One God? It is simply Not True

Author: Stephen ,

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  • Stephen
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    The Christians dogma still,to this day,  insist that there was and is, only ever has been, only one god. This is a lie and the odd thing about their insistence is that their own scriptures state to the contrary.

    Why is it that they have settled on the preferred idea of an omnipotent and everlasting single, male god?

    When we actually look at the biblical text we see that  even the Judeo/Christian bible says that god was not alone I his environment. I am sure many now are familiar with this verse that blows the Christian dogma of “only one god” clean out of the water.
     
     And God said, Let US make man in our image, after OUR likeness: Genesis 1:26
     
     
    And there is the famous and no getting away from, Psalm 82 that clearly states;

    Psalm 82
    God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.....
    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    And there is the commandment where god refers again to other gods:

    Exodus.20:3
     “You shall have no other gods before me”.
    Genesis 11:7
    “ let US go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

    Psalm 95:3
     For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

    Psalm 135:5
    For I know that the Lord is great, and that our Lord is above all gods.
     
    This is not to mention that these gods had families; sons of gods when descended to earth and took the daughters of men as wives..
     
     
     
    And there are many occasions in the bible where one god is ordering the death of those who have or are supporters of other gods.

    Deuteronomy 6:14-16
     Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
    15 (For The Lord thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the Lord thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
    16 Ye Shall not tempt the Lord your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

    So it's plain to see that there are other gods who were without doubt recognised and acknowledged by the Hebrew/ Judeo/Christian god. And this Hebrew./Judeo/Christian god is a self confessed “jealous god” and would kill and make to suffer for generations anyone who preferred one of these other gods to him.
     
     Who will deny this pluralism?Well Christians of course.

    The usual Christian Reasoning  is either to say that the “us”is the Trinity or that it is a heavenly assembly of angels.
     
     But can we really believe that the original audience for Genesis would understand the strictly Christian conception of an idea that had its roots in Rome thousands of years after? And the scripture doesn’t mention an “assembly of angels” but an assembly of “gods” plural
     


  • Castin
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    --> @Stephen
    Well Judaism did begin as a henotheistic religion.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Stephen
    The bible is the claim not the evidence. It doesn't matter if the bible claims there is one god or five or fifty none has been demonstrated.
  • Plisken
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    --> @secularmerlin
    The Bible is a collection of books containing records pertaining to developements in relationship with God.  I do not recall any substantiated claims as referenced in the bible about the existence of gods.  
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Plisken
    The bible claims that at least one creator god exists and Stephen makes an excellent point in that the wording of the bible would seem to suggest more than one god. My point remains however. Whether the bible only makes the unsubstantiated claim that one god exists or the unsubstantiated claim that many gods exist they are still only unsubstantiated claims.

  • Stephen
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    --> @Castin
    Well Judaism did begin as a henotheistic religion. 

    Yes, they certainly did recognise other gods. There is no getting away from it. And it was Moses who introduced the idea of monotheism to these wondering Hebrews. When they got sick of Moses giving orders and  going awol for days on end while they starved and caught diseases they decided to go back to the god they knew and trusted; Ra, the god of the Egyptians and this is why they created an image of  Bull/golden calf,  the house Taurus. Obviously Moses had another god in mind but which one? .
  • Stephen
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    --> @secularmerlin
    The bible is the claim not the evidence.
    I agree this is why I can never understand that when theist have painted themselves into a corner they always turn to the bible as if it somehow is evidence for their claims. Silly aren't they?  Because as you quite correctly say, "The bible is the claim not the evidence".


    It doesn't matter if the bible claims there is one god or five or fifty none has been demonstrated.

    Not sure that is correct. There are many references to there being more that one god, this cannot be refuted.

    The god of the Hebrews confessed that he was jealous of other gods. If there were no other gods what had he to be jealous of? Moses was told strictly not to  make images of other gods or to worship any other god, if there are no other gods how could anyone make an image of other gods?

    "Thou shalt not have any other god but me " leaps to mind.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Plisken
    I do not recall any substantiated claims as referenced in the bible about the existence of gods.  
    Can you expand on that for me, please I am not clear on what it it that you are actually saying.

  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Stephen
    Stephen, 

    the opening account of Genesis is talking about the Trinity. And I do take the view that the Ancient Hebrews understood God as one but understood God as broader than just one. Certainly, when Moses spoke to God in the burning bush, God was the "angel of the Lord". 

    Yet, Christian theology can quite consistently talk of One God and many gods. It all goes to what you mean by God or god. The bible clearly teaches that there is one God. One Creator God who has unique and divine attributes of omniscience, and omnipotence. One God who created this world. Yet you quote passages that suggest that God is the judge of gods etc etc.

