AMA About...

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  • EtrnlVw
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    EtrnlVw
    There are a lot of threads titled "AMA" that usually refers to the person creating the topic but this one will be,

    Ask me anything about God, deism, the soul, creation, religion, spirituality or anything related! There won't be any bias as I will not use any specific religious source to answer the questions unless you have a question specifically about religion. That's not to say the answer won't reflect what is taught by religion as some things are unavoidable because there are universal factors that are involved but overall I'll just answer without an appeal to scripture unless otherwise asked. It can be an objection OR an inquiry, all questions or objections are on the table. 


  • SkepticalOne
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    What is the basis of morality for "God"? How do you know?

    How long has "God" existed? How do you know?

    Why did "God" create existence? How do you know?

    How did "God" create? How do you know?
  • janesix
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    Do you think it is possible to reach God without meditation, prayer, or yoga?
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    I'm going to answer the questions how you ask them but "how I know" won't be of much value to you, so you will have to be content with my answers and we can build from there. I know why you are asking how do I know, but how I know will be more of a distraction to what could be useful for you.  It will also contribute in adding way more content than I'm willing to commit to in a single post, so for efficiency I'll simply answer the questions. 
    To get any useful insight out of this you may have to just be content that I know what I'm talking about, at least temporarily. 

    What is the basis of morality for "God"?

    The basis of morality for God is an elusive inquiry because it's a misunderstood subject and one of not much relevance, but the basis of morality for creation is simple. With God, the concern for morality is moot because God is a singular Reality so there is no conflict of interest or opposing interactions, there's nothing to determine what is good or bad really. But for creation the basis for morality is carried out by cause and effect laws, so God is not really sitting around punishing and rewarding people for the actions they commit rather the person themselves interact within the laws of cause and effect without the need of God imposing any will.
    In creation we have natural laws and then we have moral laws, both are driven by cause and effect only one deals within the forces of nature and the other deals with the intentions and actions of sentient beings.
    The basis of these moral laws have nothing to do with beliefs as are projected by religious sources, but are based upon right and wrong intentions and actions instead of what someone may believe about this or that. These laws apply to both those who may be believers or those who may not be believers it matters not to the law of cause and effect. The governing factor for moral laws are..... are the actions we are committing either positive or negative to ourselves or to others and what are the intentions and motives behind our thoughts and interests and the consequences of such directly effects our future experiences one way or another.
    Good intentions and deeds contribute to positive outcomes while bad intentions and deeds lead to negative outcomes, and these outcomes are not limited to time or space they can unfold in any number of ways and any number of time frame.

    How long has "God" existed?

    Outside (transcendent) of time and space and the ongoing movement within creation is a static fixed Reality. So actually there is no real past and future, that only applies to the appearance of matter and the measure of birth and death, in essence time is only an illusion even though we can experience it within creation. Our bodies begin and end because matter itself is subjected to birth and death but behind the physical bodies consciousness (soul) exists without time. There is no infinite paradox because God does not exist within a state of time passing. Awareness, that is the awareness of God is the fixed foundation upon which the moving picture play of the universe arises and dissipates.
    God exists as a state of awareness, it simply exists but exists separate from the notion of a birth and death, again....only the appearance of matter and form and the span in which it lasts creates the illusion that time exists. So while God is indeed eternal, because like energy consciousness is neither created or destroyed it's not a matter of "how long", rather it simply exists in a state of being, there is no frame of time passing. Time then is only relevant to matter because matter has a beginning and then an ending, that's how we measure what we call "time".
    So God exists eternally but independent of how we perceive time. 

    Why did "God" create existence?

    I don't believe there is a single reason but if you could imagine existing in an alone state observing nothing but self awareness at some point God is going to get interested in doing something different with Itself. The investment God has in creation is that God can observe, and observe something other than being alone. So God creates a type of simulation where real experiences can be observed. This allows God many channels of observation rather than a single channel.
    If you could imagine being in a room alone with nothing but self awareness for no amount of time what would you do? what if someone offered you a TV with an unlimited amount of movies would you take it as a form of entertainment? of course you would so this same concept extends to creation and why God would do it. God is creative by nature and consciousness is a prerequisite for expressing oneself, so creativity is a natural expression of consciousness. This is why humans will always have an innate desire to create and express that which it finds compelling and interesting.
    Of course no one can give God the option of having a TV lol....so God creates Its own entertainment through creation on many different levels of conscious experience. For us souls, we are but objects within the simulations of God, and God has access to each of our channels of experience as we interact within the simulation. I'll leave it that for now, your imagination should be able to take over from here giving you an idea why God would create worlds and souls.

