Who actually uses "Political Correctness"?

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Any time you have discourse between conservatives and liberals or anyone from an extremely right camp and somebody from an extremely left camp, the term: Political Correctness is thrown in there. But why? I've typically seen it used by conservatives who don't like... trans, gay, or racial equality, throw it at people who say things like: "Gender and Sex are different things", or even, "Gay people should be allowed to adopt same as straight people", etc, etc... but why? Do they assume that left-leaning people just... don't actually believe those things? What do these people think to motivates left-leaning people to lie to people on the internet over things like this?

Anyway, that is a little bit off-topic, who actually uses political correctness? Well.... typically conservative and alt-right people.... there called EUPHAMISMS. They've been a term forever... because people have used them... for a long time. Old conservative presidents used the euphemism of "job security" to be racist, or "family values" to be homophobic, and so and so forth. Let's talk about the alt-right though, they use euphemisms such as: "The Jewish question", to be super anti-semantic, "The great replacement" to be xenophobic, etc, etc, my point? Traditionally speaking, it has always been the right to hide things behind a political facade, not the left, the problem with the left is that its typically TOO honest for people to like it. You know.. like calling for Medicare for all and being called socialist? That type of thing.

So... why? 
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@Theweakeredge
At this point, it's a catch-all pejorative. It's like people defending "Cultural Marxism" or arguing against something claiming it's like "1984". It's not even that the ideas being attacked when they are deemed "politically correct" aren't worth defending sometimes, but that the Right's usage of it is so all encompassing the meaning becomes utterly nebulous – and the conversation entirely pointless. I, too, think you'll find it's a term mostly staunchly defended by liberals. I notice significant thinkers on the Left either not caring much about it or speaking outright against the concept.

I think calling them "euphemism" is correct, but I'd consider it to be mostly a right-wing dogwhistle. Unless someone specifically defines what it means when discussing it, I don't see a productive conversation occuring. 
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@acglade
Yeah.... really I think most people would argue that the left is being too blunt with "what they want", take this for example:

Mostly politically neutral dude in the US - Bob
Guy leaning pretty left: Steve

Steve: Health-care is an essential right in any developed world, it's astounding how America, one of the countries with some of the most developed medical technology, also has some of the highest rates of infant mortality! 

Bob: Sure, but thinking that everyone could get free healthcare is idealistic, what, do you think people should have food for free?


Or that sort of thing (for furthered conversation, yes, I do think it would be ideal if everybody could have food for free, do you people want others to starve?), like... a lot of left leaning people don't really hide behind things like: "You see, the cultural facism in America is spreading, and we should oppose that by letting them have less control of big pharma..." I mean, have you ever heard anybody say that? I haven't, but what have we heard? Cultural Marxism, because people don't want... rich people to have more taxes? I don't know, but I find the argument that the left is "arguing for political correctness" to be absurd and not very well researched.
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@Theweakeredge
Exactly. The Right needs to dress up their position with the veneer of their position being one in a larger cultural discussion/debate.  Taking your healthcare example: if they came outright and said, "I think people should die/go bankrupt if they can't afford healthcare," they would have no chance optically. If they come out and say though, "Cultural Marxists and politically correct communists want to demolish the private healthcare industry, just as they want to destroy free speech and individual rights," it becomes an entirely different discussion.

I really like Chomsky on this: "In fact, I think all of this screaming about 'Political Correctness' that we hear these days in the elite culture is basically just a tantrum over the fact that it has been impossible to crush all of the dissidence and the activism and the concern that's developed in the general population in the last thirty years. I mean, it's not that some of these 'P.C.' things they point out aren't true-yeah, sure, some of them are true. But the real problem is that the huge right-wing effort to retake control of the ideological system didn't work―and since their mentality is basically totalitarian, any break in their control is considered a huge tragedy."

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@Theweakeredge
Any time you have discourse between conservatives and liberals or anyone from an extremely right camp and somebody from an extremely left camp, the term: Political Correctness is thrown in there.
I don't usually interchange leftism and liberalism.  I know its commonplace in contemporary discourse and there's plenty of overlap but there's also a distinction that often gets thrown out.  LEFT-WING politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, universal civil rights.  LIBERAL politics supports  liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law.  A zero tolerance policy governing racism in school is quite leftist but not at all liberal.  Free economic markets are quite liberal but not very leftist.

