Dementia in heaven.

Author: zedvictor4 ,

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  • zedvictor4
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    I sometimes wonder.... If there is a heaven and one dies with a demented mind.... Then will one have a demented mind in heaven.

    Currently, though my body may be showing the sings of aging, I nonetheless, think as I have always done....So this would somehow support the value of the soul option, if I were to die compos mentis.

    But what if the soul has become demented.
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @zedvictor4
    I sometimes wonder.... If there is a heaven and one dies with a demented mind.... Then will one have a demented mind in heaven.

    LMAO, well at least I know nobody pays a damn bit of attention to what I've been writing for years. One of the biggest obstacles for atheists is that they believe the brain, the mind and themselves are intertwined as one unit. So they have no useful concepts of what each actually do and what they are.

    Currently, though my body may be showing the sings of aging, I nonetheless, think as I have always done....So this would somehow support the value of the soul option, if I were to die compos mentis.

    The physical body and all its components will begin the process of breaking down no matter what you do. There are things you can do to make this process much smoother of course, but eventually it will shut down entirely one way or another. This process of course is completely unrelated to what you will experience when you leave this world and that body behind. The process of dying is completely unrelated to the soul itself other than you will experience it as one observing it.

    But what if the soul has become demented.

    Lol, sorry this is very humorous to me. I must say, it's somewhat strange that you wouldn't know that the soul exists completely independent of the physical body. Of course the soul entered that body within the womb of its mother and will then experience everything through the perception of that body but once the physical body dies the soul is released.
    So because of the reality that the soul exists independent of the body.... once the soul is released from it that soul is also released from every single problem the body suffered so the soul itself is completely unaffected by it as it exists as one observing the body, but it is NOT the body. The body is simply a vehicle, and just like when you drive any such vehicle everything that vehicle undergoes you will notice while driving it however you still exist independent of that vehicle. So if you car gets a flat tire you can't drive it normally of course, so you have to fix it to regain normal operation but it is of no consequence to the driver other than having an external problem.

    Dementia is a process of brain function breaking down, and as brain function begins breaking down you will experience that process. But it is merely your perception alone, because you are the one observing that situation (you aren't the actual situation though). If you could picture yourself looking through a sheet of perfectly clear glass as you navigate this planet and that sheet of glass is your window to viewing this particular world (but you are not that glass). Now imagine the glass being marred or scratched, no matter where you look you will see that scratch. Now the glass has become warped, and everywhere you look you observe a warped image....now the glass has shattered and is no longer useful at all and so you leave that window behind.
    Obviously the soul and body are the same way, once the brain has become "warped" and begins to lose normal function so your perception and view through that brain are warped as well. Once you entered the womb of the physical body during conception your soul (you) was intertwined within the functions of that body which include the nervous system, the development of the brain and all that body uses to experience this world. It is much like being trapped within a cage, your soul is contained within this vessel and your brain acts as a component that confines your experience to this physical world. Since the soul is energetic, electrical and alive also the body which is a conduit for the soul must be an active medium capable of being a vessel for the soul.

    This is why I compare the brain to an electrical panel....it's simply an "electrical" component that regulates the flow of consciousness (soul)...and the physical body nothing more than a circuit board. If you compared the experience of the soul to a house obviously the house would be the physical body and the circuit panel where all the power is regulated and controlled would be the brain. However neither the house nor that electrical panel create electricity, it merely confines it to that house so the house can become something to be inhabited in a useful way.
    The actual mind is something of another subject really (one I would have to write much more about). The mind is a projection of consciousness and is basically nothing short of a storage area in which becomes useful for the conscious soul to store memory, categorize and access information. The soul has mind but the soul is the one observing the mind, and both the soul and the mind are subject to whatever a brain experiences but only while they exist within a body.

    Because both the soul and the mind exist independent of the physical body it renders the brain and body nothing more than flesh and bones, cells, blood and tissue. Without a soul the body is stillborn. And just the same once the soul leaves the body it regains normal perception of anything it observed or experienced through the human body.
    Anyways, I hoped this helps you conceptualize what it means to be soul. Hopefully you won't just ignore it and reject it because you're an atheist. Think about what I wrote here and if it makes sense incorporate it into your data base. If you need me to elaborate on anything just ask questions.