    And while it is possible on one hand to say there must be other gods, we are not talking about other God who create and have enormous power and intellect. Indeed in many occasions in the OT, others gods were just sticks and stones shaped like an animal bird or human.  Even humans are called gods, quoted in Psalm and then by Jesus in  his ministry talking to the Pharisees "are you not gods?".  We even have Satan called the god of this world in the NT. 

    In other words, there is one GOD and potentially myriads of gods with this latter thing being a rock, tree, animal, the sun, the moon, humans, birds, satan or his demons, or even angels. As I said in another topic, Adam and Eve became like god, because they now decided what good and evil was for themselves. By that definition, every person on this planet who does not take God's own wisdom in respect of what is good and evil is a little god. Jesus talked about the idols in our hearts. These might be anything from lusting in a sexual way to lusting after alcohol, drugs, power, money etc. These are all gods or idols because they take the devotion we ought to have towards God and directs it toward whatever they are. Pop gods, rock stars, sports stars, celebrities, even politicians in some cases, all have the appearance of being gods. Even Darwin, Dawkins, or Hawking can be this way for some people. 

    There is nothing inconsistent inherently by stating and being correct that there is ONE true God and also acknowledging that the sinful heart of humanity directs and forms images of little gods. One is a real God and everything else is a pretender. Some pretenders are more powerful than others. But they are all still pretenders. 
  • Stephen
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    --> @Tradesecret
    the opening account of Genesis is talking about the Trinity.
    Opinion. AGAIN let’s see some actual evidence from you just for once. Or is it simply your own belief.
     
     
     And I do take the view that the Ancient Hebrews understood God as one but understood God as broader than just one.
    What “view” you takeor don’t take, is neither here nor there. It is clear beyond doubt that there is more than one single god being referred to in these scriptures, if these scriptures are to be taken at face value. Itis a fact that every ancient civilisation recognised that other gods existed. Even the god of gods recognized this fact as did the sons of Gods who came to earth and raped the daughters of mankind.
     
    Even the Ancient Hebrew God recognised this to be so. He actually commands 

    1.    “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

    So here this god himself recognises other gods and wants his particular chosen people not to put any of these other gods above him. He goes on to say he is jealous, what has he to be jealous of if no other gods exist?

     The jewish list of commandments simply says:

    “You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence".(Sh’mot 20:1-5).
     So again you see, this god, the god of the Hebrews is indeed recognising other gods.

    And there is this deafening passage that makes it very plain and clear:

    Psalm 82
    God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.....
    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
     
    Pleased, deny the fact until the blood runs from your ears but it is a fact that you cannot change as much as you try.
     
    Certainly, when Moses Spoke to God in the burning bush, God was the "angel of the Lord".
     
    Well I am not going into the semantics of words again with you. You seem to believe words to mean whatever you decide to define them to mean on any given day and situation. But it is well established fact the “angle” simply means messenger, as in god sent messengers to Jesus instead of turning up himself to console his only son on the eve of his death sentence.
     
    Stop trying to rewrite what it is that is clearly written, These were ancients, they knew what they were writing about, they witnessed it all. 

    Your insistence on a one god is pathetic and futile in the face of all the evidence from around the world.

  • Grugore
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    --> @Stephen
    There is one God, who exists as three persons. That's also in the Bible. God is a triune Being. Three persons, all partaking of the essence of God. There is also the fact that Jesus forgave sins and raised the dead. Something only God can do. Finally, the tomb of Jesus is empty. Who but God could rise from the dead? The Bible is clear on this. Jesus is God. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. All things were made by Him and for Him. And without Him was not anything made that was made
  • Stephen
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    --> @Grugore
    There is also the fact that Jesus forgave sins and raised the dead. 
    No Jesus did not raise anyone who had died. 

    Finally, the tomb of Jesus is empty. 
    So.
    The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. 

    You are as silly as those temple priest Jesus spoke about who couldn't understand the signs.

    Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? Luke 12:56

     I would explain this to you but I am not about to waste my time on a boring, nauseating tit like you.
  • Grugore
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    --> @Stephen
    Are you a Christian? If so, you should think about this. If Jesus is not God, then your salvation is based on the death and resurrection of a created being. Our sin was against God. Only God could pay the price of that sin. No one else can. Think about that. If you're not a Christian, then you are arguing about something you don't even believe in. How crazy is that?
  • Stephen
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    --> @Grugore
    Are you a Christian?
    Listen. I don't know if you have read the rules. But this thread is concerning what the title suggests:

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One God? It is simply Not True<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


    It isn't an invite for you to interrogate me on my personal beliefs. If you have a case to make against, then make it. 

