I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?

Author: Theweakeredge

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Elminster
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@Theweakeredge
It goes into whether you have an orthodox textualist viewpoint or whether you believe more modern views of christianity.  These "laws" are considered to be the highest moral code in the bible

It's also not repenting to "someone" with no moral authority. If you are entertaining the idea of the bible and christianity then God is "the one and only" moral authority.  He is the scale for objective morality. It's also not just "those ten rules". It's taking the teachings of christ in the bible and reading what they say and attempting to follow them as closely as possible. No one succeeds with it. That's the point of christ dying, he bridged the gap between God's anger and us as sinners. As long as you strive to be the best you can be, have repented to God and mean it, and are actively trying your best then you are forgiven. The difference is choosing to be homosexual goes against biblical teachings. You can be trying to get away from that life style and struggling and still manage to get into heaven but openly embracing it implies a lack of repentance which would mean you can't. 

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@Elminster
That is an easy thing.

But without The Church, there is no Christianity. The fruit of this "Christianity" outside of The Church is the modern atheistic and anti-Christ worldview that dominates the world today. 
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@Mopac
How do you define "the church".  A physical church is not a requirement for christianity. If you are referring to the church as a group of people (which I would imagine you are) then anyone who is saved is apart of the church.

Catholics have a bad habbit of being isolationist with their beliefs. That's fine with me, we just will always agree to disagree. I don't think there is one path to Christ (other than repentance). Choosing a sect of christianity is not the prime factor in salvation. So if the claim is that Catholics are the one true sect, then by all means own it. It doesn't harm me either way.  
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@Elminster
The Orthodox Catholic Church.

That is, the church the Roman Catholics broke away from a thousand years ago. Their falling deeper into heresy sparking the protestant reformation. 

It is the original church. It is the very church of the first millenium, of which it was always understood as being the only church. 


The type of ecclessiology you are expressing is not how the church has historically understood itself.

But this is probably not the topic to discuss this in. I instead point you over to 


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@Mopac
In your mind. What do you have to do to be saved?
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@Elminster
Maybe cresting another topic would be better, already at risk of hijacking this one.
Theweakeredge
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@Elminster
Honestly I could deal with a lot of the things there, but

choosing to be homosexual
I don't choose to be homosexual. Full stop.
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@Tradesecret
God loves you, whether you love Him, or not. God loves you so much, Hee was crucified, for you, and rose, from the dead. YOU, are precious.
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@YeshuaBought
God loves you, whether you love Him, or not. God loves you so much, Hee was crucified, for you, and rose, from the dead. YOU, are precious.
Thank you YeshuaBought, but it is Totally non-sequitur. 

Can you explain why you have written this for me? 


Theweakeredge
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@YeshuaBought
Does she though?
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@Tradesecret
It's almost getting to the point where everything in the Religion forum is addressed to you.
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@Theweakeredge
Of course you choose to be homosexual.

Some orthodox spiritual warfare 101

When the thought comes to you, what do you do? Entertain it.

Now that you have coupled with this thought, what do you do? You fantasize.

What next? You act.

It all started with consent to demons. When you do that, they make nest in your soul. You chose to let it in. Now it doesn't seem like a choice because it has dominion over you. But make no mistake, the demon can be evicted.

Your homosexuality is no more innate than addiction to crack. Who you truly are is so much better than this lie.



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@Mopac
What? No, all being homosexual is, is having a sexual attraction to males whenever you are one yourself. You can be gay and never have sex. I do not choose to be attracted to guys, I just am.
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@Theweakeredge
What? No, all being homosexual is, is having a sexual attraction to males whenever you are one yourself. You can be gay and never have sex. I do not choose to be attracted to guys, I just am.
Without getting into choice and biological arguments. I find that hard to understand and to believe. 

I choose I am attracted too. I am married. I am attracted to my spouse. I am not attracted to other members of the same sex or of the opposite sex. I choose not to be attracted to others. This is my choice. TO be attracted or NOT to be attracted. 

In the past I have chosen to be attracted to lots of members of the opposite sex and also to lots of members of the same sex. This has always been my choice. And when I have engaged in such relationships it was always my choice. 

I choose my path - and this includes who I am attracted too. I do not think attraction is a passive matter - but an active matter. It must be - otherwise - we could end up being attracted to anyone - and never have the reciprocal attraction back to us.  It is true that certain people have certain characteristics which we might find attractive - but at the end of the day it is still our choice whom we are attracted too.  And it is certainly our choice whom we choose not be attracted too. I choose for instance not to be attracted to children.  This is an active choice. And if a child was attracted to me - I would counsel them choose otherwise. 



