No blessing for same sex marriages.

Author: Stephen

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Just about an hour ago the Catholic Church decreed there would be no blessing for same sex marriages. 

 saying :  "ruling that partnerships between homosexuals are “not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...


While the decree said " the Christian community and its Pastors must welcome with respect and sensitivity persons with homosexual inclinations" , the unions cannot be blessed.



The ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq.   Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of Abraham)  attended a meeting in the wilderness with the  powerful, Shiite Muslim  religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.  God only knows what they had  to discuss out there in the desert but I am reminded  of the pointless biblical story of god  via "the spirit" sending Jesus - his son-  into the desert to be tempted and propositioned and to come to some kind of agreement- that failed by all accounts.. 

Who knows what they discussed, there were only two present at the time, is all we have of the account is some made up nonsense where Jesus prevails, well he would wouldn't he? 
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@Stephen


Stephen,

YOUR HYPOCRITICAL QUOTE BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: "While the decree said " the Christian community and its Pastors must welcome with respect and sensitivity persons with homosexual inclinations" , the unions cannot be blessed."

BULLSHIT!  The Hellbound Catholic Church is directly going against Jesus' true words within the scriptures as explicitly shown below by accommodating the homosexuals with respect to begin with, what's new? NOTHING!

"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)

"For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, Leaving the natural use of the woman, Burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, And receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. . . who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death."   (Romans 1:26-27)


How can Jesus' inspired words say the above that homos should be MURDERED and are worthy of DEATH, and that the Catholic Church at the same time proffers that they are to show respect to ungodly people that practice homosexual sex and same sex marriage?!   Can the Church spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E? Sure they can!


As if the pedophile Priests buggering innocent little children, and the cover up of same by the Catholic Church for years wasn't enough, then the Church becomes HYPOCRITICAL to the true words of Jesus as shown in the passages above towards the ungodly gay faction!  Who wants to be a member of the HYPOCRITICAL and outright embarrassing Catholic Catholic Church, raise your hands! LOL!  BLASPHEME!

Stephen, watch the known Catholic followers at this forum RUN from your thread and our godly posts, just watch! 


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Polytheist-Witch
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They don't technically bless divorced couples  who remarry. Fortunately you don't need the church to have a legal marriage. 
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I found it interesting the article said the Holy See says "God does not AND CANNOT bless sin."

Is that one of those things that is beyond God's power? Is it possible for God to redefine what qualifies as a sin?
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@BrotherDThomas
Stephen,

YOUR HYPOCRITICAL QUOTE BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH: "While the decree said " the Christian community and its Pastors must welcome with respect and sensitivity persons with homosexual inclinations" , the unions cannot be blessed."

Yes the churches quote, brother.

BULLSHIT!  The Hellbound Catholic Church is directly going against Jesus' true words within the scriptures as explicitly shown below by accommodating the homosexuals with respect to begin with, what's new? NOTHING!

"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
Yes, the churches hypocrisy stands out a mile.  Your head must be spinning , Brother.  So , going by this hypocritical standard we may as well tear up the Old Testament.  After all, if they church wishes to disregard one part of the Old Testament, we may as well discard the lot. 



"For this cause God gave them up into vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, Leaving the natural use of the woman, Burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, And receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. . . who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death."   (Romans 1:26-27)

And tear up the New Testament too for the same reasons.


How can Jesus' inspired words say the above that homos should be MURDERED and are worthy of DEATH, and that the Catholic Church at the same time proffers that they are to show respect to ungodly people that practice homosexual sex and same sex marriage?!   Can the Church spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E? Sure they can!


I am sure some Christian will be along shortly to tell us that the Pope "doesn't understand Greek" and is taking those biblical  anti homosexuality verses that you have highlighted  "out of context". Tick, tock, tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock......






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@ludofl3x
The document went on to say that “God does not and cannot bless sin”, adding: “He blesses sinful man, so that he may recognise that he is part of his plan of love and allow him to be changed by him.”https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/15/catholic-church-cannot-bless-same-sex-unions-vatican-decrees

ludofl3x, wrote: I found it interesting the article said the Holy See says "God does not AND CANNOT bless sin."

That will be religious double speak. We can read clearly in Leviticus that the lord says homosexuality is abhorrent and an "abomination" . 

"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)

So from that we can clearly see that god finds homosexuals AND homosexuality to be an abomination.