    How did "God" create?

    Great question, it begins with that fixed state of conscious awareness we went over. Even though awareness is a fixed static reality, out of that fixed state of existence comes the "movement" or "vibrational quality" of that conscious activity, and this conscious activity generates what we call energy. Both energy and awareness co-exist then, they are both "eternal" and omnipresent and while we know energy is not created it is indeed generated. It is the byproduct of the conscious activity of God.
    This eternal and boundless field of conscious activity generated megatons of energy. This energy was manipulated and condensed, and then released to create what we call a Big Bang which then enabled God more materials to create with through the fusion and chemical boding of force and heat. So basically energy (being a byproduct of the existence of God) was the first step in the process to begin creation. From there we know through what we study through the scientific method how processes begin and what those results are, needless to say God utilizes such processes to bring about desired results within the universe which is but a moving picture play of of the interactions between energy and element creating what anything God desires to manifest.
    One must know that the rules for the physical universe as we observe it only apply to this one plane of existence. Transcendent of the physical world the rules change because the laws of physics change and so the experiences are very different.

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @janesix
    Do you think it is possible to reach God without meditation, prayer, or yoga?

    Those are tools to open oneself up to various conscious channels, the point being that the physical perception is just but one channel of experience. Consciousness though is not limited to one channel of observation so there are methods we can use to assist in becoming aware of other places to experience outside the immediate physical perception.
    Prayer is useful for petitioning and giving while meditation is useful for listening and receiving and so both are very valuable exercises but to become aware of the Creator one simply has to absorb It not necessarily find It.
    I personally don't think we have to "reach" God because God is all pervasive and always present, basically there is nowhere you can go where God is not present so the idea we have to reach for God is slightly misconstrued, we just need to become aware of that presence. Someone said the seeker of God never finds God, he's always seeking outside of himself when the answers where always within him and all around him all along and so by seeking elsewhere God always evades him. This is kinda true, we aren't always aware that we are always very much apart of God and there's nowhere to go where we are separated from that. At some point we just need not seek and just absorb God in the moment, stop thinking and just observe rather than chasing ideas and unrealistic assumptions, distorted ideals and other people's doctrines. 

    Don't get me wrong, I get that we can "seek and we shall find" because we need a method of penetrating deeper beyond what we believe are the limits to our observations but the objective is not to "find God" rather it is to get outside our limited views of the world. To get outside our faulty thinking and emotional turmoil. Spiritual principles are really more about getting oneself familiar with submitting our presumptions and aligning ourselves in position to receive rather than finding God somewhere. We don't need to reach God we just need to free ourselves from the burden of believing we are separate from God more than anything else. Once you become aware of that you will feel more contentment knowing you really don't have to achieve anything to reach God.

    This doesn't mean you should avoid spiritual practices but I think you will find they don't really aid in making you feel any closer to God, in reality you can't get any closer to God than you are right now just as you are. If you can picture the soul as a spiritual traveler within the creation and framework of God and that all of creation is already within God, it's easy to see then that no matter where you go you were and are always within God already. You can always travel outside the physical body through practice to many places and conscious levels of experience but no matter where you are, God is still there.
    So my answer to the question is yes obviously, because God is always present there is nothing you can do to make that any more real. There are things to do to remove yourself from your own limitations though, but they have nothing to do with the location of God but more to do with your own barriers to that Reality.

  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    what is your personal favorite argument for the existence of god?
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Dr.Franklin
    what is your personal favorite argument for the existence of god?

    I don't really find most of the traditional arguments for God very convincing, at least in the manner of converting someone. None of them really satisfy my personal intellect TBH...I tend to just use my own logic, rationale, experience and observations of the universe to get people considering something they may not have thought about. Since I'm not anti-science or held down to some fundamental religious ideology I feel free to just put all the pieces together from a myriad of sources as they make sense to my rational mind as long as it aligns with reality. So my approach is a bit unorthodox. 
    I know God exists, so it's simply a matter of being capable of articulating what is true about that objectivity. 
  • Dr.Franklin
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    interesting perspective
  • FLRW
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    I don't really find most of the traditional arguments for Bumba very convincing, at least in the manner of converting someone. None of them really satisfy my personal intellect TBH...I tend to just use my own logic, rationale, experience and observations of the universe to get people considering something they may not have thought about. Since I'm not anti-science or held down to some fundamental religious ideology I feel free to just put all the pieces together from a myriad of sources as they make sense to my rational mind as long as it aligns with reality. So my approach is a bit unorthodox. 
    I know Bumba exists, so it's simply a matter of being capable of articulating what is true about that objectivity. 
    Bumba was the creator. At the beginning of time, there was only darkness and water, and Bumba, the creator, the first ancestor, was alone.
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Does God have a soul? 