    Look up the term subtle body (spirit body) if you get time, basically the soul inhabits bodies for each plane of existence. Once you leave a particular world or plane you are present within the preceding one. Or when the soul is placed within an alternate world, it must have a vehicle useful for navigating that specific world. So each vessel depending on which place within creation is evolved to withstand that environment, it must have a body that correlates with each world or plane of existence. If the soul were to leave creation entirely it would have no embodiment and would basically be pure consciousness and mind. That is the state in which the Creator resides eternally though just like energy, consciousness pervades all of creation....in other words exists independent of form as well as within form. 

  • EtrnlVw
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    If you were to research NDE's and study/consider them you would get a useful depiction of what being a soul entails. Notice when an injury occurs or death occurs the soul is unaffected by either as it continues to observe OUTSIDE the physical body. It literally leaves the body and observes that body as one existing independent of it. So while they were within that body they suffered what that body endured, but once the soul released itself they were unaffected by any harm the body encountered. 
    "I survived Beyond and Back" is a great archive of actual testimonies and correlating medical facts of each participant. This includes how long physical death occurred or how long "brain death" occurred and doctor testimonials, so it's not just a show featured to proselytize any religious ideas or notions, it's a neutral study about normal people who left the physical body. 
    It does however support the proposition of the soul even though that is not the basis of this program, and if the soul exists as it is proposed then this is what we would see taking place. So something to consider here for any person curious about this topic. Getting into the spiritual worlds when leaving the physical body is something of another consideration because of the dynamics of these parallel worlds. They are vast and extremely creative, so one should not be put off with how diverse and dynamic the encounters are, remembering that the parallel worlds are wonderfully constructed and as various as the universe itself. The soul could find itself in any number of surroundings, there's not just one or two places the soul could experience rather when the soul leaves the body it's within another universe of itself and that universe or parallel plane of existence is as vast if not more than the one we're in. 
    The experience that the soul will encounter when leaving the body can be many different things because there are many places, many things and many types of beings and that includes positive, negative and everything in between. Nonetheless the conscious soul survives death of the physical body and whether one believes that or not every soul will experience it. 

  • Stephen
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    --> @zedvictor4
    I sometimes wonder.... If there is a heaven and one dies with a demented mind.... Then will one have a demented mind in heaven.


    You have wasted your time time Vic,lad.
    I asked about heaven sometime ago and I  you found that not even Christians  have a clue about what goes on in heaven or where heaven is  no more than they do about  "gods will" that need to be done or how they even became christian in the first place. 

    The ones that give it a shot ended up contradicting one another as to if or not it was a actual  place and what actually goes on there, not to mention who qualifies for one of those "many mansions".

  • ethang5
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    --> @zedvictor4
    What's a demented soul?
  • FLRW
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    What's a demented soul?
    A Trump voter?
  • FLRW
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    In sharp contrast to popular opinion, the current scientific consensus rejects any notion of soul or spirit as separate from the activity of the brain. This is what Francis Crick, codiscoverer of the structure of DNA, called “The Astonishing Hypothesis.” In Crick’s words, “You, your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal iden­tity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules.” Reflecting on what he calls the scientific image of persons, the philosopher Owen Flanagan stressed that we “need to demythologize persons by rooting out certain unfounded ideas from the perennial philosophy. Letting go of the belief in souls is a minimal requirement. In fact, desouling is the primary operation of the scientific image.” The weight of the scientific consensus is distributed over many dis­ciplines and includes, as we would expect, the sciences of the mind (psy­chology, neuroscience, cognitive science). 
  • EtrnlVw
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    In sharp contrast to popular opinion, the current scientific consensus rejects any notion of soul or spirit as separate from the activity of the brain. 

    I don't care it's speculation. And the nature of consciousness is still an open question in science, so any "consensus" is an assumption. Not in spirituality though, it is fully understood and articulated. The evidence supports it. 
    Observing activity in the brain doesn't mean the brain creates consciousness anymore than reading activity using an electrical meter means that a circuit panel creates electricity. As long as the soul occupies the physical body there will be energetic activity within a brain that can be measured or observed, but the brain is nothing more than a component, it creates nothing. It's a fleshy conduit for the energetic presence of the soul. 
    If you were the results of neural firing you would have no recollection of who you were, no understanding of the past or the future. In fact, you would just be a succession of occurring electrical impulses presented as waves of thought but even having thoughts could only mean you are an actual being not a process of physical events. You would basically be reduced to that of flicking a light switch on and off....which is BS. 
    Consciousness equals soul which equals being which generates thoughts. Your brain simply confines your experience to a physical body. 

    are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules

    Lol just like your conscious being is nothing more than a series of impulses and neural firing? thanks Doc, I'm not that stupid. Thanks for summarizing what composes the physical body though, I already knew that....it's not relevant to the topic. We already know what the physical body is comprised of, we wish to know what a soul is and what that entails. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Currently, though my body may be showing the sings of aging, I nonetheless, think as I have always done....So this would somehow support the value of the soul option

    You should already know instinctively that you aren't neural brain activity, but an actual being observing through the physical components. There is no succession of physical events that can somehow generate a conscious entity, your natural intelligence should tell you that is stupid. 
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    I purchased two souls a decade ago. 
    What's the current price of a soul ?