But you may have heard most Christians on this forum try to back peddle on this issue by telling us that god is not anti homosexual but is anti homosexual "acts and practices", while ignoring the fact that homosexuals - according to scripture - and everything else in the universe were created by him/god. To this charge the Christian will proclaim that - "god didn't create anything bad or evil", but again scripture itself contradicts this;   Isaiah 45:7 being just one example :

" I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" . Isaiah 45:7 King James Version


Is that one of those things that is beyond God's power? Is it possible for God to redefine what qualifies as a sin?

That is a good question and it appears that god - according to Paul - does move the goal posts....  when it suites him of course.  i.e one can get to heaven without believing in Jesus!  Yes ,ludofl3x,  they kept that little gem quiet haven't they.  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5635-no-one-comes-to-the-father-except

But as I explained above. I am sure that there will be the  christian student of ancient languages that will be along shortly to inform us all that the Pope doesn't understand these verses in their original ancient Greek and has taken them out of "context", but on request to put them into context for us - and the Pope - will fail immediately.

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@Stephen
An in wilderness, Tales From Arabia inter-club meeting...A bit like a Scout Jamboree as it were.

And a bit of how's your father however you fancy it, and a bit of form filling, and chanting and singing and dancing and getting drunk and bit more how's your father if you're not too bladdered.

And wake up with a sore head....Look at the drooling mess lay next to you...And feel slightly anxious.

And once you've recovered sufficiently, that instinctive urge kicks in again and it's more how's your father, any which way you fancy, followed by post coital anxiety and indifference.....And so on.

And get a puppy, or adopt if you're financially secure enough.

And the Tales from Arabia inter-club jamboree was in the wilderness, where ever that might have been.

What it is to be human.


Maybe hunter gathering was actually more fulfilling. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
They don't technically bless divorced couples  who remarry. Fortunately you don't need the church to have a legal marriage. 

We don't need the church for anything at all, Witch.

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@Stephen



.

Stephen,

WAIT!  Where are the Hell bound Catholic pseudo-christians within this forum that usually come forth on other Christian topics with zest and fortitude?  Looks like they are HIDING regarding your topic and thread to save themselves from even more embarrassment about being a Catholic in the 20th Century.  Don't they realize that Jesus said for them to defend His faith at all costs?  "He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)

One reason in not being a Catholic, Roman or not, is the fact that you don't have to sheepishly RUN AWAY from your faith all the time when situations like this come up at the Catholics severe and embarrassing expense!   

Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, Catholics, where are you .....................................   LOL!



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@BrotherDThomas
Where are the Hell bound Catholic pseudo-christians within this forum that usually come forth on other Christian topics with zest and fortitude?

Ye of little faith , Brother.   Give them a chance. They maybe dusting off  ancient Greek parchments as we speak looking for another translation to justify this Papal document.


The document went on to say that “God does not and cannot bless sin”, adding: “He blesses sinful man, so that he may recognise that he is part of his plan of love and allow him to be changed by him.”https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/15/catholic-church-cannot-bless-same-sex-unions-vatican-decrees

Interesting it is Brother that the Pope tells us  "he blessed the sinful man" while Leviticus tells us this particular kind of "sinful man" should be put to death.

"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death,; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)
 
It maybe the case that the words " shall surely be put to death" in the ancient Greek language actually mean "he blessed the sin full man for his "homosexual abhorrent practices".?
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@PGA2.0



Stephen,

YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: "It maybe the case that the words " shall surely be put to death" in the ancient Greek language actually mean "he blessed the sin full man for his "homosexual abhorrent practices".?"

As the ONLY true Christian upon this forum, I have to accept that Jesus spoke HEBREW, and not Aramaic or Keone Greek since He was the King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37), and was sent for the Jews ONLY (Matthew 15:24) ,therefore ANY, and I repeat, ANY convenient translation away from Hebrew is not coming from Jesus' mouth, but can be insidiously "interpreted" to suit one's needs, period!  

PGA2.0 is about to be easily schooled upon this topic, as he was before on many other topics that I directed to him that he RAN AWAY from, that is, if he can actually spell words correctly, not run away from my posts directed to him as shown below, and have at least a 4th grade level of understanding as also shown in the link below:

As with the Satanic apologists like PGA2.0, the JUDEO, I repeat, the JUDEO-Christian Bible is written for the followers of Jesus being a JEW GOD ONLY, and they are known as CHRISTIANS that have to be fellow jews as well.  BUT, when was the last time any of the Bible inept pseudo-christians within this forum has told you what sect of Judaism they follow?  They remain fools once again by slapping Jesus in the face!