  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    I'm going to answer the questions how you ask them but "how I know" won't be of much value to you, so you will have to be content with my answers and we can build from there. I know why you are asking how do I know, but how I know will be more of a distraction to what could be useful for you.  It will also contribute in adding way more content than I'm willing to commit to in a single post, so for efficiency I'll simply answer the questions. 
    Ask me anything except "How do you know?", eh?

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @FLRW
    I know Bumba exists,

    Again, what does it matter the name? I've already went over this with you...is anyone alive in there?
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Tradesecret
    Does God have a soul? 

    God IS soul. The soul is a term used to describe the nature of God...what God is. Even though it is generally not recognized as such, soul is synonymous with consciousness. At the very base layer, that is the fundamental nature of God, soul is just another terminology for the same phenomenon. Consciousness (soul) is the backdrop out of which all other things arise. 
    So when we refer to our conscious being (inner man), we are also referring to our soul. 
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    Ask me anything except "How do you know?", eh?

    I focused on your questions that were of significance, you ask me a series of questions that take time and thought to answer and then ask "how do you know" after each question and you think that is conducive to my time? I don't have a problem with the question in general but it's your intentions that bother me. I like sincerity I don't like to play games. How I know for each inquiry is a very intricate process, as my knowledge on the subject matter extends in many directions so there is no efficient way for me to tell you how I know for everything I write. Either you find the content satisfying to your intellect or you don't, how I know is of no importance for you. 
  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    I appreciate the effort you put into your answers, but "how do you know" is the most important part to me. I can't reasonably consider something 'knowledge' if it can't be verified. 
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    Simply not true. 

    Verify that reason and logic is correct without resorting to axiomatic thinking and circular reasoning. It can't be. Therefore - by your own admission you can't reasonably believe it is knowledge. 

    It will come down to your own experience.  Not mine. But Yours. And this thing called "blind faith". Not just faith - but blind faith. 



  • Tradesecret
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    Interesting thoughts, thank you. 

    Yet I don't concur completely . The story of Genesis indicates that God breathed in human body - and that this then became a living soul.  Hence - both body and life or consciousness together constitutes a soul.  

    Still -  there is an aspect of what you say that is compatible with the OT. It certainly often uses interchangeably the heart, or the kidneys, or intestines with the word soul.  I would take the view that spirit and soul are the same.  

    The inner person and the outer person.  I suppose I take the view that the difference between the inner and outer persons is a mirage. We might not reveal our inner person to many people - yet that is still us on the outside.  

    When we are resurrected according to the Bible, we will not just be spirits or a consciousness wandering around we will have real bodies.  

    Yet I am understand there is a difference for the temporal and the eternal.  I note that Psalm 11 talks of God hating the wicked and the violent  with his soul.  Yet God does not have a body like humanity.

    Thanks EtrnlVw
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    I appreciate the effort you put into your answers, but "how do you know" is the most important part to me. I can't reasonably consider something 'knowledge' if it can't be verified. 

    That's why I said it's not useful for you, because of how you will expect or presume "verification". It's not going to be something that I can demonstrate for you and have verified by science or whatever it is you feel it should be "verified" by. So I show you the value of what I'm sharing through rational thinking, logic and realistic answers that correlate with reality as we observe it. I can break it down for you how I know something to be true but there's no way for me to verify it for you in a way that you might find satisfying. As I said, it's not efficient for me to explain a complicated system of experience, observation, correlating evidence, cross referencing and many different sources of information for each answer I give. We have to have some level of trust here, and if you find the answers to be acceptable we can elaborate on them. The first step is for me to give you content you find worth considering. I don't expect you will agree with my own observations and my own process of gaining knowledge. If what I'm saying is true, it's completely irrelevant to what you are asking anyways. 
    I don't have single answers for how I know something to be true it's not that simple. My answers are contingent on a lifetime of experience. 

