The Conservative Case Against Trump

Author: SirAnonymous ,

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  • SirAnonymous
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    I've been thinking about making this topic for a while, but I never had the time or the words. Thankfully, Dan McClaughlin had both. So here is the conservative case against voting for Trump (though not for Biden).

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    Conservatism is a dead ideology.

    And you will never see another Bush, Romney, or McCain ever win a Republican primary ever again.
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Conservatism is a dead ideology.
    I hope not, but I already knew that I'm a political dinosaur.
    And you will never see another Bush, Romney, or McCain ever win a Republican primary ever again.
    Pity. While I completely understand and to a large degree agree with the accusations that they were too moderate or even RINOs, they were (are) men of good character, and I would far prefer any of them as president than Trump or Biden. Honestly, I'd gladly vote for Romney if he ran again because he actually had the guts to stay true to his principles rather than sacrificing his integrity on the altar of Trump. I know that won't happen, though.

  • MisterChris
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    Not a giant trump fan but better him than the alternative. Voting third party or not voting is a good way to screw our country, as the Dems are pretty centered on Biden. 
  • TheUnderdog
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    I'm voting for Jo Jorgenson.  Biden and Trump:

    -Will keep us in wars.
    -Increase our debt by a lot.
    -Are sexual abusers.
    -Part of the establishment.

    So neither one of them got my vote.
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @MisterChris
    Not a giant trump fan but better him than the alternative.
    Maybe, but I don't think that's good enough. Stalin killed a smaller percentage of his people than Pol Pot, so, in a choice between the two of them, Stalin is better than the alternative. However, I still wouldn't vote for him. That's an extreme example, obviously, but it illustrates the point that simply being less bad isn't good enough. Trump has sexually assaulted women and gone on to boast about it. I can't vote for someone who did that even if they are less bad than the alternative.

  • BearMan
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    There's a third party option so until I become old enough to vote informed, I will vote myself.
  • MisterChris
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    I agree there is a time when we say enough is enough and revolt against the binary system. However, I do not think that should be done when there is so much at stake. Revolting against the binary system enables the "greater" evil far more than it enables the third party you are voting for.  Between Trump and Biden, it is between the eventual destruction of our country's value system (to be replaced with the horribly deadly doctrine of equality of outcome and critical race theory) and the deaths of tens of millions of unborn children or a guy that is a jerk and a buffoon but at least not the other guy. I am going to say there is enough to lose to where I would engage in the binary system in this case.

    Comparatively, as strange as it sounds, there is not much at stake when comparing Stalin and Pol Pot.  Either way, things have gone to shit enough to where both candidates are so atrocious that there is hardly the difference at all between them, and therefore little at stake. In that case, to say "fuck it, vote TP," isn't as brave as you might think. Said another way, the difference between them is not substantial enough to where you would say "we better not risk it and vote binary."

    I hope I'm making sense. 
  • Danielle
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    From the article: "It is uniquely the burden of conservatives and Republicans that we value character and competence" lol. In other words Democrats are garbage people. Very nice. Other than that this was a pretty fair take from a conservative and I agreed with him on most things. This is how I imagined  conservatives would feel: torn, not ready and willing to take a bullet for King Trump. 
  • Danielle
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    --> @Greyparrot
    And you will never see another Bush, Romney, or McCain ever win a Republican primary ever again.

    What kind of character can you see running in 2016? (My old boss trademarked like every version of Ivanka2024, Ivanka2028, 2032, etc. lol). Do you think the GOP is going to become more populist/less capitalist or what kind of specific changes can you see coming? I'm fascinated by it. 
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Danielle
    I didn't catch that line, and I don't agree with it. Given the candidates they nominated, I don't think either party has much claim to "[valuing] character and competence." 
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Danielle
    This is how I imagined  conservatives would feel: torn, not ready and willing to take a bullet for King Trump. 
    Well, we can dream.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Danielle
    Maybe a bobby jindal or Rubio type
  • Danielle
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    I didn't catch that line, and I don't agree with it. Given the candidates they nominated, I don't think either party has much claim to "[valuing] character and competence." 