.




#12
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@Stephen
Just about an hour ago the Catholic Church decreed there would be no blessing for same sex marriages. 

 saying :  "ruling that partnerships between homosexuals are “not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...


I don't think anyone was surprised by this. 
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@coal
Just about an hour ago the Catholic Church decreed there would be no blessing for same sex marriages. 

 saying :  "ruling that partnerships between homosexuals are “not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...


I don't think anyone was surprised by this. 

Well the Pope said as much as he could without actually quoting Leviticus 20:13 , & Romans 1:26-27, didn't he?  He wouldn't want to show the "homosexual community" the words of god to be anti homosexual in any way, now would he? 

The Pope wouldn't want to point out that the homosexual  "iniquities"  going on in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah was just too much for him to bare so wiped those cities from  the face of the planet saving only one righteous man and his family.

Genesis 18: 20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”


Genesis 19: 24 Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land.

He wouldn't want to point out that maybe in the eyes of god and the church the world is being turned into a new Sodom and Gomorrah ? Who knows, this may all be yet another of  gods new plans, of yet another new covenant concerning "the great reset" that all western leaders are ramming down our throats.?


It is the more interesting that he ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq.   Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of Sodom and Gomorrah, of Abraham and Lot)  attended a meeting in the wilderness with the  powerful, Shiite Muslim  religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. 

We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment .


  God only knows what they had  to discuss out there in the desert land where  those cities of "iniquity" once stood..
  


22 days later

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@Stephen
The Pope was right. It goes against every bit of common sense that men marry men. But it shows the Pope is compassionate because we should help these people help themselves so that they can become normal again.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Whether or not a marriage is legal it doesn't make it right because only a marriage sanctioned by the church is recognized by God.
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@Mandrakel
But it shows the Pope is compassionate because we should help these people help themselves so that they can become normal again.

 The Pope in typical Christian fashion also shown that the biblical goal posts can be moved any time the church feels like moving them. Not to mention moving what god himself has commanded. But I suppose he has to keep the "homosexual community" onside, doesn't he? 

Did god show any compassion when he decided to wipe Sodom and Gomorrah of the map?

I found it more interesting that the Popes ruling comes just days after the Popes return from visit to Iraq.   Pope Francis, is the first sitting pope to visit Iraq (the land of those iniquitous cities of  Sodom and Gomorrah, of Abraham and Lot)  attended a meeting in the wilderness with the  powerful, Shiite Muslim  religious cleric Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. 

We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment . The punishment is the same in the bible, isn't it?

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@Stephen
We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment . The punishment is the same in the bible, isn't it?
Punishments change with the times but the crime doesn't. And, as we all know, the Muslims only copied what is true in the Bible. 

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@Mandrakel

 The Pope in typical Christian fashion also shown that the biblical goal posts can be moved any time the church feels like moving them. Not to mention moving what god himself has commanded. But I suppose he has to keep the "homosexual community" onside, doesn't he? We all know the feeling towards homosexuality in the Muslim world and the punishment . The punishment is the same in the bible, isn't it?

Punishments change with the times but the crime doesn't.


I agree, but we are talking the unchangeable and unalterable word of god and his commandments aren't we?  I refer to verses such as  :



 Deuteronomy 4:2ESV -    "You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you".

And the punishment commanded for homosexuality is death , as much as Christians just love to play word games with the verse that commands this penalty.

Revelation  - "if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book".

So it appears as I have pointed out, that the church can move the goal post when ever it feels like moving them.



But it shows the Pope is compassionate

 I think he was being more diplomatic and politically correct and his comments had nothing to do with his "compassion". He was playing both sides of the fence. He chose his words carefully saying  that homosexuality was  " not ordered to the Creator’s plan.”...  while not going so far as to say  homosexuality is "abhorrent and an abomination to god", and never once mentioned the punishment commanded in the bible or by Allah. Leviticus 20:13>> " If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." <<< see that, not a word of about showing through compassion in the hope of  rehabilitation. No, gods commands are crystal clear cut- he demands nothing short of "death".