  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @Tradesecret
    Verify that reason and logic is correct without resorting to axiomatic thinking and circular reasoning. It can't be. Therefore - by your own admission you can't reasonably believe it is knowledge. 

    So, by your view logic and reason can't be verified thus 'verifiable' is not a reasonable request of anything? Stop with the absurdity. 
  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    That's why I said it's not useful for you, because of how you will expect or presume "verification".
    It is a simple and reasonable request simply to understand from whence your answers come. I have my answer - again, thank you for the time you've invested.
  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Tradesecret
    Interesting thoughts, thank you.

    Yes sir.

    Yet I don't concur completely . The story of Genesis indicates that God breathed in human body - and that this then became a living soul.  Hence - both body and life or consciousness together constitutes a soul. 

    Yes you will have to understand my answers aren't limited to what the Bible says, that's not the intent I'm aiming for. I've been a Christian since I was a young man so I can certainly relay only Christian theology but again. that's not my main concern.

    One of the things we probably will disagree on is that I believe much of Genesis is figurative and symbolic. So I would have to argue that God did not create man from dirt or breath in a human body and it became a living soul.
    Being made from the dust of the ground is analogous to us being made from the same elements as every other created thing....it's a lot like atheists saying "we are made of star dust"...
    God breathing into human form animating it just means we have Gods living qualities within us that are innate to us. We know how human bodies are made and they aren't made with dust lol.
    Eve being created with Adams ribs is a figurative event meaning women and men fit together, they were created as a pair, they were meant for each other. We know that girls aren't made from the ribs of boys, it's a figurative statement.

    The soul exists independent of the physical body, the soul came out of God before it was sent into creation. So in other words you existed within God before you existed within the physical body prepared for you by your parents. The soul (your inner being) is a separate reality from a physical body, the body is simply the vessel for the soul.
    The physical body has nothing to do with consciousness, consciousness belongs only to the soul. The brain does not create consciousness, it is a component that confines the souls experience to a physical body. So the body has no relevance to a soul other than providing a vehicle to navigate the physical world. The body is how we interface with the material world, but when the body dies the soul leaves that body.
    I'm not going to argue over what the Bible says unless I have something useful for you to consider about it, I know what it says because I've been reading on my own accord since I was a young kid. But as I said my answers will not be dependent on that alone so you will have to be patient with that.
    I'm going to be as short as possible here with my replies so if I fail to elaborate just ask me about anything. 

    Still -  there is an aspect of what you say that is compatible with the OT. It certainly often uses interchangeably the heart, or the kidneys, or intestines with the word soul.  I would take the view that spirit and soul are the same. 

    A lot of what I will say will be compatible with the Bible because the Bible has some good useful information, but what I write will not be limited to the Bible.
    The soul and spirit can be used interchangeably but a "spirit" body is distinct from the soul itself...this is where religion sort of mixes things up. They believe that the spirit body is the soul but that is not so...The spirit body, is also known as the subtle body (look up that term) and this is the form you are present within when you leave the physical body. It is the covering of the soul like that of the physical body which also covers the soul. The physical body confines you to the physical world and the spiritual body confines you to the spiritual worlds. Yet the soul is the part of you that is observing through those forms, the soul itself has no true form. The reason for this covering, is so that you have a point of reference within the created worlds that confine your soul to locations therein. There's a lot to this I won't touch on at this moment but if you're interested just ask about it.
    The heart is often used in scripture analogous to the inner most part of yourself but again, this is figurative language....but the kidneys and intestines have no relevance to the inner soul at all lol, these are just functions of the physical body which is just a mechanical vehicle for the soul, without the soul the body is stillborn. The only thing that animates the physical form is the soul itself.

    The inner person and the outer person.  I suppose I take the view that the difference between the inner and outer persons is a mirage. We might not reveal our inner person to many people - yet that is still us on the outside. 

    Well that depends on the context I guess, if you're referring to the outer person as in the material make up of your physical image the inner person (soul) is quite distinct from that.
    The inner person can also refer to the deepest aspects of a person, their thoughts, their interests, their motives, their desires, their emotions ect ect but all those things are a factor because first there is the soul. The outer physical form is but a shell. 

    When we are resurrected according to the Bible, we will not just be spirits or a consciousness wandering around we will have real bodies. 

