Why do people complain about choosing the lesser of 2 evils?
Cuz it's gay.
Upvote if you agree with me.
Why do people complain about choosing the lesser of 2 evils?
Posts
Total:
59
-->
@HistoryBuff
As a voter, you have power (obviously not literally you 'alone' but it's about the ethos you represent and attitude you infect others around you with when you comment on politics etc.
You can spread an atttitude of whining like an entitled brat about the party owing you and that they will magically get on their knees and beg you for the votes you're giving neither party, or worse giving to Republicans in spite. That's your perogative. I choose to vote for the best party that actually has a shot at winning if the election is truly viable to be won.
I will probably vote thirdparty if I truly deep down believe it's nowhere near close and am in a truly corrupt nation where the vote count is forged or votes are coerced by an unwritten mafia code among the policians to the populace.
If you're in a nation where votes really can change the rulers, it's entirely your fault if it ends up with the worse party in charge, there is seriously no one else to blame. We can sit and blame the media, who we fund and force to be stupid and sensational because we don't pay them for their service otherwise. We can sit and blame the system for being corrupt as rich donors pull the strings.
Or...
We can start to vote and spread a behaviour and ethos of voting for the lesser evil each and every election because then the party least close to the view of good in the community will shift towards the center of the issues they're extreme on while the other remains concrete on the ones that the people support.
-->
@HistoryBuff
Because you also do not encourage a party to move left by blindly supporting them when they keep shifting right.
Yes you do, every single social democracy today got there by this election-by-election shift. The right-wing parties (in most cases) learned rapidly to adapt to the new much more poor-interests centre. At the same time, the left-wing party learned how to fine-tune their left-wing ethos without going all the way to full on socialism.
By voting thirdparty intentionally to 'send a point' or worse not voting at all, you over time teach the left-wing party to adapt to the new centre-shifted-right-and-conservative if they want to take away from their opponents' voting base, which is the primary objective if you want to win an election of any kind as measuring the 'rebels who voted thirdparty or didn't vote who would otherwise support us' is hard to weight up.
By voting thirdparty intentionally to 'send a point' or worse not voting at all, you over time teach the left-wing party to adapt to the new centre-shifted-right-and-conservative if they want to take away from their opponents' voting base, which is the primary objective if you want to win an election of any kind as measuring the 'rebels who voted thirdparty or didn't vote who would otherwise support us' is hard to weight up.
alright, then what method do you think would be more effective? For example, medicare for all is quite popular. It is overwhelmingly popular among democrats and still has some support among republicans. However the democratic party establishment has time and again completely refused to even consider it.
How should the left proceed? They want the democratic party to listen to what people want and the democratic party leaders don't want to. How does voting for right wing candidates (like joe biden) help them get what they want? Electing right wing people brings about right wing policy. So how does the "vote blue no matter who" help the left in any way?
-->
@RationalMadman
I definitely respect voting thirdparty more than not voting.
-->
@HistoryBuff
wow, that is exactly the mentality of the democratic party. That the left needs to shut up and vote the way they are told. That it doesn't matter if the democrats will do almost nothing for the left, will actively spit on the left. They should just be grateful for their right wing rule. That is complete bullshit.
100% THIS.
True. which is why all of the left should start voting 3rd party. Because you also do not encourage a party to move left by blindly supporting them when they keep shifting right.
100% THIS.
-->
@HistoryBuff
And you are right, it wasn't achieved by being complacent. It was achieved by forcing politicians to do what you want, or forcing them to lose their job. Which is exactly what the left needs to do.
And the "primary" system is a big reason we only have 2 candidates.
WE MUST DEMAND RCV.
AND ABOLISH PRIMARIES.
-->
@3RU7AL
Virtue signalling the fact you don't vote doesn't achieve anything positive at all, quite literally.
-->
@3RU7AL
Dimezzo failed when she ran thirdparty and succeeded when she ran Republican (but will fail because the Democrat guy will win the Sheriff position, if I'm understanding correctly).
You are saying that the people who voted Dimezzo are all to blame but why? Those that didn't vote at all let anyone at all win anyway.
-->
@RationalMadman
You are saying that the people who voted Dimezzo are all to blame but why?
That is most certainly NOT what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is, we need MORE Dimezzos.
-->
@3RU7AL
Agree to disagree
-->
@HistoryBuff
But there doesn't seem to be an effective and realistic way of holding the Democratic party to higher standards without giving more power to the other side. There's never a third party to vote for that has enough clout to win, and simply withholding our votes plays into the Repulicans' hands.
-->
@Castin
Voting for a third party (or unaffiliated individuals) at least signals that you are capable of voting and NOT simply oblivious to the rampant corruption in the current system.
RCV FTW!
-->
@RationalMadman
I consider independence from political parties to be an asset to effectively leading the executive branch. I consider a thorough understanding of the constitution and history to be an asset in the Senate. I can weigh more heavily one's grasp of their constituency and the contemporary issues for the house.
There are things I disagree with, and then there are things that scream "I'm unqualified for this position", like a Muslim ban. That demands an apology for your future consideration among the qualified candidates.
