Is Kamala Harris the best vice president in history?

Author: RationalMadman

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oromagi
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@bmdrocks21
Go on. What has she done that you think energizes the base and attracts moderates?
Most prominently, Harris broke the tie which saved  the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 which 68% of Independent voters support.  The same poll had Independents giving Harris an improving 39%  approval vs a declining 23% approval for Republicans in Congress.
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@oromagi
That's false. 

Chuck Schumer has has the lead on national weed reform and has promised to submit a bill (over Biden's objections) before 4/20/22 (Schumer considers the bill popular with the people  but hard to pass so I suppose he wants it as close to mid-terms as he can get).  He may need Harris's tie-breaker and Biden won't commit to signing so Harris may face a difficult choice.

So nothing other than an unenforceable promise by Chuck Schumer has been made. Has she made an official promise since gaining office that she would vote for legalization in the Senate?

And, if it is objected to by Biden, I  highly doubt she will defy the president on the matter. Especially based on her flip-flop on Medicare for All in an interview when she was asked about whether she would still fight for it after being chosen as his VP. (Response being a cringe-y laugh and a no).

That's false.

NAACP: "The NAACP has been calling for a ban on menthol cigarettes and flavored e-cigarettes for years now, and we applaud the FDA’s latest plan to do just that. It’s about time we prioritize the health and well-being of African Americans."

That's not false. The NAACP might like the move, but that doesn't mean that black voters like the move. From a policy standpoint, it is a good policy that I could see the NAACP liking. However, if you ban a product that many black voters enjoy, then you are probably not winning them over.

Just like if you banned flavored alcohol- do you expect that to make voters happy or angry?
Probably angry. You won't win many points from non-smokers (banning cigarettes isn't an issue that gets people out to vote) and you will lose points from smokers who now have to smoke cigarettes that taste like pure tar.
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@oromagi
Most prominently, Harris broke the tie which saved  the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021 which 68% of Independent voters support.  The same poll had Independents giving Harris an improving 39%  approval vs a declining 23% approval for Republicans in Congress.

That's a fair point.
There will be dozens of incidents that she will be in charge of from now until 2024, which she will fall on both sides of in terms of popularity. If 68% like one policy from 2021, I don't know if that'll bring people out. I'm sure the recency bias will kick in and everyone will forget about the stimulus and mishandling of the border crisis (assuming that is under control by then). Plus, just because 68% support something doesn't necessarily mean they support it a lot.

Likely, a lot of what she will get roasted for won't even be things she did. More or less going to be anything Biden did wrong, she will get blamed for and vice versa. That will determine if she gets the 2024 nomination.
zedvictor4
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@bmdrocks21
Well;  you referred specifically to weed and cigarette issues.

Certainly in the UK.....  Neither Liberal, Moderate nor Conservative, would rely upon advocates of these causes as base support.....I would imagine that the US is the pretty similar.

I would suggest that there are bigger issues, that are more definitive of the base...... Health, welfare, housing, education etc.

And how many weed smokers are likely to turn out Republican?
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@bmdrocks21
So nothing other than an unenforceable promise by Chuck Schumer has been made.
You said "no moves."  Corey Booker has written the bill and they are waiting for the optimal moment to submit so that is not "no moves."

Has she made an official promise since gaining office that she would vote for legalization in the Senate?
Harris authored the last attempt at Federal legalization in 2019 but she doesn't want to undermine Uncle Joe (another reason for tactical delay).  Like I said, it may prove to be a defining moment for her.

The NAACP might like the move, but that doesn't mean that black voters like the move.

Well, the black vote is not monolithic but I don't think any institution represents the constituency more comprehensively than the NAACP. 

From a policy standpoint, it is a good policy that I could see the NAACP liking. However, if you ban a product that many black voters enjoy, then you are probably not winning them over.
Just like if you banned flavored alcohol- do you expect that to make voters happy or angry?  Probably angry. You won't win many points from non-smokers (banning cigarettes isn't an issue that gets people out to vote) and you will lose points from smokers who now have to smoke cigarettes that taste like pure tar.

As a former smoker who voted for every tax increase on tobacco that came along, I think the psychology of addiction may be more complicated than you suppose.  Still, I think your point is worthy from an electoral stand point.  The ALCU argues that now is not the time to give cops another reason to target black people and Al Sharpton points out the hypocrisy of legalizing weed once it is popular with white people while criminalizing tobacco products popular with the black community.  The CDC says such a ban could save 45,000 lives a year but black smokers already smoke less than white smokers and nevertheless die from smoking at higher rates, demonstrating that quality of healthcare and lifestyle are probably way more significant than menthol vs non-menthol.  Even so, I can't see Sharpton voting Republican anytime soon.

