Why do you believe as you do?

Author: aletheakatharos

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#31
Utanity
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@Sum1hugme
Went the atheist route bc, after growing up biblical literalist fundamentalist Christian and almost going to college for preaching, I started really analyzing my faith. Really the final nail in the coffin for me was the anthropocentrism being destroyed by the sheer vastness of the Universe. Since then though I haven't found any argument for God that didn't have serious flaws.
Let me lighten you because sure weir only the pinprick on the bottom of the elephant so thats why we need god so that we do count. You will find that being the atheist you will only experience what you think is logical but it is more logical actually to think beyond that crapola and embrace god. Sure there is no obvious logic about god but everything that we no about the true god makes sense and wouldnt you rather live in more than one dimension.
#32
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@Utanity
Murderers Chris Watts, David Berkowitz, Jeffrey Dahmer and Karla Faye Tucker  claimed to have found or rediscovered God after being incarcerated. Now that they have confessed their sins, they will get to go to Heaven. This is why I am an Atheist.
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#33
aletheakatharos
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@Sum1hugme
That makes sense. I could not believe in something that I saw serious flaws in either. Do you think you are a happier person now that you are an atheist and true to yourself than you were before?
#34
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@aletheakatharos
Yes
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#35
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@Sum1hugme
I really glad you are in a better place now!
#36
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I figured non-believers weren't invited to this thread, what a pleasant surprise! 

There are a million tiny little reasons or moments in my life that kind of 'revealed' the lack of a god, but the question isn't how I got here, right? THe reason I believe what I believe is because it's what makes the most sense. The lack of some indemonstrable superpower literally watching over and causing all the stuff that happens in life doesn't make sense, such a power having any reason to care about if someone jacks off or has premarital sex or is gay doesn't make any sense, or caring if people who live for the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things worship it or not doesn't make any sense, that being be mad at his creation because they do exactly as he planned for them to do, or that being seeming surprised when people do what they do and then getting mad at them...the enormity of space, the weird forms of life, the struggles of humans, the stories in the books, they just don't make sense. IF I were to try to believe in a god, it'd be a pantheistic version, because that makes far more sense than a single entity being responsible for everything, but those aren't real either, all the stuff they used to explain has been explained by science. Once you start tugging at the strings, the whole sweater comes apart for me. 
#37
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@ludofl3x
Well stated.
#38
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Stephen Hawking said during an interview with El Mundo in 2014: “Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by ‘we would know the mind of God’ is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn’t. I’m an atheist.”
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#39
aletheakatharos
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@ludofl3x
I figured non-believers weren't invited to this thread, what a pleasant surprise! 
Of course! I am so tired of hearing the same old arguments for and against beliefs. I am much more interested in understanding the why so I can respect everyone's point of view. I find I learn much more that way. I'm glad you feel welcome!

There are a million tiny little reasons or moments in my life that kind of 'revealed' the lack of a god, but the question isn't how I got here, right? THe reason I believe what I believe is because it's what makes the most sense.
I like that! I think that is a good way of putting it.
The lack of some indemonstrable superpower literally watching over and causing all the stuff that happens in life doesn't make sense, such a power having any reason to care about if someone jacks off or has premarital sex or is gay doesn't make any sense, or caring if people who live for the blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things worship it or not doesn't make any sense, that being be mad at his creation because they do exactly as he planned for them to do, or that being seeming surprised when people do what they do and then getting mad at them...the enormity of space, the weird forms of life, the struggles of humans, the stories in the books, they just don't make sense. IF I were to try to believe in a god, it'd be a pantheistic version, because that makes far more sense than a single entity being responsible for everything, but those aren't real either, all the stuff they used to explain has been explained by science. Once you start tugging at the strings, the whole sweater comes apart for me. 
That is really thought provoking. I have never thought of it quite in that way. Have you always had this perspective or has it developed over time?
#40
ludofl3x
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@aletheakatharos
That is really thought provoking. I have never thought of it quite in that way. Have you always had this perspective or has it developed over time?
It eroded over time with little milestones or moments of "oh that makes a lot more sense" along the way. I grew up Catholic, and by the time I was making confirmation, I knew that wasn't quite right. I tried "being saved" for a very short while, that made even less sense. Eventually I had to face the fact, I couldn't just 'believe' it any more. It's not quite as dramatic as that sounds, it was pretty liberating and gave my life and the life of everyone around me a lot more  'significance' to use an imprecise word! 

The reason I'd say a pentheon of gods makes more sense (but again, is still not real), is because those gods didn't give one fig about humans, and their understandably human emotions (because they were imagined by humans!) saddled them with the propensity for desires and pettiness and feuds, feuds that would inevitably cause some sort of disaster (a flood, a tidal wave, an earthquake). These phenomena cost people their lives or livelihoods, and you just had to suck it up and figure "Well, that's how it goes."  THe "has a plan" version of a monotheistic god, the kind many Christians subscribe to, would imply that he plans for stuff like the tsunami killing a quarter million sri lankans, or Covid killing millions around the world, which doesn't square with the other purported properties or traits of that god. THe greeks ouwld say "Well, Poseidon and Hades were having a shit fit, and that caused a giant wave." The Christian says "Our loving god wiped out thos esri lankans because gay marriage, isn't our god awesome??" That's why I would say the pantheon is more sensible, if that was your question.
#41
Utanity
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@FLRW
Now that they have confessed their sins, they will get to go to Heaven. This is why I am an Atheist.
You see thats a popular miscontraception what people go to heaven because they confessed. No way ho zay because you have to be a true christian and true christians are so faithful to the true god that they dont go around putting peoples in the may tag then they eat them. Everyone sins and god he will way up your sins because they mite be only tiny inexcretions like leaving the cake crums on the pillow.

