Is nature more powerful than science?

Author: Tradesecret

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Timid8967
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@zedvictor4
Trade was/is a highly conditioned Christian theist.....
zedvictor4,

I guess I am pleading ignorant here.  What is a highly conditioned Christian v a non-highly conditioned Christian? 

I have never heard that term before. 
zedvictor4
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@Timid8967
Well, it should speak for itself.

Nonetheless:
Conditioning relates to the establishment of a database, and the comparison would be in the intensity of belief and importance attributed to said data.

For some people everything amounts to a GOD, whereas for most, GOD is just for Sunday mornings.
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@zedvictor4
For some people everything amounts to a GOD, whereas for most, GOD is just for Sunday mornings.
So

a conditioned Christian thinks God exists everyday but a non-conditioned christian thinks God exists only on sunday. 


zedvictor4
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@Timid8967
Loosely speaking:
One, thinks about it seriously, everyday.....And the other only casually thinks about it on a Sunday morning.

And all are conditioned with theistic data, even the most ardent atheist, the difference is in how we utilise said data and the conclusions we draw from it.

We don't pop out of the womb a fully programmed theist or atheist....We have to acquire data, and then, variously assume or believe.
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@zedvictor4
Trades[ecret] gone.

Don't count your `chooks` Vic lad. Tradesecret is far far too arrogant and ignorant and up his own jacksie   to be able to be gone for long. He can't control himself.

He won't be able to resist the opportunities that arise on religious forums such as this to show off  his qualifications or his imagined authority in all matters biblical. 

#243     Timid8967       05.05.21 10:45AM

"after reading some of Tradesecret's posts - which are on  balance, ok, I would be happy, no pleased  to be mistaken for him or her". 


#76       Tradesecret    12.23.20 12:54PM

"Ethang5 is a good friend of mine.  I have know him for a significant period of time. And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me.  

If I could be more like him, I would" . 


Kin-ya-tell who it is yet?



Outplayz
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@Tradesecret
This is ovbvious... it creates a response bc people suffer... duh. Is it spiritual... that's a lot the consider. Do people deserve to die, do people choose to die, do people choose to suffer... i have no clue, but... i can conceive of a reality where a natural disaster makes me suffer but i grow from that, and become better... so, overall,  maybe that is spiritual. and it needed to happen. To create people that become better from it, and deleted people that wanted to be deleted. Who knows. Wants and desires is so complex in general that wen you take it into the spiritual realm... becomes even more complicated. 

902 days later

Lemming
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@Tradesecret
I have heard that Edmund Burke has said,
The imagination is moved to awe and instilled with a degree of horror by what is "dark, uncertain, and confused."

People also say some nice things about awe, pleasant sensations of awe.
Vastness's in nature that dwarf us, giving a feeling of how small we are.

Though Arthur Schopenhauer also talked of small objects capable of giving feelings of the sublime,
Such as how light is reflected off a flower.
. . .

Science, Nature, Spiritual,
All seem broad definitions to me,
One's we're capable of using in slight different senses of the words.

Science can mean understanding, or 'use of that understanding.
Nature can mean objects apart from humans, or even include humans themselves.

Spiritual, even Materialists can use in their speech, though their meaning of Spirit might differ 'some, I think it is often similar.
Fighting Spirit, Spiritual Awakening,
For a Materialist, this might be more psychological and tied to the physical brain,
But end result of understanding what that fighting Spirit or Spiritual awakening means in forward 'action remains.

From my own viewpoint (Atheist) (Materialist)
Nature is another part of existence, and it is existence that controls and is controlled by itself.

Since I'm a bit in the Science is part of nature camp,
I'd say the same of Science, controls nature, and is controlled itself.
Though here again we come to senses of words,
If I define 'everything as nature, than is a person capable of littering?
I'd say yes, that a subtle vague distinction is understood.

Elements seem part of nature,
Man makes dams,
Lights fires,
Sparks electricity,
Blows air,
'Seems like man controls nature to me.
. . .
Can we control 'all of nature?
Doesn't seem quite that way to me,
I don't 'think launching a nuke at a hurricane would knock it off course,
But who knows what science will come to?
. .
But then there's bigger nature, stars,
Heh, though even those, man has made plans of how to control and make use of.
(Still fiction than 'achievable currently I think)
. . .
But ever vast nature grows,
And in my view ourselves part of it,
Seems hard to have 'absolute control.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Of how I 'respond to nature,
Well, I've a sense of fear and nausea if too high up near an edge,
Though high up and not too close to an edge, can be a wonderous feeling.
Maybe if I 'practiced, I'd free myself of vertigo, but I've not practiced.

Nature, even in understanding,
Well, 'many instances, even in understanding,
Human emotion, psyche, can be moved,
By empathy, awe, fear, sadness, so on.
. .
Some situations it's only understanding that 'draws out those responses.

Heh, though others, it can be the 'lack of understanding.
The imagination is moved to awe and instilled with a degree of horror by what is "dark, uncertain, and confused." - Edmund Burke

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@Lemming
Everything that occurs within a Universe at any given moment, is naturally occurring.   (zedvictor4)
Lemming
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@zedvictor4
From a certain point of view, I'd agree.