 
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@Theweakeredge
I'm sure you believe that.

The word "Psychology" can be understood through Greek etymology. "Psyche" meaning "soul" and "ology" meaning the study of. Basically, psychology is soul science.

A great deal of Orthodox spirituality is psychology. No one understands it better. We are experts. What can I tell you about what we know?

You are not the thoughts that come to you. You are not the feelings that come to you. Understanding that, let me go over again what I am saying.

The first stage is when the thought or feeling comes to you. At this point you can either choose to ignore it or entertain it. We have many different methods to stop a demon when it first introduces itself, the primary method being prayer.

As you are not orthodox, chances are you don't really know how to pray properly. That being the case, I have a more fun method when the demon comes. Tell him to go away. He'll respond, "Why should I?". Then, tell the demon "Oh, I'll give you a reason!" And smack yourself with a stick. Now you might think that sounds silly, but eventually the little bugger will get the picture. Really though, it will create a psychological adversity towards having these thoughts. 

Now you may be thinking, "Oh, he just thinks the idea of me beating myself with a stick is funny!" And you are correct. It is a legitimate method though, but nothing replaces prayer.

Now if you do not drive the demon away, the second stage is coupling. During this stage, your mind is entertaining the thought, feeling, demon. It has found a place in you. You let it in! Don't think otherwise. It is easy to get taken advantage of if you do not know how to wage spiritual warfare. At this stsge of coupling you are now fantasizing about the thought. You are being controlled by the emotion. It is this stage that the devil gains strength in you. It becomes harder and harder to resist. The dangerous part about this stage is what comes next.

The third stage is when the fantasy itself turns into action. How did it get to this point? Consent, it was consent the whole time. And now you find yourself giving your will over to a demon.

The longer you stay in this sin, the duller your conscience becomes. Early on there may be feelings that what you are doing is off in some way. Through repetition, it becomes more and more natural to sin without feeling wrong about it. This is not because it is harmless or not wrong, but because you have become desensitized at this point. The devil has control.


The good news is that these demons can be exorcised. While they hold you in chains now, those chains can be broken. All it takes is a little faith. Faith the size of a pea. That little bit of faith allows The Spirit of Truth to work in you, and clean you. To consent to the healing of Christ Jesus.

But as I said, it requires faith, and faith isn't simply a belief you have in your head. It is a movement, a real work. That is something you have to want for yourself. No one can push it on to you.





Theweakeredge
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@Tradesecret
You are biologically wrong - you use nothing but an anecdotal example to prove your point 

You do not choose who you are attracted to - if you can - I have no clue how to do that. I choose to pursue relationships with others, but even when I am dating someone I still feel attraction for others, maybe not romantic attraction, but I don't choose to feel attraction for anyone. You really don't know what you're talking about here.
Theweakeredge
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@Tradesecret
No its not - it's really not - pedophilia is a psychological condition like depression or psychopathy and we ought to prevent people with it from acting on their desires. You do not choose to not be attracted to children, you passively aren't.

If you aren't convinced by that study, then I should ask that you give this book a read documenting how naturally occurring homosexuality is and how it is biologically determined factor in populations in order to reduce overpopulation and such

Theweakeredge
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@Mopac
No. Instead of trusting the wacky pseudo-psychology that is you, I'm going to trust biologists and psychologists on this one. You are wrong. We have attractions and compulsions that come to us independent from our will, now, we can choose to act on those attractions and compulsions, but we can not choose to feel them. You are just wrong.
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@Tradesecret
(Also you're arguing from personal incredulity, which isn't valid)
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@Theweakeredge
You are biologically wrong - you use nothing but an anecdotal example to prove your point 

You do not choose who you are attracted to - if you can - I have no clue how to do that. I choose to pursue relationships with others, but even when I am dating someone I still feel attraction for others, maybe not romantic attraction, but I don't choose to feel attraction for anyone. You really don't know what you're talking about here.
Hi theweakeredge,

I do choose whom I am attracted too. I really am. But what is attraction?

Is it that I find other people desirable or nice?  I can look at two females and find them both attractive to look at. But the attraction that we are talking about is more than just observing them both to be desirable.  But say I do find myself attracted to one of them? What does that even mean? There have been people over the years that I have enjoyed company with - and spent significant time with. But I don't fantasize about them. That is clearly a choice.  

