Book banning

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12.26.2020 07:25PM

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@HistoryBuff

do you significantly hold back in defending yourself (ie no punching or any other vigorous defense that could potentially kill) and make it easy for the other person to kill you, or do you do everything you can to stay alive and risk going to prison for decades?

On the other hand, do you just shoot someone who looks suspicious because you, "fear for your life"?

For example - - [LINK]

AND,

For instance, the federal law against voluntary manslaughter states that defendants should receive fines, a prison sentence of not more than ten years or both.

California's manslaughter law, on the other hand, gets a little more specific and states that anyone found guilty of manslaughter should receive a prison sentence of between three and 11 years.

In both instances, judges have some leeway to determine the specific sentence that they will give a particular defendant. This is where aggravating and mitigating factors come into play. [LINK]

#62

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12.26.2020 07:28PM

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@3RU7AL

On the other hand, do you just shoot someone who looks suspicious because you, "fear for your life"?

i'm not arguing that this defense is always used properly. There are lots of times when it isn't. I agree that judges should look at the circumstances when someone claims they were defending themselves to see if that claim is legitimate. I'm pointing out that making everyone who defends themselves a murderer if their attacker dies is not a feasible solution.

#63

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@HistoryBuff

A basic police takedown can cause someone to die.

I'm going to hazard a guess that cops kill slightly more people with their service weapon than they kill by following proper police standard operating procedure (i.e. NOT resting their body-weight on a subdued suspect's neck or back).

#64

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12.26.2020 07:31PM

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@3RU7AL

I'm going to hazard a guess that cops kill slightly more people with their service weapon than they kill by following proper police standard operating procedure (i.e. NOT resting their body-weight on a subdued suspect's neck or back).

my point is that even if you do everything you are supposed to do, people can die in any confrontation that involves physical contact. Presuming that this person is a murderer in this scenario is not a good idea.

#65

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12.26.2020 07:33PM

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@HistoryBuff

I'm pointing out that making everyone who defends themselves a murderer if their attacker dies is not a feasible solution.

In many cases there are no witnesses.

Making a manslaughter charge automatic is the best option (A.LL L.IVES M.AT.TER).

#66

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

12.26.2020 07:44PM

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@HistoryBuff

people are fragile things.

Yes, you are indeed very fragile when you choose to ingest a lethal amount of recreational drugs and then provoke a police encounter.

#67

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12.26.2020 07:50PM

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@HistoryBuff

If you didn't intend to kill a person, then it isn't. It is an accident.

It's also MANSLAUGHTER.

#68

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12.26.2020 07:51PM

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@HistoryBuff

If that happens, why should the victim of the attack be considered a murderer?

I never suggested a murder charge.

#69

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12.26.2020 08:01PM

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@3RU7AL

If you didn't intend to kill a person, then it isn't. It is an accident.
It's also MANSLAUGHTER.

No it isn't. It's only manslaughter if you kill someone while committing another offense. IE if you were driving drunk and killed someone while driving, that is manslaughter. If you were obeying traffic laws and an accident occurs where someone dies, that isn't manslaughter.

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12.26.2020 08:02PM

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@HistoryBuff

my point is that even if you do everything you are supposed to do, people can die in any confrontation that involves physical contact. Presuming that this person is a murderer in this scenario is not a good idea.

I never suggested a murder charge.

My point is that even if you do everything you are supposed to do, people can die as a result of your actions.

It doesn't matter who you are or what you do for a living.

When any average person accidentally kills someone, it's called MANSLAUGHTER.

I'm really not convinced we should make some special exceptions for ANYONE.

Aren't we all supposed to be "equal under the law"?

#71

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12.26.2020 08:06PM

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@3RU7AL

When any average person accidentally kills someone, it's called MANSLAUGHTER.

i don't think that is true. An accidental death is an accidental death. it is not manslaughter.

Aren't we all supposed to be "equal under the law"?

yes. and self defense applies to everyone. IE equal.

But the fact remains that some jobs require you to take actions that could result in someone's death. If those actions are what is required to do that job, and we want people to do that job, then we need protections for people doing those jobs. Or no one would do them. So your options become no police, security guards etc, or protections for those jobs so that they can do them without risk of criminal penalties for doing the job they were hired to do. Now if they are doing them incorrectly and that results in someone's death, they should absolutely be liable for that. Like if they do a chokehold there are not allowed to use that results in death.