But why? I've typically seen it used by conservatives who don't like... trans, gay, or racial equality, throw it at people who say things like: "Gender and Sex are different things", or even, "Gay people should be allowed to adopt same as straight people", etc, etc... but why? Do they assume that left-leaning people just... don't actually believe those things? What do these people think to motivates left-leaning people to lie to people on the internet over things like this?
The term began on the LEFT as a liberal critique of leftism and was coopted by the Dinesh D'Souza set as a sly FOX News critique of egalitarianism itself.  By the time Trump ran for president, political correctness had no real defined meaning for the right-wing.  Rather, like the word liberal or socialist, the term is just another right wing identifier for the doubleplusungood, detached from meaning or context.  I like acglade's Chomsky quote or Krugman: "the big threat to our discourse is right-wing political correctness, which – unlike the liberal version – has lots of power and money behind it. And the goal is very much the kind of thing Orwell tried to convey with his notion of "Newspeak": to make it impossible to talk, and possibly even think, about ideas that challenge the established order."  On the right-wing today, the lie that Trump won the 2020 election is  so PC that the GOP will vote you out of the party for saying otherwise.  Even a right-wing coup attempt must be cleaned up and justified and made correct.  Even (maybe especially) right wing critics of anti-democratic violence must be ostracized.

Anyway, that is a little bit off-topic, who actually uses political correctness?
I think the era of fine-toothed liberal critiques of leftist overreach are lost in or at least useless to our current schism.  When the critics of political correctness prove as now to be anti-democratic, anti-truth then the fine balances of franchise vs freedom are set aside and all good citizens rally to the over-arching and most manifest correctness of a constitutional republic and the incorrectness of tyranny,

Well.... typically conservative and alt-right people.... there called EUPHAMISMS. They've been a term forever... because people have used them... for a long time. Old conservative presidents used the euphemism of "job security" to be racist, or "family values" to be homophobic, and so and so forth. Let's talk about the alt-right though, they use euphemisms such as: "The Jewish question", to be super anti-semantic, "The great replacement" to be xenophobic, etc, etc, my point? Traditionally speaking, it has always been the right to hide things behind a political facade, not the left, the problem with the left is that its typically TOO honest for people to like it. You know.. like calling for Medicare for all and being called socialist? That type of thing.   So... why? 
The original point of left v. right was people v. king (or autocracy or hierarchy) in the question of rulership.  When a mistake is made in a republic, the people change executives and an honest appraisal can lead to better government.  When a mistake is made by authoritarian, the executive must suppress and conceal any honest appraisal to prevent a change of executive.  Therefore, rightism is inherently less honest as well as slower to improve government.

Consider Atwater's famous clarity regarding the southern strategy he ran for the GOP in the '80's.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger". By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this", is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger". So, any way you look at it, race is coming on the back-burner.
(Lee Atwater thought of Roger AIles his "soul brother") 

Trump's innovation was to drop the subtlety, to remove any policy or commitment to objective truth and insert himself, Trump's own emodiment as the racist-euphemism-in-chief.  So, it doesn't matter whether birtherism is objectively true,  what matters is that Trump establishes his racist credentials. Eventually,  even free and fair elections are willingly tabled so long as the tyrant is your kind of bigot.



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@Theweakeredge
What is this? Political correctness is not about what is being said. It is how you say it. There 3 reasons people oppose it.

1. It is just a form of virtue signaling
2. It is dishonest in nature.
3. It is a slap in the face to the lower classes who speak more plainly.

Political correctness is usually done by the left more because the right is more likely to have populist leaders, but it is an apolitical concept.

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@Bringerofrain
Well... no, you are just incorrect in almost every aspect. Political Correctness is literally about correcting a phrase which isn't politically okay to say and replacing it with something that is.... euphamisms. Which, yes has been used by both sides historically, but talking about the standard lexicon of both parties or "sides"? Its always been used by the right more. Again, "State rights" or "religious rights" being pc terms for being xenophobic and homophobic.
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@Theweakeredge
I think this is a problem with both sides of the political debate. Liberals think that concern for religious rights is code for homophobia and conservatives think that things like voter ID being gotten rid of is code for liberals wanting to steal elections by having illegal aliens vote. 