Your study was unhelpful.  It provided no serious arguments. It was just an abstract understandably, but not at all helpful. 

Why is it difficult for you to choose to feel attraction?  It is a choice. How old are you? 

I choose whom I love. I choose whom I fantasize about. I choose whom I do  not want to be attracted to. This is not anecdotal. This is direct testimony. This is direct evidence.
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@Theweakeredge
No its not - it's really not - pedophilia is a psychological condition like depression or psychopathy and we ought to prevent people with it from acting on their desires. You do not choose to not be attracted to children, you passively aren't.

If you aren't convinced by that study, then I should ask that you give this book a read documenting how naturally occurring homosexuality is and how it is biologically determined factor in populations in order to reduce overpopulation and such

I find it difficult to believe that you don't choose your own path.  I reckon you think it is your own body. But if you can't choose who you are attracted too - then it really is not your body.   

I take the view that pedophilia is more than a psychological condition - it is a crime and it is wrong. It is also a choice. And the only way we can stop people from doing it is to make them aware that they are responsible for their own actions and choices and decisions.  People can be pedophiles and never act on their desires.  People do choose to be attracted to children.  

Homosexuality occurs naturally? Like in animals. Animals who also naturally have incest. Animals who naturally kill each other. Animals who naturally eat each other. Animals who eat their own children.  Animals who commit genocide. Saying something occurs naturally is not an argument for it.  Animals are different from humans. I did not read the book. I am not going to spend money on something which is obviously flawed logically and philosophically. I did read the abstract of the book. 


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@Theweakeredge
(Also you're arguing from personal incredulity, which isn't valid)
False. 

I was arguing from eyewitness testimony. This is called direct evidence. IT is not anecdotal evidence. It is not personal incredulity. It is real evidence. 

I choose whom I am attracted too. This is true. And I have no reason to lie about it. 


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@Tradesecret
Is it that I find other people desirable or nice?  I can look at two females and find them both attractive to look at. But the attraction that we are talking about is more than just observing them both to be desirable.  But say I do find myself attracted to one of them? What does that even mean? There have been people over the years that I have enjoyed company with - and spent significant time with. But I don't fantasize about them. That is clearly a choice.  

Isn't that what theweakeredge means? He means that men are sexually attractive for him to look at. Not that he's fantasizing. 
Theweakeredge
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@Tradesecret
You're a lawyer, right? Then you must know how easy it is for witnesses to get details wrong, and how unreliable eyewitness testimony is by itself, what is this? Do I have more scientific proof? Yup!

More? Why didn't you just ask!
That's not satisfying enough to compel you? Here's some more!

Theweakeredge
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@Tradesecret
You take the view? You aren't convinced? None of these are actual counter-arguments to correlate your opinions. They are literally just opinions. Nor have you actually rebutted my evidence, you are blatantly being unreasonable now.
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@Tradesecret
I've already proven how it's unreliable, especially without other arguments backing them up, and that literally told you about the gene that likely makes me attracted to males and females. You have not actually proven anything, nor made any compelling counter-arguments, my age here isn't relevant nor is it something I care to share with you in particular. Of course, you could always just look at my profile, but I suppose that must be hard to do from your glass castle.
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@Username
So what does finding someone else attractive mean? And why is it relevant?

Theweakeredge
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@Tradesecret
This is untrue, there are lots of things you don't control in your body, most of your consciousness isn't actually controlled by you. Why you want or are compelled by things aren't controlled by you, the rate that your heart beats isn't controlled by you, the expansion rate of your lungs isn't controlled by you, when you get random erections, those aren't controlled by you. There are so many things you have zero control over. And telling yourself the lie that you do is nothing but unreasonableness and stubborn want for a place where scientific literature didn't surround us.
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@Tradesecret
It is whenever you feel favorable for a person for no other reason than the attraction stated: so sexual attraction would be to gain a favorable or pleasurable feeling from sexual qualities of that person, such as body shape, attractiveness, etc...

A romantic attraction is based on: Romantic feelings or the personality of the other people, 

and so and so forth
Mopac
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@Theweakeredge
There is no such thing as an innate crack addict.

There is no such thing as an innate alcoholic.

There is no such thing as an innate homosexual.

If you want to cheapen who you are by identifying with where you choose to rub your genitals, HAVE  A BLAST.

I don't accept that as being you.