Proving god is a lie

Author: Timid8967

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Yassine
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@Timid8967
There is no need to be patronizing. 
- On the contrary.

A syllogism's premise to conclude a 100% response requires an all.    I could say some men are mortal and that too would be true. Yet, that could only lead me to conclude that perhaps Socrates is mortal.  And even with that I could be 100% confident that might be mortal, but I want to know that he is mortal. And therefore I need an all.  
Your suggestion of martians however was not based on anything of reasonable confidence. It was created by you to try and refute my logic. Yet you did not achieve what you wanted because you were unable to do more than try and compare apples with oranges.  You needed to provide an example to allow you to compare apples with apples. 
- You postulate that "all martians are immortal" is obviously a false statement. The negation of a false statement is of course a true statement, following the law of excluded middle. Let me ask you then, what is the negation of "all martians are immortal"? It is of course "some martians are immortal", which according to what you postulate must be a true statement; but is it though? Something to think about.

Your suggestion about me attending a logic class is like water of a ducks back because it is you who appears to have a problem with understanding logic. But that is ok.
- You are entitled to be wrong, of course.

If you are a teachable person and humble then perhaps your god or someone's god will enable you to learn some logic.
- Sometimes we inquire when we don't know. There is no fault in that. If you went & did your research instead of rebutting me we wouldn't be here arguing.


zedvictor4
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@Yassine
Anyway it's refreshing....You that is.

And we're only here to argue.

Agreement is nice, but not as entertaining.

So where do you originate from, as your English is too good. 
Yassine
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@zedvictor4
Anyway it's refreshing....You that is.

And we're only here to argue.
- Here too. Let's get arguing. What do you have?

Agreement is nice, but not as entertaining.
- Agreement is boring before the arguing, but very entertaining after.

So where do you originate from, as your English is too good. 
- My wife is American, that's probably why.


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@Yassine
So wherefrom did you originate?

Are you avoiding the question?
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@zedvictor4
- I am an Arab Muslim.
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@Yassine
Ok.
 
So based upon World geography, you have an acquired sense of race and difference, and an acquired data base....Same as us all I suppose.

And  you're from in or around the Arabian Peninsular which encompasses various States depending upon where one chooses to draw a line.

And you choose to label with the name of the divergent Abrahamic sect known as Islam.

Do you also sub-label in respect of a schismatic branch of Islam? 



I personally prefer the label realist, and attempt to be as realistic as is achievable....So obviously this negates a dependency on believe or faith in the unknowable.

I therefore see no intellectual value in naive 2000 year old creation hypotheses. Though there is obviously a sketchy historical record that can be appreciated.



For me GOD is the principle that gives purpose to everything, and popular religions are just old and out dated explanations of this.

Did a bloke chat with a GOD up a mountain?

And notwithstanding the chiselling logistics...You would at least expect GOD to provide at least a few paper copies.



And then an unspecified number of years later along came other blokes who decided to do things slightly differently.

And ever since then, other blokes (and women when allowed) came along, and again thought that doing things slightly differently would be better.

Such is the generational transfer of data and the slow modification thereof.



So GOD is never a lie.

God is variously an interpretation of that which is unknowable.

And ritualistic add-ons, are just some examples of the whacky things that hominids do to pass the time of day.



So go for it.

I prefer cycling and gardening.

And within the next 30 years I expect to die and be returned to the component parts of the Universe.

And I also expect, that this is what will eventually happen to you.



But who knows?

Certainly not you or I.
Yassine
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@zedvictor4
Ok.
 
So based upon World geography, you have an acquired sense of race and difference, and an acquired data base....Same as us all I suppose.

And  you're from in or around the Arabian Peninsular which encompasses various States depending upon where one chooses to draw a line.

And you choose to label with the name of the divergent Abrahamic sect known as Islam.

Do you also sub-label in respect of a schismatic branch of Islam? 
- I follow the Maliki school of jurisprudence, the Ash'ari school of theology & the Junaidi school of mysticism (sufism).

I personally prefer the label realist, and attempt to be as realistic as is achievable....So obviously this negates a dependency on believe or faith in the unknowable.
I therefore see no intellectual value in naive 2000 year old creation hypotheses. Though there is obviously a sketchy historical record that can be appreciated.
- I see nothing to respond to here. Opinions...

For me GOD is the principle that gives purpose to everything, and popular religions are just old and out dated explanations of this.
- But you have better explanations...?

Did a bloke chat with a GOD up a mountain?
And notwithstanding the chiselling logistics...You would at least expect GOD to provide at least a few paper copies.
- The weight of statements rests on their support, not on their 'wording'...

And then an unspecified number of years later along came other blokes who decided to do things slightly differently.
And ever since then, other blokes (and women when allowed) came along, and again thought that doing things slightly differently would be better.
Such is the generational transfer of data and the slow modification thereof.
- Humans are arrogant, they easily become fanatics. 

So GOD is never a lie.
God is variously an interpretation of that which is unknowable.
And ritualistic add-ons, are just some examples of the whacky things that hominids do to pass the time of day.

So go for it.

I prefer cycling and gardening.

And within the next 30 years I expect to die and be returned to the component parts of the Universe.

And I also expect, that this is what will eventually happen to you.

But who knows?

Certainly not you or I.
- You're making a lot of claims... maybe you wanna defend one of them in a debate?


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@Yassine
Well......Starting at the end and working backwards.

1. Popular Religions are huge claims..... And ultimately cannot be defended....You cannot prove the existence of a specific GOD.