I would consider actually addressing your opponent's arguments instead of avoiding them by falsely assuming some malevolent intentions. 

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@Bringerofrain
How do you, specifically, define 'political correctness'?

Also, how do you differentiate 'virtue signaling' with someone engaging in politics? 


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Here is an example of political correctness, which is not the exact same as uephemisms or dog whistles.

Person not PC "fruits should not be allowed to marry"

PC person "home sexual marriage should be discouraged and replaced with a similar institution as marriage"


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@acglade
I should point out those aren't my arguments. I don't find anything wrong with decorum I understand it. I would say the difference between virtue signaling and being politically correct it would be the intent of the person doing it. Virtue singling would be like celebrities who wear red bracelets in support of AIDS. They do so only to get attention and look like they're good people. While being politically correct would have more to do with trying to say something in a way that doesn't offend most people's sensabilities and make them automatically reject the idea without considering it.
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@Bringerofrain
Well no... you see it was a whole thing about 5 years ago or so, whenever Obama made gay marriage legal - there was an entire thing about, "Priests not having to marry gay couples because of religious freedom." so, I was simply providing an actual example - no - that isn't how that works, I mean if a religion said, "You get free xboxes" you wouldn't actually get free xboxes as a part of "religious freedom" Ironic how you assumed to know what I was talking about and turned out to not know.
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Every society and wing/faction in society has its taboos. Learn them and respect them or pay the price.

You can say 'no, don't be a sheep' but a real rebel doesn't destroy a group to be an individual, they part ways and seek out a more accepting group or thrive as a hermit if need be. 

PC is inevitable, you gotta know the no-gos. Yoy don't say remotely racist shit in an ethnic group and you don't say the opposite in a strong tone in a neonazi or redneck crowd. Just know the crowd, and if you resent them work towards getting independent from them and keep your voews quiet. This isn't cowardice, it's surviving to live out your rebellious ways happily later via the path of most fluidity.

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@Theweakeredge
That is off topic. This is about political correctness. Whether religious freedom means some group gets to act homophobic or not is unrelated to whether they are being PC. 


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@Bringerofrain
Were... you just straight up not paying attention? The term "religious freedom" is a euphemism, or a pc term for being homophobic, not wanting them to be married. That was the point. Just pay attention.
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@Bringerofrain
I'm still curious what exactly is your definition of "political correctness". 

And I wasn't really asking the difference between being 'politically correct' and 'virtue signaling'. My question was working to imply and point out that any form of engaging in politics is a form of virtue signaling. You are virtue signaling against PC culture, are you not? 

Believe it or not, I'd tend to agree with you. Political correctness isn't something I'd really defend. The perception is that its a form of Left-wing thought; however, for the Left who formed the term in the 70s, it was always an ironic term of self-critique. What I really take issue with is how the right primarily utilizes it as a dogwhistle (just like "Cultural Marxism").  

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@Theweakeredge
I addressed those assertions in post 8.  Here is what I said.

I think this is a problem with both sides of the political debate. Liberals think that concern for religious rights is code for homophobia and conservatives think that things like voter ID being gotten rid of is code for liberals wanting to steal elections by having illegal aliens vote. 

I would consider actually addressing your opponent's arguments instead of avoiding them by falsely assuming some malevolent intentions. 

People are not adopting entire religions as a mask for what you term homophobia. Occam's razor suggests that religion is why people take on views you consider homophobic, and not as you assert, that they are homophobic and oppose gay marriage, so they pretend to be religious to justify that opposition. 

You also seem to be conflating euphemisms with dog whistles and both with political correctness.

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@acglade
I'd struggle to come up with a precise definition. I wouldn't call engaging in politics virtue signaling. I would think that engaging in politics would be more about the fact that you care about society and what happens to it then about signaling that you are virtuous.