    If you're not a Christian, you are arguing about something you don't even believe in.

    Many of the debates and discussions and arguments in this sub-forum on religion are by people who are atheist who are usually asking  theist to explain the scriptures, god and Jesus and sometime to justify their beliefs. And they are arguing for and or against. It would hardly be a debate or a discussion or a argument if everyone agreed on every aspect of the bible , god and Jesus , now would it? you silly little man.

    This is not a thread about raising the dead. If you want to discuss that subject with me then either read my thread on the subject here>>>>>>>>>>>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/416  <<<<<< and comment 

    or start one of your own on the subject. I am easy 

    i think you have mistakenly  believed that this is a religious forum for the religious only. Let me tell you,   IT ISN'T! It is a place to discuss, argue and debate    R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N    not matter who you are or what you believe in.

    I am not religious. I was christened  at birth I am not a practicing christian but I have studied religion for over 40 years. So do not make the mistake of believing I know nothing of the scriptures. 

    So. You have attempted to make and argument for one god, with the usual christian dogmatic matra of one in three.  Now prove it.
  • Grugore
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    --> @Stephen
    So, why are you arguing about someone you don't even believe in? Isn't that like arguing about the Easter Bunny? It's insane if you ask me. I provide evidence to refute your augment. Not my fault that you ignore it.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Grugore
    So, why are you arguing about someone you don't even believe in?

     Show me where I have said I do not believe. You are jumping the gun. And you are now boring me rigid simply because you do not understand what discussion actually consists of. How old are you? 

    Did you not read my post above. This is a forum to discuss religion. I am discussing religion. Do you not understand this extremely simply concept of discussion. I, or you put something up there and then we discuss it. 

     I believe there were more than one god. The bible actually say so and many times. AND god himself also recognizes that there are other gods. I didn't say I didn't believe in god.gods. GET YOUR FACT RIGHT

    Isn't that like arguing about the Easter Bunny?

    Some would say that, oh you did didn't you.


    I provide evidence to refute your augment.

    No you haven't. Is all you have done is say something which  is irrelevant to the thread and doesn't prove there is only one god.. telling me god made dead people alive again is not addressing the subject. What you have wrote is not proof that there is only one god. Just because you say something , it doesn't make it tue or proof.

    Not my fault that you ignore it.

    I didn't ignore it you fool. I responded to it.
    Now go away and grow up OR come back with some ACTUAL evidence that there is, CONTRARY to what the the bible CLEARLY states,  only one god.
  • Grugore
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    --> @Stephen
    That's OK. You believe whatever you want. There will be no excuse on Judgment Day. See you there.
  • Goldtop
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    --> @Grugore
    There will be no excuse on Judgment Day. See you there.

    Wow, with only a dozen posts to your name and you're already threatening people with childish boogieman stories.
  • Goldtop
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    --> @Grugore
    Who but God could rise from the dead?
    Then, God didn't actually really die if he could so easily rise from the dead. That would make the Resurrection nothing more than a carnival side show magic trick to fool the gullible.
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @Stephen
    There is a very good reason you wont go into semantics with me.  It is because you don't know Hebrew nor Greek. You rip verses out context and mangle the language and the story of the bible to make it fit something you like. Yet there are no recognised or respected academics who agree with your opinions. 

    My views at least have the backing of recognised academics. And the language themselves. 

    You don't mind quoting other books apart from the bible - and to use other texts as authority to interpret the bible. Yet, it does not wash. 

    The Bible clearly teaches there is ONE GOD. You have yet to demonstrate it teaches more than one GOD with a capital G. But God with a capital G verses god with a little g is pretty significant. You know it and I know it. Yet, I don't think you care because that is not the direction you want this topic to go. You really have yet to give ANY evidence that the Bible teaches there is more than one GOD. When you do, then perhaps I will respond more. At this point, little g's don't count. 

    If you opinion is worth anything - then perhaps you might give some evidence. Until then, it is merely an assertion. Little g's are not big G's. 
  • disgusted
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    --> @Grugore
    You won't. No matter how much death scares you, the fairy tales that you use to pacify those fears won't change the fact that when you die you will just be dead like every life form to have ever existed on this planet.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Tradesecret
    There is a very good reason you won't go into [of words] with me.
      I have explained why I won’t do this with you;you don’t need to give me YOUR opinion why I won’t go into semantics: here itis again,
     
    Post 10 above:”You Seem to believe words to mean whatever you decide to define them to mean on any given day and situation. But it is well established fact the “angle” simply means messenger, as in god sent messengers to Jesus instead of turning up himself to console his only son on the eve of his death sentence”.
     