So now you know the truth about going to heaven and you know dharma wont be there will you now stop being an atheist?
#42
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@Utanity
LOL. Mikey.

And you've still got em hooked Mr Utan Ity.

Or is that my miscontraception.

I'm laughing so much, I'm leaving tiny inexcretions. 
#43
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@aletheakatharos
I believe in God because of personal religious and spiritual experiences, plus the facts point towards God.
#44
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@janesix
So where did GOD come from?.....Is GOD a proton that flits in and out of existence?......But surely the proton must have been created?

So thoughts point towards creation, and there are currently no facts.
#45
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@zedvictor4
God has probably always existed.
#46
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@janesix
1 dimensional strings have probably always existed.
#47
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@janesix
@FLRW
That's extremely vague.

One might say that the potential of a GOD principle must have always existed.....But that's still hard to comprehend.

Super dense black holes, strings, or floaty about blokes.....I know which is the hardest to comprehend.
#48
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@aletheakatharos
I agree that is a possibility, but as someone who prefers a literal interpretation, I like the six day creation perspective better.

That's fine of course, but is it realistic? and more importantly do we have evidence that the earth is not only very old, but was formed through a process? no one ever said that Genesis needs to be interpreted a literal depiction of how God created the world. It's an assumption to believe that. Not to mention the very symbolic overtones throughout the tale. The Bible is both literal and many times figurative, no need to make assumptions where not necessary, it's always better to use good common sense.

I don't want to be someone who cherry picks what to believe from the Bible.

Wow, that's a bit of a leap in logic. I don't cherry pick anyways so that's not the method in which I draw conclusions. I've been absorbing the Bible on my own accord since I was 8 years of age. I understand its style, I get it and there is no reason to make the assumption that evolution is not compatible with how God created the world through a succession of processes. If you want to assume God poofed the world together in 6 days literally that's your prerogative but that's why I'm here to share alternate points of view.
No one ever claimed Genesis to be a scientific description how God formed the universe, Christians assume that of course, but in reality not only did they not write the first few chapters of Genesis they have no access to know whether or not the Authors meant it as a literal depiction or a symbolic figurative one. So it's up to common sense and how one interprets the style of writing, to me its obvious it was just an idea meant to invoke the imagery of creating...rather than a literal account.

I agree that it is entirely possible, but evolution has some logical clashes with other Christian beliefs.

That depends on if evolution is being presented as a worldview and pushed as support for atheism/materialism, or if it's just being presented as an understanding of how things evolved to exist as they appear. The Bible only clashes with a Darwinian model of course, but that model makes unnecessary assumptions. The fact of the matter is that we have evidence in the form of records beneath the earths crust that oppose the notion Adam and Eve were the first humans. We have evidence that God created dinosaurs long before the literal record of a six day creation....If there are skeletal remains of human like beings that evolved over time (time that precedes Adam and Eve) then we need to recognize that fact and not sweep it under the rug. But there is no need to, because as I explained there is a process to bring things into existence and Genesis was not meant as a literal record of events. Adam being formed from the dust of the ground is analogous to humans beings made from the same elements as every other created thing. God didn't create man from dirt lol, and surely did not create a woman from Adams ribs, that is silly. These are figurative descriptions, Eve being made from mans ribs is symbolic for the reality that man and woman were created for one another, they fit together as a pair.

For example, in order to evolve, there must be natural selection and survival of the fittest. That requires sub-optimal versions of creatures to die.

We still see this reality today presently, all over the earth. Why deny it? this ensures that the process works to something that is useful.

If I was to interpret the Bible literally, death did not enter the world until Adam and Eve ate the fruit, sometime after creation was completed. If God used evolution to create, that would mean death would be de-linked from sin, and therefore the entire point of Jesus's sacrifice would be undermined.

It's only undermined if you assume that Jesus' sacrifice was relevant to a supposed "original sin" that we all must pay for now. If you assume that Jesus' sacrifice was to reverse the order of death then you've already undermined it because we all die regardless lol. The sacrifice of Jesus is relevant to our own sin committed not the sins of anyone else. As we apply it, it becomes only relevant for us personally it has nothing to do with Adam or Eve they were just examples. But we die a physical death anyways, so if you believe Jesus died for that then it was useless because we know we die.
In reality death is not linked to sin, that is the nature of the physical world as God created it. Sin is only relevant to choices we make as we make them, and right there is where Jesus' sacrifice applies to us. But as you know I'm not a fundamentalist Christian even though my foundation is the Gospels so my "doctrines" are not restricted to only that representation. I grew up being fed all that mumbo jumbo but in all honesty much of it is nonsense. It's has little significance in the real world, and spirituality is based upon the real world anyways.
IMO neither one of those objections have much weight. I'm not presenting this to be contentious either so don't take it that way please, I'm simply responding to your comment and giving you another way of viewing it. 


8 days later

#49
Polytheist-Witch
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Religion is not a science or field of science. My belief is based on personal experience and changes as those experiences change.