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@Bringerofrain
I am saying - that political correctness is euphemisms.. like necessarily - they are the same thing. Second, I was giving you an example of a dog whistle... I didn't say anything about the whole of religion. 
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@acglade
I find it a bit disturbing that you agree with me on anything I said when I really haven't stayed in opinion one way or another. I don't oppose PC culture. In fact I engage in it myself when I'm at work.
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@Theweakeredge
A euphemism will be something like calling a toilet a john. it wouldn't be about dog whistles or having secret opinions that you camouflage with other pensions. As I think that it's possible you're using the term incorrectly and what you mean is dog whistles.
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I'll probably put it on my profile so everyone knows but you have to excuse my misspellings and grammar mistakes. The reason being is because I'm using speech to text a lot considering my condition.
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@Bringerofrain
No... I'm sorry but euphemisms mean to disguise something else as politically tolerable, its not "good for politicians" to be so publically homophobic, so they appeal to the over-religious population of the US. Again, I don't think you quite know the distinction. 
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@Theweakeredge
Here is a list of examples to help you. 



The question is, why are you assuming malevolent intent and not taking people with ideological differences as you, at their word and address what they are actually arguing as opposed to the malevolent secret beliefs you think they hold?

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@Bringerofrain
I am not arguing that every case of someone saying "religious freedom" is, as you say, "malevolent" I am saying that someone claiming "religious freedom" as a rebuttal from gay couples being allowed to marry was typically a euphemism. Similar to the entire "states rights" thing for a long time. I'm only giving examples of some phrases that have been used as euphemisms, nothing about the frequency of the phrase being used as one, nor the current activity. You seem to be assuming a lot of things, I know what a euphamisum. It's interesting that you haven't yet directly interacted with me explaining what a euphemism is, nor my original post.
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@Theweakeredge
Are you asking who uses PC to monitor hate speech?
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@Theweakeredge
I just think it's a good rule in civil discourse to assume the best intentions of who you are debating. maybe I have more faith in people and think they are being honest with their beliefs and what their arguing. However I do think most people are being honest. If they say that the oppose gay marriage on religious grounds it's because they really have a religion that tells them gay marriage is wrong. if they oppose it on some other grounds I assume that they're being honest about those grounds. At least as honest as a person can be I do know that people have subconscious biases and reasons for believing what they believe that they can't necessarily determine the root of and they rationalize them. Maybe in some cases religion is the way they rationalize their biases. I don't think however that they are at the very least intentionally covering up what they reallyy believe unless society is forcing them to in which case the problem is with society forcing them to hide their beliefs and having those beliefs go unopposed then it does with them necessarily hiding it to start with.
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@Greyparrot
That would be virtually all of big tech.
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@Bringerofrain
Perhaps people are being honest now, that's not really what I was talking about - I'm saying the defense, "religious freedom" is so obviously wrong and unsound that politicians are using it purposely as a euphemism. It is a purposely bad argument. If your religion told you to kill, the government wouldn't let you kill because of religious freedom, they use it to appeal to more people. This is... very typical, and yes, whenever I am arguing with somebody, I try for the benefit of the doubt. I am right now talking about euphemisms right now, which is by definition deceptive. 
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@Theweakeredge
Euphemisms aren't really deceptive. Maybe dog whistles. Also don't think religious freedoms are a bad argument here. I think it's something that we need to discuss as a society where religious freedom ends. it clearly you don't want to allow everything that a religion that could pop up any day would advocate for. However you still need to as much as reasonable allow people to practice their religion. If a person's religion is that they should not perform marriages for gay couples I don't see what's wrong with having marriages performed by a judge or close family friend religion that is okay with doing such a thing. religion as a defense is not such a terrible argument that you would think it's merely a dog whistle or a what would you call it a  thing that hides a person's real or hidden malevolent intentions.  

I think it should be pretty understandable that if a person believes they will burn in eternity in hell for marrying a gay couple, or if they have values that would allow them to do so, that they don't personally want to do it. 

I would suggest looking at the actual arguments from people that oppose your points of view. That way you don't have to make assumptions about what they believe in. I wouldn't just look at any random opposing view though, you see random opposing views everyday. I suggest you do what I would refer to as steel manning, which is the opposite of straw manning and ultimately what you do when you assume an opponent is being intellectually dishonest and has ulterior motives for their view.

No doubt, politicians appeal to the highest common denominator and will often choose words or sayings that are going to appeal to the largest demographic likely to vote for them. However you are assuming people who get more votes when they are intentionally vague, are good representatives of what your opponent's actual arguments are.