There are things I disagree with, and then there are things that scream "I'm unable to address complex issues", stating it's acceptable for police to be armed with what are in your view 'assault weapons'. To advocate that the police should be armed with something that has no defensive application in civilian life demands redress for your future consideration among the respectable candidates. If you fail to distinguish between an "assault weapon" and the patrol rifle endorsed by your police department for civilian applications, you lack the capacity for critical thought that I require of someone who is expected to rule entire industries.
-->
@Conway
So will you vote for Biden?
-->
@Castin
But there doesn't seem to be an effective and realistic way of holding the Democratic party to higher standards without giving more power to the other side. There's never a third party to vote for that has enough clout to win, and simply withholding our votes plays into the Repulicans' hands.
For every Bernie Bro hiding in their conservative parent's basement, there's probably two or three God-fearing mothers trashing the Trumpster as a pastime. I wouldn't say they're playing into anyone's hands, but rather their consent is just not for sale.
-->
@Castin
But there doesn't seem to be an effective and realistic way of holding the Democratic party to higher standards without giving more power to the other side. There's never a third party to vote for that has enough clout to win, and simply withholding our votes plays into the Repulicans' hands.
the one thing that politicians want more than anything else is to win. That is where their money and power flows from. If they can win while selling out to corporations and right wing lobbyists, they are damn sure going to do that. We need to make sure the democratic party knows that doing it guarantees the death of their power. And yes, that means the republicans will win. But after a couple of cycles of getting crushed over and over they will learn, or they will get replaced by people who are willing to listen.
Groups like justice democrats are a good measure. Make a rating system for every single member of congress and the senate. rank their voting record and their campaign promises on a "progressive scale". if they get under a 50%(or pick any number), then you campaign for all progressives to tank that candidate and ensure they lose. This is how groups like the NRA scare republicans into getting in line on guns or other issues. It has proven to be effective. You can scare democrats into line one by one, or you drive them out of government.
-->
@HistoryBuff
And yes, that means the republicans will win.
*eye twitch*
-->
@3RU7AL
Voting for a third party (or unaffiliated individuals) at least signals that you are capable of voting and NOT simply oblivious to the rampant corruption in the current system.RCV FTW!
Well I'm sure all my virtue signalling will help clean up all that corruption.
I bet if I just keep writing in "Dumbledore" on all my ballots Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer will get scared straight and vow off Super PACs.
-->
@Castin
I bet if I just keep writing in "Dumbledore" on all my ballots Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer will get scared straight and vow off Super PACs.
That would be amazing.
-->
@Castin
And yes, that means the republicans will win.*eye twitch*
a short term pain to get long term benefits. A small cost to get huge gains. That is how most of our world works. If you aren't willing to pay a price for change, then you won't ever get it.
-->
@HistoryBuff
If you aren't willing to pay a price for change, then you won't ever get it.
Yep.
-->
@HistoryBuff
a short term pain to get long term benefits. A small cost to get huge gains. That is how most of our world works. If you aren't willing to pay a price for change, then you won't ever get it.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Keep voting the lesser evil and over time the shift will come. Thanks for agreeing.
-->
@RationalMadman
If I'm #1 of only 2 options, my primary strategy is to scare the hell out of everyone by painting the #2 option as a bunch of world-ending-psychopath-baby-eaters.
That way, I can get away with whatever I want and look like a saint in comparison.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Keep voting the lesser evil and over time the shift will come. Thanks for agreeing.
this doesn't even make sense. Keep voting for people who have no intention of allowing any meaningful change and change will come? That is the opposite of what is going to happen. If you vote for people who don't want change then, to quote Joe Biden, "nothing would fundamentally change".
This is exactly how we got trump in the 1st place. People know that shit is broken. They want change. Obama was elected to bring that change, he didn't. He kowtowed to right wing ideologues and failed to live up to his promises. So then it got more extreme. Trump promised solutions to problems too. So people turned to him looking for an answer. He didn't have one either because he is a con man. But swinging back to people like Joe Biden (who was intimately involved in causing alot of these problems) will not bring change. He and the Dem leadership don't have any solutions because they helped design (and profited from) the broken system.
Change will only come when they are forced into it, or when they are replaced.
-->
@HistoryBuff
I have explained enough to you in this thread. I am not going to reply to your disinformation any longer in this thread.
I have explained enough to you in this thread. I am not going to reply to your disinformation any longer in this thread.
all you keep repeating is that we should vote for the democrats because they are less evil than the republicans. And while that is true, their policy goals (make the rich richer, outsource jobs, etc) are still extremely bad for the lower and middle class. If we want things to actually improve, then the democrats need to change. And they have shown that they have absolutely no intention of doing this.
for example, when hilary lost to trump. Did the DNC see trump's populist message and decide that they needed to support populist policy? Hell no. They blamed bernie sanders, or just decided voters were racist and sexist. They didn't change their policy positions at all. And they never will unless they are forced to. And continuing to vote for them as the "lesser evil" will ensure they will continue to push bad policy forever.
-->
@HistoryBuff
But swinging back to people like Joe Biden (who was intimately involved in causing alot of these problems) will not bring change. He and the Dem leadership don't have any solutions because they helped design (and profited from) the broken system.
Well stated.