and live within that amount. Look, I used to have a mortgage, and car payments. I don't anymore. I own them, outright. No, I don't get a tax break for mortgage, but why do I need a tax break? It isn't dollar for dollar, anyway, so why bother? Go into debt to pay less taxes? Is that upside-down. or what?
Topic's author
#216
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
.001% of all the people on the planet play in the NFL. How is that fair?
Failure to play in the NFL does not result in destitution, homelessness and starvation. Clearly this is not a pertinent example. 
Topic's author
#217
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@949havoc
Who said life was fair?
Life is very much not fair. That doesn't make exploitation of others morally correct. 
#218
949havoc
949havoc's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 816
3
2
8
949havoc's avatar
949havoc
3
2
8
-->
@secularmerlin
When do you get it that it is Marx who is exploitive. 
Topic's author
#219
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@949havoc
Who says you have to spend what you make?
For many people around the world their personal physical needs cannot be met with the wealth they are able to generate by working as much as they can and as hard as they can. You are asking a frog to fly and calling it lazy for not being a bird 
Topic's author
#220
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@949havoc
When do you get it that it is Marx who is exploitive. 
Why are you so fixated on Marx? I'm certainly not. It doesn't matter who gives an argument it stands or falls on its own merits. I am not engaging in an argument from authority here. 
#221
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
Failure to play in the NFL does not result in destitution, homelessness and starvation. Clearly this is not a pertinent example. 

Neither does failing to develop into one of the 1% of the top producers on the planet either then. Plenty of people below this development level can feed themselves just fine and you are delusional if you think this is not the case.

You can fail to be a top producer and still have a fairly opulent life.
#222
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
 That doesn't make exploitation of others morally correct. 

Free trade is mutual exploitation. Both sides agree to exploit each other. You are arguing that trade is morally incorrect because exploitation is involved on both sides.
#223
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@949havoc
Lets say you are a Doctor and I have fix computers. Your computer is broken and my arm is broken. You exploit the fact that I can't fix my arm. I exploit the fact you can't fix your computer.

We make a mutual trade and we exploit each other, and we both walk away happy.  

That's Free Market Capitalism exploitation.
Topic's author
#224
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Neither does failing to develop into one of the 1% of the top producers on the planet either then. Plenty of people below this development level can feed themselves just fine and you are delusional if you think this is not the case.

You can fail to be a top producer and still have a fairly opulent life.
The world is on fire in part because of overproduction and we still can't get basic necessities to everyone who needs them. I don't need an opulent life and neither do you and neither  do the one percent but starving homeless people need food and shelter. I don't see how you justify your opulent lifestyle (or mine in as much as it is opulent) given the very real human cost. One preventable instance of homelessness and starvation is one too many.
Topic's author
#225
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Free trade is mutual exploitation. Both sides agree to exploit each other. You are arguing that trade is morally incorrect because exploitation is involved on both sides.
I'm pretty sure you are changing the subject here. The one percent don't produce anything at all they just own all the means of production. They are neither the doctor nor the computer expert. They are the con artist who convinces both to work for him and give him most of the profits from the fixing of both the arm and the computer without actually fixing either himself. 
#226
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
The one percent don't produce anything at all.
Then why would you willingly give them your money? They surely didn't take it from you at gunpoint. Unless you want to call the government the one percenters, since those are the ones who legally can take money from you at gunpoint.

Surely you got SOMETHING out of the deal.
Topic's author
#227
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Then why would you willingly give them your money? They surely didn't take it from you at gunpoint. Unless you want to call the government the one percenters.
As a matter of fact they did through implicit threat of police violence as the government enforces their right to own all the means of production so we have no choice but to acquire all products from them. They decide what products are made and what they cost and their is no alternative to doing buisness with them in practice. 

Surely you got SOMETHING out of the deal.
I get to avoid the homelessness and destitution that comes of not getting in line and doing a job that isn't fulfilling doesn't pay enough and doesn't in the end even need done. (The three biggest complaints people have about their jobs)
#228
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
Then I call you out as a coward for giving them money.

A man of principle would protect himself first. Just as I call out all people who pay taxes to the government as cowards.
#229
BigPimpDaddy
BigPimpDaddy's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 224
0
2
6
BigPimpDaddy's avatar
BigPimpDaddy
0
2
6
-->
@Greyparrot
Lol, I assume you also give them money. though you could be doing tax evasion
#230
BigPimpDaddy
BigPimpDaddy's avatar
Debates: 5
Posts: 224
0
2
6
BigPimpDaddy's avatar
BigPimpDaddy
0
2
6
-->
@Greyparrot
Scared of dying of hunger, going to jail, etc, etc? that makes you a coward!
#231
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@BigPimpDaddy
It's not evasion if you don't get caught.
Topic's author
#232
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Then I call you out as a coward for giving them money.

I could starve on principle and take my family with me I suppose but I call you out as pretending I have choices I do not. I am glad your parents were affluent enough to help you get started. If they had not been your life would be very different I assure you.
#233
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Scared of dying of hunger, going to jail, etc, etc? that makes you a coward?
Of course it does if you are going to huddle on the beach with the women while the real men go hunt for food.
Topic's author
#234
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
It's not evasion if you don't get caught.
Is it moral to benefit from the countries infrastructure without paying taxes? The poor are not given the choice. Taxes are taken from them before they ever see their money.
Topic's author
#235
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Of course it does if you are going to huddle on the beach with the women while the real men go hunt for food.
The workers ARE the ones producing the food. Without them it it s the one percent who would have to get off their ass and do something. 
#236
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
Taxes are taken from them before they ever see their money.

Everyone is already overtaxed with inflation that nobody agreed to.
#237
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
America was founded on tax evasion btw.

Back when men protected themselves and didn't make excuses.
Topic's author
#238
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Everyone is already overtaxed with inflation that nobody agreed to.
Inflation is a feature of capitalism not a bug.
America was founded on tax evasion btw.

Back when men protected themselves and didn't make excuses.
America was founded by scoundrels, rum smugglers and slave owners. One can admire their brazeness without thinking of them as good roll models. 
#239
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 22,934
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@secularmerlin
Inflation is a feature of capitalism not a bug.
It's a feature of printing money. Any government can do that.
Topic's author
#240
secularmerlin
secularmerlin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 7,093
3
3
3
secularmerlin's avatar
secularmerlin
3
3
3
-->
@Greyparrot
Capitalism creates inflation. It is part and parcel of the system. Busts and booms are also built in.