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#72

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12.26.2020 08:08PM

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@HistoryBuff

conspiracy is a crime.

Until you accept that there are at least 3 thresholds to mount before "conspiracy" is a crime, you cannot claim it is.

Any real political or personal philosophy can be discussed without calls to violence

Ever hear "When in the course of human events..." That's HISTORY, my friend. Acknowledge it!

your point is that we should do nothing to prevent crime and only try to punish people after it occurs?

Did I say that? No. There's an item [of historical significance, by the way] called "due process." See the 4A and 14A. Kind of necessary components of crime prevention that does not give carte blanche to law enforcement.

no one is forcing anyone to think the same way............ I can accept that there are certain books that should be banned.

another contradiction, of which you are bloated. Ma gavte la nata [please be so kind as to remove the cork].

#73

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12.26.2020 08:09PM

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@HistoryBuff

Manslaughter

The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection. [LINK]

Accidentally killing someone while you're committing a crime is called, "FELONY MURDER".

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#74

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12.26.2020 08:12PM

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@HistoryBuff

You don't have to fire your weapon to kill someone.

Precisely the point we're making to you. I suppose, along with some books, you want to ban guns. So you ban guns. Then we kill with spoons. You ban spoons. So, we kill with thumbs. Going to ban thumbs, now? Do you see why I maintain that the line to human extinction is forming over there on the left? The banning LEFT? Get it?

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#75

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12.26.2020 08:15PM

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@HistoryBuff

It's only manslaughter if you kill someone while committing another offense.

Would you like to show me that statute? What a load of shyte.

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#76

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12.26.2020 08:27PM

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@HistoryBuff

MANSLAUGHTER is the unlawful killing of another person without involvement of malice aforethought, i.e., it was not pre-meditated. It may be coincident with another crime, but is not dependent on either the intent to, or the commission of another crime.

You decide to cross the street by jaywalking. Then, you steal an apple from a fruit stand. Your theft is not predicated by jaywalking. They are separate, distinct, though sequential crimes. As a prosecutor, you must separate and qualify each as separate crimes not predicated by sequence. Come on, man. Is this so hard?

#77

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12.26.2020 08:46PM

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@HistoryBuff

But the fact remains that some jobs require you to take actions that could result in someone's death. If those actions are what is required to do that job, and we want people to do that job, then we need protections for people doing those jobs.

He is the first white officer in Minnesota to be criminally prosecuted in the death of a black civilian. The maximum sentence for third-degree murder is 25 years; the maximum for second-degree manslaughter is 10 years. [LINK]

Well, I guess that means, "nobody will every become a police officer ever again".

Although,

Even if Derek Chauvin is found guilty of murdering George Floyd, he's still eligible to receive a $1.5 million pension [LINK]

So, it might still be "worth the risk".

#78

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12.27.2020 12:05AM

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@fauxlaw

Yes, a person is indeed very fragile when one chooses to ingest a lethal amount of recreational drugs and then provoke a police encounter by violating innocent people.

#79

ILikePie5

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ILikePie5

12.27.2020 12:18AM

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@fauxlaw

At some point liberals have to realize they’re only harming themselves and their futures

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#80

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12.27.2020 07:03AM

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@Greyparrot

@ILikePie5

Yep, you're both on track in my book, except that I recognize on ly a handful of true Liberals left. They're all Progressives and Socialists, now. I never met a Progressive policy that did not have its antithetic policy fighting each other. Socialism is just a failure everywhere tried. Their respective rationales makes me laugh.

#81

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12.27.2020 01:31PM

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@fauxlaw

Socialism is just a failure everywhere tried.

China seems to have deciphered the magic formula for broad economic success.

Do you propose we all copy them now?

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#82

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12.27.2020 03:40PM

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@3RU7AL

Oh, so China's economy is strictly of a communist design? Don't make me laugh. As it happens, USSR hold's the record of a purely communist system at 75 years. The average duration of a socialist state is 40 years. Meanwhile, USA has been a capitalist enterprise since before it was the USA, albeit a highly taxed one from 1620. That's 400 years, bud. Tell me when China reaches that threshold. Until then, dream on.

#83

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