Personally, I'm a fan of politicians who act on some principle beyond the next election.


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@zedvictor4
And how many weed smokers are likely to turn out Republican
A decent amount of young Republicans are much more moderate on weed issues. They like weed, guns, are pro-life, etc. Essentially somewhat libertarian but don't want to throw their vote away

I would suggest that there are bigger issues, that are more definitive of the base...... Health, welfare, housing, education etc.

I agree those are much bigger issues. We are only 100 days in, so it is hard to determine how things'll turn out on that end. But as of right now, I haven't seen more than talk about a lot of those issues.

Time is dwindling until the midterms when, historically speaking, the margins generally move further out of the favor of the current president. 
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@bmdrocks21
That's a fair point.

I think Biden should be proceeding as if he is past his expiration date because statistically he is.  That means taking the unpopular moves onto his reputation while burnishing Harris with the popular shit (that's assuming that BIden likes Harris for 2024 which may be quite presumptious).  To that end, giving Harris the lead on infrastructure is a good move but giving Harris border policy oversight was a mistake.

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We should just ban all cigarettes imo. They’re harmful to the individual and bystanders. Not to mention they smell disgusting. I despise smokers with a burning passion.

Glad you recovered from nicotine addiction Oro!
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@bmdrocks21
Yep same here.

People expect instant results, and that's never going to happen.....Republican or Democrat....Conservative or Labour.

Expectations are, and magic wands are not.
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@oromagi
You said "no moves."  Corey Booker has written the bill and they are waiting for the optimal moment to submit so that is not "no moves."

Ok, I see. Trying to use weed legalization as their metaphorical carrot on the stick for the midterms. I guess that to some degree counts as a move.

Well, the black vote is not monolithic but I don't think any institution represents the constituency more comprehensively than the NAACP. 

As a former smoker who voted for every tax increase on tobacco that came along, I think the psychology of addiction may be more complicated than you suppose.  Still, I think your point is worthy from an electoral stand point.  The ALCU argues that now is not the time to give cops another reason to target black people and Al Sharpton points out the hypocrisy of legalizing weed once it is popular with white people while criminalizing tobacco products popular with the black community.  The CDC says such a ban could save 45,000 lives a year but black smokers already smoke less than white smokers and nevertheless die from smoking at higher rates, demonstrating that quality of healthcare and lifestyle are probably way more significant than menthol vs non-menthol.  Even so, I can't see Sharpton voting Republican anytime soon.
Yes, I certainly don't think it will turn anyone into Republicans. This is just the kind of typical discouragement that keeps people home during election-time. Nobody is likely to switch parties in order to get mint-flavored cigarettes back.

I definitely support the ban because it will save people. I support tobacco taxes as well (although I do complain about the cost of my ~1 cigar per quarter). I can see there being a vast increase in illegal menthol sales and related incarceration (or fines. I didn't look at the punishment for the sales yet), which won't be a good look.

The NAACP is generally pretty representative of the black vote, but I think in this case, it is just an example of an unpopular policy that stands to do a lot of good. It would be nice if more unpopular, principled positions would be taken, but they aren't for a reason. Do enough unpopular things and your enemies get elected, and they will do much worse things for the communities you wish to help.

I think Biden should be proceeding as if he is past his expiration date because statistically he is.  That means taking the unpopular moves onto his reputation while burnishing Harris with the popular shit (that's assuming that BIden likes Harris for 2024 which may be quite presumptious).  To that end, giving Harris the lead on infrastructure is a good move but giving Harris border policy oversight was a mistake.

I definitely agree. Since he is projected to not run again, the VP and President roles should be reversed. Normally the VP needs to take the heat for everything. Since the border policy is not as big of a concern for democrats, I don't see that issue in particular hurting her chances for reelection unless it is horrendously botched (which it may be, based on the current state of the border)
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@ILikePie5
Trump loves smokers, all his 'friends' were pro-smoking, most still are. It's the right wing that buried health research for decades to indirectly manslaughter millions.
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@RationalMadman
Trump loves smokers, all his 'friends' were pro-smoking, most still are. It's the right wing that buried health research for decades to indirectly manslaughter millions.
Everyone knows smoking is bad for you but no one wants to ban it. It’ll literally be Prohibition 2.0.
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@ILikePie5
They didn't know nearly how bad it was until the 1990s because of what the Right Wing did to cover it up and make it 'cool'.
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@ILikePie5
Everyone knows smoking is bad for you but no one wants to ban it. It’ll literally be Prohibition 2.0.
That's what Covid is for. To get rid of smokers and fatties. Who needs Kamala for that?
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@Greyparrot
That's what Covid is for. To get rid of smokers and fatties. Who needs Kamala for that?
🤫🤫🤫🤡
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@zedvictor4
lol no