Nationalism is racist

Author: Mopac ,

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  • Mopac
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    I don't see how nationalism is intrinsically racist, but CNN was on at my work all day yesterday repeating over and over about dog whistling and equating nationalism with racism and hating Jews.

    I just don't see it. Isn't "one nation under God indivisble with liberty and justice for all" in the pledge of allegiance they urge kids to repeat like a mantra in school?

    Isn't it preferable that elected officials prioritize the places they were elected to represent or work for to the interests of everybody else.

    It really doesn't make sense to me. What is so racist about being a nationalist? 
  • drafterman
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    I don't see how nationalism is intrinsically racist, but CNN was on at my work all day yesterday repeating over and over about dog whistling and equating nationalism with racism and hating Jews.
    What was the context of the discussion? The general philosophy of "nationalism" or the increase of white nationalism that has begun to increase in popularity and significance over the past couple of years?

    I just don't see it.

    Isn't "one nation under God indivisble with liberty and justice for all" in the pledge of allegiance they urge kids to repeat like a mantra in school?
    For the great majority of its lifespan, the United States has not been about "liberty and justice for all." And what does that have to do with nationalism?
  • Mopac
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    --> @drafterman
    I don't equate being American with being white, so I don't care what David Duke says. 

    Just because there are white nationalists doesn't mean that this is what nationalism about. There are National Socialists, so does that mean all socialists are nationalists?

    I also don't believe that Donald Trump equates nationalism with whiteness, and that seems to be the context of the discussion. 



  • DBlaze
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    --> @drafterman
    noun

    1. 1.
      a person who advocates political independence for a country.

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @drafterman
    Ahhahaahaha ...david duke has like 100 followers and he himself has zero political power. There's more members of the KKK (about 3000) than followers of David Duke.

    There's more flatearthers than white nationalists. Does that make you worry?


  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Mopac
    No nation on the planet is composed of one race, not even Israel. There aren't even any pure races in existence anywhere on the planet.

  • drafterman
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    --> @Mopac
    You didn't answer the question. What was the context of the discussion CNN was having?
  • drafterman
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    --> @Greyparrot
    I'm not really concerned about that particular person's influence. But things add up:

    1. Trump refuses to really distance himself from the white nationalists who have latched onto him.
    2. He will go out of his way to not malign them.
    3. He will basically go up to the line of touting the same messages as them without crossing into the territory of explicit white nationalism.

    If I am a white nationalist, but I'm savvy enough to not use the word "white" when I say "nationalist" does that mean I'm magically not a white nationalist anymore?

    Again it's the same issue with the blackface. Yes, you can take a scalpel and carve out and cherry pick specific words and specific acts that, evaluated independently absent context and history and say: "this isn't racist" but that is not an accurate or honest representation of reality, unless you're a toddler reading from the dictionary.

    This stuff has context. It has history. It is stupid and blind to ignore that.

  • drafterman
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    --> @DBlaze
    I couldn't find "DBlaze" in the dictionary. I guess that means you don't exist. Sorry.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @drafterman
    1. Trump refuses to really distance himself from the white nationalists who have latched onto him
    Rather than show you the hundreds of times this has been debunked...why do you care if all 3000 KKK Klansmen voted for Trump? Do you think 3000 people are enough to swing national policies?

    Honestly, why do you think this is a problem?


  • DBlaze
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    --> @drafterman
    I don't even understand what you are saying.  I found Nationalist in the dictionary, how does not finding my username in the dictionary have anything to do with anything?  I could say that I couldn't find drafterman in the dictionary too, but that would just feed on to your nonsensical response.
  • drafterman
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Grey:

    If my point is that you can take any complex scenario, extract specific and cherry picked elements, and show that they, devoid of all previous context, are fine, and that's exactly what you do. Do you think you're rebutting me or proving my point?