2. For sure, people are easily programmed to be fanatical and more or less arrogant.

3. The weight of support rests upon social programming..... Social programming does not validate wording though.

4a. To assume to know the unknowable is arrogant....But magical blokes is a fantasy explanation, in the absence of knowledge....Doesn't matter how you dress it up.

5. Everything is an opinion....Or more precisely, subject to an individual data management process.

6. You follow, and I currently follow the Tour de France...Data input, process, store and variously output.



4b. And I cannot explain the unknowable....A GOD principle explains a universal purpose....Though everything might be pure chance.

Though there is the option of a chanceful and successive GOD principle....An idea that I find interesting.



Nonetheless, to prove any such hypothesis, one must first overcome the something from noting obstacle.

And the same applies to theistic hypotheses....To simply ignore is arrogant.
Yassine
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@zedvictor4

1. Popular Religions are huge claims..... And ultimately cannot be defended....You cannot prove the existence of a specific GOD.
- Of course you can. Religion =/= Christianity.

2. For sure, people are easily programmed to be fanatical and more or less arrogant.
- Thus make partners with God to worship.

3. The weight of support rests upon social programming..... Social programming does not validate wording though.
- Wut? You made assertions, you need to at least provide some support.

4a. To assume to know the unknowable is arrogant....But magical blokes is a fantasy explanation, in the absence of knowledge....Doesn't matter how you dress it up.
- That itself is an assumption. To assume it is unknowable. If you know that it's unknowable, how do you know it's unknowable? Self-defeating. 

5. Everything is an opinion....Or more precisely, subject to an individual data management process.
- What is? Is a cup an opinion too?

6. You follow, and I currently follow the Tour de France...Data input, process, store and variously output.
- Hm...

4b. And I cannot explain the unknowable....A GOD principle explains a universal purpose....Though everything might be pure chance.
- You mean you can not explain the unexplainable? Yes, indeed.

Though there is the option of a chanceful and successive GOD principle....An idea that I find interesting.
- Is this English?

Nonetheless, to prove any such hypothesis, one must first overcome the something from noting obstacle.
And the same applies to theistic hypotheses....To simply ignore is arrogant.
- Which hypotheses? 

zedvictor4
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@Yassine
1. Of course you can what?.....Your Ebuccian equation proves zero.

2."Thus make partners" etc....Religious speak....This proves zero.

3. I asserted nothing...I made an observation.....Can you invalidate my observation?

4a. No just another observation....Can you actually invalidate my observation?

5. A cup is a cup......Though perception and data management allows you to come to this conclusion.

6.Hm....

4b....In terms of everything, unexplainable is therefore unknowable. Yes indeed.

Yes...All my best English

Hypotheses that suggest a reason for the unknowable....Or unexplainable, depending upon how one chooses to split hairs.
Yassine
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@zedvictor4
1. Of course you can what?.....Your Ebuccian equation proves zero.
- You can prove the existence of a specific understanding of God & establish the claims of a specific religion. Christianity =/= religion. Christianity likely has the weakest foundation among the world's great religions.

2."Thus make partners" etc....Religious speak....This proves zero.
- You're stating things, I'm doing the same. Or do you imagine your statements granted just because you utter them...?

3. I asserted nothing...I made an observation.....Can you invalidate my observation?
- Observations relate to senses, to which your assertions don't. So, less claims, more proofs.

4a. No just another observation....Can you actually invalidate my observation?
- You did that all on your own, by negating your own premise. 

5. A cup is a cup......Though perception and data management allows you to come to this conclusion.
- Another "observation" I'm guessing?

4b....In terms of everything, unexplainable is therefore unknowable. Yes indeed.
- Ah, yeah... no. Knowledge is intransitive, explanation is transitive. I can know "fire", without having to explain "fire".

Yes...All my best English
- Damn...

Hypotheses that suggest a reason for the unknowable....Or unexplainable, depending upon how one chooses to split hairs.
- That's a contradiction. Unexplainable means there is no reason for it, if there was it is not unexplainable.


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@Yassine
1. One assumes that GOD is the foundation of all popular Abrahamic religions....Or are you saying that there is more than one.

2. Stating things is what we do.

3. Everything relates to senses...Data in, data processing, data storage, data modification and data out.....Otherwise zero.

4a. So you can't then.

5. What isn't?....See 3.

6. See 3.

7. Nice English

8. There is more than one way to define unexplainable. See explain.....Though unexplainable was your choice.
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@zedvictor4
1. One assumes that GOD is the foundation of all popular Abrahamic religions....Or are you saying that there is more than one.
- To be expected, people in the West & the misconception of: Christianity = religion, & the Christian God = every other God. We don't believe the contradiction that is Trinity in Islam.

2. Stating things is what we do.
- We can debate things instead. What do you wish to debate?

3. Everything relates to senses...Data in, data processing, data storage, data modification and data out.....Otherwise zero.
- No. This very sentence you just uttered does not originate in senses. If I understand you right, you imagine everything you think to be an "observation"? Wow! Is this a new religion or something?

4a. So you can't then.
- I can endorse your invalidation...

5. What isn't?....See 3.
- I just thought of a name for your beliefs: Observationationism. 

6. See 3.
- You should adopt Solipsism, right up your alley. 

7. Nice English
- Very nice indeed.

8. There is more than one way to define unexplainable. See explain.....Though unexplainable was your choice.
- Not in the context, which was a metaphysical premise.