      It is because you don't know Hebrew nor Greek.
     
    Stop it. Your assuming I haven’t read the hebrew, or the Geek or the Aramaic and Sumerian, translations. You don't have a clue what i have reda. so climb down of you pompous horse and start explaining why you believe there is only one single god what the bible and god himself contradicts YOU!
     
     
    You rip verses out context and mangle the language and the story of the bible to make it fit something you like.
     
    No! Definitely not!  What I have done is produced evidence from the bible itself that CLEARLY states that there was more than one god. There are more verses to add to those already pointed out in post 10 above. 
     
    My views at least have the backing of recognised academics.
     
    And I , if it is to be believed ,have the “backing “ of the bible itself.  get used to it and Get over it. There is no denying, there was more than one god and they are even given names by the bible.
     
     
    You don't mind quoting other books apart from the bible –
     
    If these “books” from religious scholars and academic theologians, historical archaeologist and others support what I Have to say then of course I would introduce them. But it is rarely I have to do that. You see, as explained to you many times now, I am simply highlighting things from the bible for you to explain away, and not for me to explain away.
     
     
    The Bible clearly teaches there is ONE GOD.
     
    No it doesn’t. stop bare faced lying.The bible clear SHOWS with testimony from one god that there are/were many gods in ancient times. I have put the evidence up there for anyone to see. FROM THE BIBLE!
     
     
    You have yet to demonstrate it teaches more than one GOD with a capital G.
     
    Semantic AGAIN! go away if that is all you have.
     
     
    But God with a capital G verses god with a little g is pretty significant.
     
    To you maybe.  Not a single Biblical scholar that I have readmake that silly distinction. But you fill your boots, it is an opinion, your opinion and you scraping the barrel for a get out.   I am going by the scripture what better evidence can I offer than the words of a god himself.
     
     
     You really have yet to give ANY evidence that the Bible teaches there is more than one GOD.
    Well see the my opening post( that’ll be post 1 toyou) there is verbatim evidence there if these scriptures are to be believed
     
    But you see the bible even tells us that those outside of the Hebrew/Israelite family recognised multiple gods
     
    "Woe Unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness" (1 Sam. 4:8).
     
    Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged to Daniel that "your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings,..." (Dan. 2:47).
     
    Hespoke of Daniel as one "in whom is the spirit of the holy gods" and told Daniel "I know that the spirit of the holy gods isin thee" (Dan. 4:8-9, 18)
     
    Hisqueen also spoke of Daniel as one "in whom is the spirit of the holy gods" and said that he had "wisdom like the wisdom of the gods" (Dan. 5:11). 
     
     
    If you opinion is worth anything -then perhaps you might give some evidence. Until then, it is merely an assertion.
     
    The bible makes it clear there is/way more than one god and they had families of gods.
     
     
     
    I notice you have completely swerved my question AGAIN!  here you go, here’s another chance to ignore it.


    The god of the Hebrews Confessed that he was jealous of other gods. If there were no other gods what had he to be jealous of? Moses was told strictly not to  make images of other gods or to worship any other god, if there are no other gods how could anyone make an image of other gods?
     

  • Stephen
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    --> @Grugore
    That's OK. You believe whatever you want.
    I will believe what I believe is believable and not what isn't clearly believable.


    There will be no excuse on Judgment Day. See you there.
    Oh, please, make up your mind, either my sins have been forgiven via a most violent sacrifice or they haven't. If they haven't, then someone was brutally murdered and died in vain.

    Now, to the question:

    The god of the Hebrews Confessed that he was jealous of other gods. If there were no other gods what had he to be jealous of? Moses was told strictly not to  make images of other gods or to worship any other god, if there are no other gods how could anyone make an image of other gods?
  • disgusted
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    --> @Tradesecret
    You are basing an argument on an English language convention, which is simply absurd. What letters were used as a name for your god before an Englishman decided it should be a capital G?
    Old English, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch god and German Gott .
    Oddly, the exact origin of the word God is unknown.
    All that we know for certain is that the word God is a relatively new European invention, which was never used in any of the ancient Judaeo-Christian scripture manuscripts which were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin.
    Amusingly,  none of the prophets, sages and disciples who wrote down the various books of the Bible would recognize or understand this recently invented word God. Yet people fight over it!
    You need to get over it.
  • Stephen
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    --> @disgusted
    Oddly, the exact origin of the word God is unknown.
    In the scheme of things / Time, god is a relatively new Greek word. The original Mesopotamian epics never use the word god or gods with either "g". In fact they never use the word at all, they simply referred to these beings as Lords..... plural