This is  the rod that Christians  made for their own backs when they adopted a god from a time and culture they understood absolutely nothing about.  These kind of 21st century social changes have, and will,keep popping up and Christians will make excuses for their gods commandment  to the point of denying or even lying about what it is the bible actually does say and what god actually commands, hence the word play Christians use when discussing the punishment for homosexuality.

And, as we all know, the Muslims only copied what is true in the Bible. 

They did in part as they did the Torah. But as for them "only copying what is true"   can be argued until the day that I ride my next unicorn. 

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@Stephen
They did in part as they did the Torah. But as for them "only copying what is true"   can be argued until the day that I ride my next unicorn. 
Quite true.
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@Mandrakel
If you're not a Christian who cares if the church cares. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
If you're not a Christian who cares if the church cares. 
I suppose anyone should care to a certain extent since Christianity still wields substantial influence. There is nothing worse than sticking your head in the sand.

#22
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@Mandrakel
My head isn't in the sand. No church is required to marry anyone. Period. This changes nothing the church hasn't been doing for centuries. If you don't like their policy leave the church and quit giving them money. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
My head isn't in the sand. No church is required to marry anyone. Period.
I think this is where we get into contentiousness and we have seen this happen with civil marriages where a woman registrar was jailed for refusing to issue a marriage licence to a gay couple. Churches are not above the law and if they are going to conduct marriages then they should conduct them for all those who are legally entitled or not at all.

#24
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@Mandrakel
All marriages are civil. That is why divorces happen in civil court. A registrar would work for the state right? No one authorized to do marriages has to marry anyone. Not even judges.  
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@Polytheist-Witch
No one authorized to do marriages has to marry anyone. Not even judges.  
Yes they do as we all know from the Kim Davies case. If you want to get technical about it, you can't drag the woman to the alter and force a pen into her hand to marry a gay couple but she did bare the consequences of her (non) actions...she was shoved in the slammer.

#26
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@Mandrakel
She refused to issue a license, totally different. You can get a certificate to marry people and decide you don't want to marry certain individuals. No pastor has to marry church members. A judge can pass on a marriage if they parties have appeared in front of him for other things and go to another judge. There are lists of people who are legally certified to marry people in a state. None have to marry specific couples.  A county has to issue a license though. It's a legal document. 
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@Polytheist-Witch
She refused to issue a license, totally different. You can get a certificate to marry people and decide you don't want to marry certain individuals. No pastor has to marry church members. A judge can pass on a marriage if they parties have appeared in front of him for other things and go to another judge. There are lists of people who are legally certified to marry people in a state. None have to marry specific couples.  A county has to issue a license though. It's a legal document. 
Point taken.....you are quite right.
I'm not familiar with US jurisdictions but would not a judge or a pastor be guilty of violating vilification of minorities laws for refusing or passing on a marriage? Or are we getting into gay wedding cake territory here which, as I understand, has not been completely resolved.

#28
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@Mandrakel
I'm not familiar with US jurisdictions but would not a judge or a pastor be guilty of violating vilification of minorities laws for refusing or passing on a marriage? Or are we getting into gay wedding cake territory here which, as I understand, has not been completely resolved.

It depends. If the judge is not free the day they want to or they have experience with the people they can pass to another judge. In a small community with one judge a refusal might be different.  Pastors can flat out say no or require classes be taken or counseling be done.  People may want a church wedding but they don't attend a church so it can get tricky. But there are usually enough choices you can find someone to sign the license.  If you couldn't find someone and all the judges said no you would have a case with the judges not those outside the state options. 

Edit to add: personally I think the ceremony is bs and should be something one does on the side. Business partners don't have to do one, I don't have to do one with the bank to open a checking or get a car loan.  It's a civil contract. You both sign a paper in front of a notary and boom, married. 
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@Stephen
The pope is somehow a little bit confused.  Yet what do you expect for a 90 year old man? 

Has he been smoking something? 

But who cares really? The Catholic church only recognises its own church anyway. Every other government is illegitimate. 

We should simply declare the catholic church illegitimate. 

That would solve all of the problems - put all priests into prison for being illegal. 
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@Timid8967
The pope is somehow a little bit confused.

 Nope. The Pope knew exactly what he was saying without mentioning the punishment. He had been recently in "discussions" with Muslims not long before he chose to make this comment and we all know what they think about homosexuals and homosexuality and the punishment for it in Islam.