Author: Timid8967 ,

Posts

Total: 61
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @fauxlaw
With respect fauxlaw, I was not ridiculing the Lord's supper - just the manner in which some purport to conduct it in order to appease their own sentimentalities or superstitions. 

Having said that,  I have not before heard of water being used rather than wine or grapejuice.  Honestly, I think that not only destroys the symbol, but reduces it to something completely different to what is represents.  But hey - it is your church.  

Why water by the way? how does that represent Jesus' blood - in the new covenant? 
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 4,237
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
--> @Timid8967
Why water by the way? how does that represent Jesus' blood - in the new covenant? 
I mean, there is the saying "it's the thought that counts". For a being that has knowledge of all your thoughts that would seem to be more relevant than ever.
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 64
Posts: 3,385
4
6
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
6
10
--> @Timid8967
Water, because it is simple. What is the primary element of wine? Or, blood, for that matter? Therefore, as a symbol, it is valid. Consider that in the 1st century CE, fresh water was probably not as plentiful as wine.
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @fauxlaw
Ok. Not very convincing - but ok. 
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 64
Posts: 3,385
4
6
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
6
10
--> @Timid8967
You're not convinced?


Water content in blood, by percentage:  60% of whole blood is plasma, and 92% of that is water. Therefore, 55% of of blood is water [not counting the water content in red and white blood cells.  https://web.archive.org/web/20090305043654/http://www.fi.edu/learn/heart/blood/blood.html
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @fauxlaw
I'm not disputing the water content in grapejuice or water. That is beyond dispute. I'm talking about the usage of it to represent Jesus' blood. What possible reason would reduce the symbol to such a diluted symbol? 

Simplicity - why not in relation to the bread as well. Just go and get some grass. Or at least something not cooked.  Bread is not simple. Water is natural. Bread is not. 

Hey look it is your matter - not mine.  

What church do you belong to? 
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 750
3
2
5
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
2
5
--> @Timid8967
Timid8967,

You are just following in Jesus's footsteps, except you are turning dollars into wine.

John 2:1-11

Jesus Changes Water Into Wine
On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”
4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”
5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[b]
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.
8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”


fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 64
Posts: 3,385
4
6
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
6
10
--> @Timid8967
Bread, because Jesus declared himself "the living bread." Bread is a staple for man. Grass for cows. And for that matter, wine is not natural as you claim of bread, so, what's the difference?

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints.
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @fauxlaw
Ok. Thanks for informing me.  

Water is natural.  Bread is man made. 

Wine is man made.  Bread is man made.   Surely there ought to be consistency with the elements? 

My suggestion for grass ought to have been plain wheat or grain.  I was thinking of the natural elements.  Grass, unhelpfully, sprang to mind. 

Wine and bread

natural water and natural grain. 
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @fauxlaw
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 64
Posts: 3,385
4
6
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
6
10
--> @Timid8967
If consistency of elements is what's important to you, tell me how much of the water you drink daily is truly natural out of the tap?  Let's not spit hairs

Relative to the Priesthood I hold, it is not a matter of what I consider. I am an ordained High Priest.
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @fauxlaw
If consistency of elements is what's important to you, tell me how much of the water you drink daily is truly natural out of the tap?  Let's not spit hairs
Consistency is a matter for yourself.  Just as matter of interest - do LDS drink wine?  I receive my water from my own water tank.    But I am not purporting to a religious ceremony - that in the bible is described as bread and wine or grapejuice.  


Relative to the Priesthood I hold, it is not a matter of what I consider. I am an ordained High Priest.


Ok - so you reject the author of Hebrews that there is only one high priest, Jesus? Or are you still of the order of Aaron? 


FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 750
3
2
5
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
2
5
--> @fauxlaw
Relative to the Priesthood I hold, it is not a matter of what I consider. I am an ordained High Priest.
Did you know Lori and Chad?
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 64
Posts: 3,385
4
6
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
6
10
--> @FLRW
No, sorry to say. Don't now who they are

SupaDudz
SupaDudz's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 12,670
5
8
11
SupaDudz's avatar
SupaDudz
5
8
11
I think the drinking age of 21 is completely bogus in America. What is the difference between being mature enough to go into the military but not being able to drink but at 16, you can drive. The American system is stupid is all essence. I believe the drinking age should be 18 at it's lowest level.

I also believe there should not be a drinking age for consumption, but for purchase. If people are responsible with their drinking, it should not be illegal to consume alcohol if you are younger, but you should not be able to buy or go into bars. 
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @SupaDudz
Isn't the case that it is public policy to try to separate the drinking age from the driving age? If one reaches the same age to start both at the same time - then what is more likely to happen? Drink and Drive. And then kill yourself and others.  Either start driving earlier and start drinking later or the reverse. Help people to become responsible in one thing rather than both at the same time.  The amount of people who drink and drive is far too much. Public policy is not madness it is actually trying to help save lives - at least in this particular case. 
SupaDudz
SupaDudz's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 12,670
5
8
11
SupaDudz's avatar
SupaDudz
5
8
11
--> @Timid8967
Yes, and I agree, but 16 to 21 is stupid. You are telling me someone who joined the military at 18 can't be mature enough to drink a beer? I think that's fucking stupid
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @SupaDudz
I ain't saying anything.  

In PNG, our kids can drink alcohol if their parents give it to them. At 18 they can get in the pub. And they can drive at 15.  Military Service - I don't know. I presume 18. 
SupaDudz
SupaDudz's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 12,670
5
8
11
SupaDudz's avatar
SupaDudz
5
8
11
--> @Timid8967
I know but it's just a mannerism thing for me

21 to consume alcohol and purchase and get in pubs. 18 to join military, 16 to drive

Doesn't make sense
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @SupaDudz
It's probably an American thing. And a big government thing.  But if you want big government you have to take everything it entails. 
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,838
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
--> @Timid8967
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 


I too have some questions for the LDS 'sect'. When will you start it?
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @Stephen
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 


I too have some questions for the LDS 'sect'. When will you start it?

Thanks Stephen,

I had lost this one in the ether of having so much fun. 
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,838
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
--> @Timid8967
Given you are a member of the LDS, do you see yourself as an elder in the church? And would you see all other churches - denominations as apostate? 

I have some other questions - but perhaps it might be best if I started a new thread in the religious forum. 


I too have some questions for the LDS 'sect'. When will you start it?

Thanks Stephen,

I had lost this one in the ether of having so much fun. 

You are welcome. So lets have some more fun when you start your thread on the  LDS - Latter-day Saints in the religion forum.

Maybe we can both pose questions. 
Timid8967
Timid8967's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 350
1
2
2
Timid8967's avatar
Timid8967
1
2
2
--> @Stephen
Ok. 


Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,838
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
--> @Timid8967
Well done. I look forward to it.