    Which Dem candidates lack character? (Not disagreeing; just curious who you're talking about.) 
  • Danielle
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Maybe a bobby jindal or Rubio type
    How are they different? Because they're minorities and ask the GOP to be more inclusive? Are you saying the GOP is cow towing to identity politics? 
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Danielle
    Which Dem candidates lack character? (Not disagreeing; just curious who you're talking about.)
    I was referring to Trump and Biden. Trump is obvious. Biden is a proven liar, has been photographed violating women's personal space many times, and has been accused of sexual assault (though there's not enough evidence backing the accusation to draw any conclusions, and I'm a big believer in innocent until proven guilty). One of the major reasons Biden lost his first presidential campaign was because he plagiarized someone else's speech. While Trump is probably worse in each of these respects, excluding the plagiarism, Biden is still severely lacking in integrity.
  • RationalMadman
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    Vote for Biden and stop voting for someone who is so narcissistic and mentally deranged he doesn't think the election is even happening in a valid manner and that the result is real. Thanks.
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @RationalMadman
    It's a little late for that. Regardless, I don't think Biden is an improvement. His character is less bad, but his policies, in my opinion, are worse. I couldn't vote for either of them.
  • Danielle
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    When you say Biden is a proven liar, are you referring to political things and if so can you specify? I feel like it's hard to be 100% truthful in politics (that isn't to say lying is excusable, but context matters).

    As far as assault, I hate to defend this (trust me) but Biden seems like your run of the mill creepy old man. I think we all know people that are too handsy. He seems to lack total wherewithal about why it's not appropriate to touch everyone. That is completely unacceptable but I don't think he means anything by it, especially with kids. 

    And the plagiarism thing doesn't bother me. Virtually no politician writes their speeches anyway; they're all reading someone else's words. Maybe they help influence the speechwriters here and there but that's about it. Was there a candidate whose character you felt was exemplary that Dems should have run instead of Biden? 
  • Danielle
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    I don't think Biden is an improvement. His character is less bad, but his policies, in my opinion, are worse.

    Which ones? 
  • SupaDudz
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    --> @SirAnonymous
    Biden was a known racist as well. Seriously, his tax plan is terrible to the economy. With this election, I'd rather have Trump, but honestly, anyone is better than Bernie or Warren. I just don't like his shutdown, his potential courtpacking, Kamala, tax plan, etc. It's gonna be an annoyance.
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Danielle
    When you say Biden is a proven liar, are you referring to political things and if so can you specify?
    A lot of his lies are, but the one that sticks out to me the most isn't political. Biden's first wife and his baby daughter were killed in a car accident. Investigations found the driver who hit them was blameless. But despite that, despite the fact that there was nothing to gain from it, despite the fact that he knew it wasn't true, Biden repeatedly and posthumously accused the driver of being drunk. He smeared the reputation of a dead man for no reason.
    I feel like it's hard to be 100% truthful in politics (that isn't to say lying is excusable, but context matters).
    I agree, but, as you said, that doesn't excuse it.
    As far as assault, I hate to defend this (trust me) but Biden seems like your run of the mill creepy old man. I think we all know people that are too handsy. He seems to lack total wherewithal about why it's not appropriate to touch everyone. That is completely unacceptable but I don't think he means anything by it, especially with kids. 
    Sure, but being a creepy old man is, as you said, completely unacceptable.
    And the plagiarism thing doesn't bother me. Virtually no politician writes their speeches anyway; they're all reading someone else's words.
    There's a difference there. Yes, everyone knows that politicians have speechwriters, and politicians don't hide that. However, plagiarism is different than speechwriting. Speechwriters do get the credit for their work. Everyone knows they wrote it. However, with plagiarizing, it's just stealing someone else words and ideas without giving them credit. That's not the worst thing a person can do, but it's blatantly dishonest. What made it worse was that Biden plagiarized things such as saying that he was the first in his family to graduate college. That may have been true when Neil Kinnock said it, but it was a lie when Biden said it.
    Was there a candidate whose character you felt was exemplary that Dems should have run instead of Biden?
    Well, a candidate with an exemplary character is generally an oxymoron. That being said, I think Tulsi Gabbard would have been a better choice.
  • Danielle
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    --> @SupaDudz
     Seriously, his tax plan is terrible to the economy.

    How so? 
  • Danielle
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    --> @SupaDudz
    I just don't like his shutdown, his potential courtpacking, Kamala, 
    What shutdown? Court packing is a subject I'll get to later. How is Mike Pence better than Kamala? 
  • SirAnonymous
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    --> @Danielle
    Well, we're probably going to disagree on most things policy-wise, but whatever. I don't think ending the tax cuts is a good idea. Biden's environmental plan isn't the same as the Green New Deal, but it's still insanely expensive. Biden is in favor of more gun control, and I'm not. Biden would be more likely to nominate justices who treat the Constitution as a living document, whereas I prefer judges who use an originalist interpretation. Biden wants to repeal the Hyde amendment, which I strongly support. As I said, you'll probably disagree with most or all of these, but those are some of the policies Biden supports that I don't.