    If you're resurrected within the physical realm again you will have real material bodies. The whole resurrected bodies/soul arising at some point in the future thing is not an accurate depiction. As soon as your body gives up, the soul is released from that body, and this can be verified by the evidence and through other religious sources. The soul doesn't remain underground while the body decomposes and then resurrects that is a misconception. Again, you have to understand that I'm not trying to follow the doctrines of what Christianity teaches unless they are ultimately true so I hope not to offend you. I certainly know what the Bible says in the passage you refer to but there are countless examples also in the Bible that spirit beings exist apart from what you call a real body.
    The only loophole in favor of coinciding what I'm saying with your theology is that in order that you "resurrect" within the physical world, or earth is that your soul must have a physical vessel to interface with the material world. But buried dead bodies coming out of the ground is disturbing. Most likely you'll be given a new body and the resurrection thing is metaphorical or misunderstood. At any rate you should fully expect that your conscious being (soul) will leave the physical body at death, this is almost certain. Which BTW is a good thing, because you will be transported to the Kingdom of heaven.
    This would open a whole new subject here about what the afterlife entails. Which you would probably find very interesting. But don't rely on the theory that your soul remains in the dirt until a resurrection because you will be quite surprised as the soul leaves the physical body, at least be prepared for that.
    Don't think I'm being I'm contentious here, I'm just trying to explain my understanding of the subject. 

    Yet I am understand there is a difference for the temporal and the eternal.  I note that Psalm 11 talks of God hating the wicked and the violent  with his soul.  Yet God does not have a body like humanity.

    That's true, God doesn't "have" a soul which would depict that God carries it around with Him, rather God is a soul. The soul is the fundamental substance of what God is. The soul exists independent of physical form, and likewise our soul (that first originated with God) exists independent of material form as well.
    The reason I pointed out that consciousness is synonymous with the soul is because that is the fundamental substance of what God is as well, they refer to the same thing. That may not be an orthodox way of understanding the terminology but they both express the very foundation of what God is. 
    If I say, hey! God is soul....you may ask what is a soul? or what is it made of...my answer is consciousness, this is the very first layer that makes up God. God is first a conscious Being, and there is no other factor or substance that precedes that and the soul is not distinct from that, it is that. Religions use words to express what it is they may not have words for, or maybe failed to fully understand what it is they are giving names to. In Hinduism and many other eastern philosophies this concept is fully articulated and understood. The soul and the conscious inner being are one and the same fundamental substance, there is no other substance. 

    Thanks EtrnlVw

    Thanks Tradesecret! maybe we can collaborate on some of these things even though we may have some differences.

  • EtrnlVw
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    --> @Tradesecret
    This term explains more along the lines of what I believe, it's not a religion for me per say but articulates what I believe is most accurate about the world. This seems to coincide more with reality and spiritual phenomenon as a whole, and so its a universal worldview. 

    Spiritism-
    "the nature, origin, and destiny of spirits, and their relation with the corporeal world".
    "Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world."

    Personally I don't see this as being distinct from Christianity but that's just my take on it. But I'm also an Omnist in regards to religion so I have more of a wholistic approach to the subject. 
  • Tradesecret
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    --> @SkepticalOne
    Verify that reason and logic is correct without resorting to axiomatic thinking and circular reasoning. It can't be. Therefore - by your own admission you can't reasonably believe it is knowledge. 

    So, by your view logic and reason can't be verified thus 'verifiable' is not a reasonable request of anything? Stop with the absurdity. 
    You jump to so many conclusions. 

    I never said any of those things. I rejected your argument that knowledge is only knowledge if it is verified - and obviously that requires some kind of objective process.  

    And it is not logic I am rejecting - it is yours.   

    I would take the view that reason and logic is knowledge - that does not require verification to be considered knowledge.  It stands alone - since it is an axiom. 
  • Sum1hugme
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    --> @EtrnlVw
    What do you mean by the words "ultimate reality." 
  • SkepticalOne
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    --> @Tradesecret
    You jump to so many conclusions. 

    I never said any of those things. I rejected your argument that knowledge is only knowledge if it is verified - and obviously that requires some kind of objective process.  
    Of course you didn't, and I never suggested axioms don't exist or that they should be verified. That is you jumping to conclusions - we weren't talking about axioms...unless, of course, you think Theism/god/spirituality is axiomatic. Do you?