    Also I'd say 37 is a prime time to go to heaven.  

  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Stephen

    Yep I know Stephen.


  • zedvictor4
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    And so are you saying that a body is a vehicle for a soul.....Rather than ones body being the vehicle for ones soul.

    This seems to render the self as irrelevant....An inconsequential existence, as if ones gathering of life experiences is meaningless.




    In fairness, I do understand where you are coming from....And I do run with the idea of  residual energy or data left over as the body is rendered to it's component parts, and I can see also how this might serve a universal or evolutionary purpose. 

    I can also run with a HEAVEN principle as a collection point for the above...And as I have stated for along time I run with the notion of a GOD principle as an ultimate evolutionary goal.

    In these respects, I can see that the self would be irrelevant and the body would be purely a vehicle for a soul in the form of residual energy or data.


    But I must stress...Definitely no floaty about bloke that looks like Gandalf...And the bible is still, just a naive fantasy version of the the same old hypothesis....That is to say, creation and evolution with a purpose.
  • FLRW
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    Under anesthesia, you consciously experience nothing, not even the feeling of time passing. When I had a two-hour operation, it was as if I closed my eyes and opened them two seconds later. I'm interested in how people have reconciled the idea of a soul so separate that it will go on to experience things consciously after death with the ability of a drug to cause a person to experience absolutely nothing consciously. Using the usual Christian idea of a soul, you would assume that the soul would experience at least the level of consciousness it would experience after death.
  • FLRW
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    But I must stress...Definitely no floaty about bloke that looks like Gandalf...And the bible is still, just a naive fantasy version of the the same old hypothesis....That is to say, creation and evolution with a purpose.
    And as Einstein said, " the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”
  • Utanity
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    --> @zedvictor4
    But what if the soul has become demented.
    You see this is the grate difference between the body and the soul because when your brain is waisting away it is a physical thing but it doesnt affect your soul. Even with people like you who are obviously in the spektrum your soul will be hole if you get to heaven.
  • Utanity
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    --> @Stephen
    I asked about heaven sometime ago and I  you found that not even Christians  have a clue about what goes on in heaven or where heaven is  no more than they do about  "gods will" that need to be done or how they even became christian in the first place. 
    You asked and you were told but then you were in the nile about it so it doesnt matter if God sends to you a whopping big broacher with the glossy pictures of heaven because you will ignore it anyway. I told you before that if you stay in the nile then the only place you will be going after your croaked it is floating down the river of fire.
  • zedvictor4
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    Exactly.
  • ethang5
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    What's a demented soul?

    A Trump voter?
    Is that the current scientific consensus? Because I was asking for actual reality, not, "what we think today that might change tomorrow."

    And are demented souls (Trump voters) worse than evil spirits (Biden voters)? I guess we'll know after minority employment drops back to dismal and poor people think they have to keep being evil spirits to keep their welfare checks coming.
  • zedvictor4
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    Must be time for bed soon  Mr E.
  • ethang5
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    --> @zedvictor4
    Is someone stopping you? Go sleep. We'll miss you but we'll survive.
  • zedvictor4
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    Nope just got up...Breakfast is on the table...And Mr E is metaphorically on the table, going on about all sorts of stuff.
  • ethang5
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    Lol. Yeah, I see you managed to find me in the politics forum. Be careful Stephen might get jealous.

    Do you want to know where I live Zed? It seem quite important to you. It's currently 1:30 am where I am.
  • zedvictor4
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    No...USA will do.

    Though you  previously mentioned Pennsylvania and recently mentioned Kansas, so I'm guessing the former if it's 1.30am.

  • ethang5
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    Correct. I mentioned Kansas, not that I lived there.

    Other than count sheep, what do you do in Wales?
  • zedvictor4
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    So what about Pennsylvania then?.....You did mention Philly a while back.


    I Hide from Jihadists and covid-19....No Just Joking.


    Work part time as a delivery driver, renovate our cottage, walk the dog a lot and cycle a lot.

    And In between times I interact with others via the internet.


    The days fly by.