    I will explicitly concede that you can find cherry picked elements, strip away all context and present them as benign or at the the very least neutral. But do you think that is really a constructive way to respond to a statement which talks about things "adding up"?
  • drafterman
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    --> @DBlaze
    I just have it on good authority that only things that appear in the dictionary exist and, if they do, they can only exist in the exact manner described. So, you don't exist. Sorry.
  • Swagnarok
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    If an American refers to himself as a nationalist, the most straightforward meaning is that he's an American nationalist. No reason to automatically assume he means white nationalism.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @drafterman
    No I actually agree with you, it's just that when the number that adds up is around 3000, why should you care? They, like David Duke, have no power to change anything in this country, and if anything, those numbers are declining.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @drafterman
    I get what your point is which is that if an evil person agrees with any policy, then the policy must be tainted to some degree, but it's a stupid conclusion.

    Many racists in this county, even some members of the KKK, are democratic socialists. Does that taint the American Democratic Socialist movement?

  • drafterman
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    --> @Greyparrot
    But Trump does. Do you think he's somehow inoculated from being a white nationalist simply because he had the baseline level of political savviness to omit the word "white" from "white nationalist?"
  • Mopac
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    --> @drafterman
    None of the claims you are making actually have truth to them. You are repeating the false things that propagandists are repeating over and over again with the hopes that people believe these things to be reality.

    I am being sincere when I say that I think you've been duped.

    And I don't say this because I particularly like Donald Trump, I'm saying this because I care about what is true, and the media really does lie and make up stuff about him. They push a lot of opinion and speculation as truth too.

    To be frank, I think the rhetoric of these media outlets is a great deal more divisive than the stuff that actually comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. They misconstrue everything he says.

    In fact, all this gaslighting tends to make me sympathize more with him.


    Still not voting though.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @drafterman
    It's incredibly unlikely that he is any skin color supremacist, even orange.
  • drafterman
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    --> @Mopac
    You still haven't answered the context in which CNN was discussing the term
  • mustardness
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    --> @Mopac
    You could vote against Trumpanzees.

    If you can see the truth of idio-umps rehtoric that uneccessarily encourages violence, then you either have your head in hole-in-the-ground,

    or you are a Trumpanzee.  If you do not vote against idio-ump, then you are a Trumpanzee.

    There is no apolitical when it comes to speaking and supporting truth, as well as having some moral integrity in those regards.

    The angry mob is what idio-ump encourages in all of rehtoric and then he says its the democrats who are the angry mob.

    This is the man who stated that he is so popular he could shoot someone in the street and he would still be poplular.

    If he shot an immigrant person can you imagine how much the Trumpanzees would surround him a force field of love?
  • Mopac
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    --> @drafterman
    Trump saying he is a nationalist.


    And they were talking about it literally all day.

  • Mopac
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    --> @mustardness
    All I hear from the so called "left" is divisive rhetoric, lets not pretend they are better.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @mustardness
    If he shot an illegal immigrant person can you imagine how much the Trumpanzees would surround him a force field of love?
    In most states, it's perfectly legal to shoot an intruder that climbs over your wall into the property of your home uninvited.

  • DBlaze
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    --> @drafterman
    I always thought the term nationalist was a good thing, until I got more into politics, and I never understood why the term was used differently than it's true meaning, but I was brainwashed into believing it is a supremacist thing, and now I understand.  That is the problem, it is not a supremacist thing, and the world needs to go back to the true definition, someone seriously messed with that word. I think people became too lazy to say the word White in front of Nationalist, that Nationalist all of the sudden became synonymous with White Nationalist.

    It started as a Nationalist which to me always had a good connotation (unless you are a globalist), then someone added White to it, which made it racist,  then they took out White, and it still racist.  Just a strange progression all around.

    His context was the difference between a Globalist and a Nationalist...  He said he was not a Globalist, and he is a Nationalist because he cares about our country and it's interests first, but you didn't hear that from half the media outlets, or the newspapers.  

    I prefer to use the dictionary in defining words.... it's much more useful that way, and people can converse intelligently if both parties know what the words mean.  That may not be the case in this situation.