Universal Basic Income

Author: secularmerlin

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#301
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@RationalMadman
Perhaps no one 'deserves' more. Perhaps you must earn more. What does that have to do with a universal basic income emphasis on the basic? Who said everyone even wants more?
#302
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@secularmerlin
How do you 'earn' more if there is no equivalent to money?
#303
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@secularmerlin
I think you are confused with who I was replying to and the context of the Socialism discussion.

As for UBI, it's nothing more than a patchwork quick fix to a much deeper issue. Social Democracies don't use UBIs, Norway and Finland dipped their toes in and both reject it because they realised that their welfare system as well as public services are so well done that UBI actually was only beneficial to those that 'gamed the system' by hiding their wealth in assets.
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#304
secularmerlin
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@RationalMadman
I am not necessarily calling to abolish currency only that people be afforded necessities such as food, water, shelter and human contact. 
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@RationalMadman
If everyone across the board was given access to equal access to basic necessities then there would be no "gaming" the system.
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@secularmerlin
Of course there would, UBI only goes by income, not assets. It also neither factors in willingness to find employment nor skills and/or needs.

Also, the entire system is unfair on those older adults who are/were working class towards lower middle class that specifically saved money and suffered through decades (or around a decade at least) living with bare minimum, in order to retain it at a high interest rate and decent amount, just to realise they didn't need to as UBI would hit their nation anyway.
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secularmerlin
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@RationalMadman
If everyone receives the same benefits with no consideration for class or income then the system could not be gamed.
How is it unfair to the hypothetical elderly person you are referring to if they can now use their earnings entirely on things that make them more comfortable because their basic needs are being seen to? I am not proposing his earnings be confiscated.
#308
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@RatMan

Well, as I just stated, I do not prescribe a RBE.

I simply compared RBE with a monetary system.

I share the same issue with communism and pure socialism.......Both theoretically impossible and impractical......As natural human hierarchy, dictates social structure.

Art and Good Food are the aspirations of a developed species and it's developed society....In terms of social and intellectual evolution, we've moved on a tad from simply survival of the fittest.

Though I would suggest, that such inherent qualities are still what underpin modern social structure......We can only care, if we have the strength and ability to care.
#309
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@zedvictor4
If we were a truly caring society,  then what point money anyway?

If we were truly caring we would realise that money is a tool of human hierarchy and selfishness.


Universal Basic Income......But don't take a slice of my pie, as Mr Waters wrote.


When push comes to shove....Who actually cares about you, and who do you actually care about, when it impacts upon your pockets?

And being seen to be caring or being paid to be caring......And actually being caring......Are two separate things entirely.


Money....... Survival of the fittest without the big stick I suppose.....Not that that can be guaranteed.
TRIBALISM = MORALITY
#310
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@secularmerlin
Would this system of Universal Basic Income be achievable in a 'new settlement, a 'new city I mean.
There 'are places on Earth that people could 'attempt such an endeavor I assume.

Funding wouldn't be 'too difficult I'd think.
What with the internet of connectiveness, and crowd funding ideas.

I'd also find it easier to swallow if there 'was a social contract that people knowingly signed to, rather than altering existing structures.
Though I 'think I vaguely recall communists saying something about communism requiring an existing structure to 'work.
But maybe this is a mischaracterization of your idea.

11 days later

#311
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@secularmerlin
UBI is a nonsensical idea.

It sounds good immediately until you start thinking about the implications. 

It implies all work is equal and as valuable as any other kind of work.   Is it it true to say that the checkout boy at the supermarket working 9-5 is equal in quality and value as the surgeon working on people's lives at all hours of the day?  Their individual lives may well be equal, but their contribution to society is not. 

If UBI is simply a minimum wage for every person - then it is not income.  It is simply a pension. 

 
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@Timid8967
Work has nothing to so with UBI. It is a SEPERATE issue. In fact it only implies that all people are equal not that all work is equal but it doesn't really matter since our current system does not prioritize surgeons, teachers, firefighters or farmers. 
#313
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@secularmerlin
Income tax is a good chunk of the money the government works from. You don't view the priorities as difference in pay?
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@secularmerlin
Work has nothing to so with UBI. 
That's the most rational thing you've ever said. You're right, UBI has nothing whatsoever to do with work. In fact, it replaces it and its value entirely.