PRIDE should be ASHAMED

Author: oromagi

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oromagi
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This year, NYC Pride has elected to "ban corrections and law enforcement exhibitors at NYC Pride events until 2025."  That is, police may not march in uniform.

Apparently, this is meant to be read as a critique of police performance:

"The sense of safety that law enforcement is meant to provide can instead be threatening, and at times dangerous, to those in our community who are most often targeted with excessive force and/or without reason. NYC Pride is unwilling to contribute in any way to creating an atmosphere of fear or harm for members of the community. The steps being taken by the organization challenge law enforcement to acknowledge their harm and to correct course moving forward, in hopes of making an impactful change.

"Effective immediately, NYC Pride will ban corrections and law enforcement exhibitors at NYC Pride events until 2025. At that time their participation will be reviewed by the Community Relations and Diversity, Accessibility, and Inclusion committees, as well as the Executive Board. In the meantime, NYC Pride will transition to providing increased community-based security and first responders, while simultaneously taking steps to reduce NYPD presence at events."
  • I question the honesty of any person who pretends to be traumatized or afraid of harm from police marching in a pride parade.  I am a person who has been harmed and harried by police just for being gay but I have absolutely no difficulty separating those bad cops from the manifest good of cops marching as proud queer police or marching in solidarity with the gay community.  It takes no education to understand that the cops with anti-gay agendas don't participate in pro-gay celebrations.  NYC Pride is punishing uniformed queers and allies, who deserve better than most to be proud of the difficult work they do and the nasty prejudices they overcome to do it, for the faults of uniformed homophobes who'd never recognize the honor in marching.  NYC Pride is guilty of ignorant and self-defeating prejudice at best and active harm against unpopular minorities within the gay community at worst.
  • NYC Pride commemorates a battle between the gay community and the police fought 52 years ago on the very streets of this weekend's parade route.  The fact that uniformed queers march openly at pride is a demonstration of the victory of the gay rights movement.  The fact that straight police march openly in solidarity with the gay community is another important victory.  That NYC Pride can't recognize the value and importance of such triumphs suggests that NYC Pride has dropped its eyes from the Prize.
  • NYC Pride also suggests that they intend to privatize as much of the security and public safety functions as the city will allow, at substantially increased expense.  Less security at a higher price for an obvious and frequent target of political terrorism is a dangerous price to pay for a little misbegotten virtue signaled.  Naturally, the police will still be counted on the save marchers in the event of any real emergency, which ultimately demonstrates which community is remaining more faithful to peace and harmony and which is breaking that trust.
  • I'd encourage police everywhere to tell NYC Pride to go fuck themselves with a 20 inch rainbow sparkle dildo and march anyway in full uniform, in pride and solidarity.  After all, who the hell is going to stop them?   The people who know what  it means to fight for civil rights also know how to tell good cops from bad cops and will always have the good cops' back.

RationalMadman
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Why tf would you wear your cop uniform at a gay parade? Terrible fashion sense regardless...
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@oromagi
If there are no police at the protest, how will the gay rights protestors protect themselves?  They might need the 2nd amendment.  I would love to see gay rights people also fly a "Don't tread on me" flag while carrying guns to protect from anyone that would beat them up for being gay (even though  the gays shouldn't worry about getting beat up by people).  We would start to see some bipartisanship at protests.
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@RationalMadman
Why tf would you wear your cop uniform at a gay parade? Terrible fashion sense regardless...

If you are appealing for sensible fashion at a pride parade then you need to go google all of those words.
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@TheUnderdog
@oromagi
If there are no police at the protest, how will the gay rights protestors protect themselves? 
Well, of course, the cops will be there, that's their job even when idiots make that job harder.  You know who isn't banning police from their pride parade today?  Tel Aviv- where police arrested 50 people for violence against the marchers today and thwarted two terrorist attacks.

Just five years ago off-duty Orlando police officer Adam Gruler armed with a standard issue handgun stood between the Pulse nightclub shooter armed with a SIG Sauer MCX and hundred of fleeing patrons and somehow cornered that murderous fuck in the bathrooms- who knows how many lives he saved- maybe a hundred.

They might need the 2nd amendment.  I would love to see gay rights people also fly a "Don't tread on me" flag while carrying guns to protect from anyone that would beat them up for being gay (even though  the gays shouldn't worry about getting beat up by people).  We would start to see some bipartisanship at protests.
Well, open carry is against the law in NYC and gays have a long history of preferring non-violent resistance in response to violence- everybody should know who Bayard Rustin was.  Still, I appreciate the sentiment and agree that civil rights should always enjoy bipartisan support.


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@oromagi
Well, open carry is against the law in NYC
It shouldn't be.

But carrying guns is non violent.  There are 100 million gun owners in America.  If they were violent, America would have been destroyed by the gun owners.  Yet most gun owners are peaceful, just like most Muslims are peaceful.
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@TheUnderdog
The problem is that America is a country where if you march with a rainbow flag, it is hard to say if the cops will harm you or not.
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@oromagi
Also congrats for 5,000 posts
oromagi
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@Intelligence_06
>@TheUnderdog
The problem is that America is a country where if you march with a rainbow flag, it is hard to say if the cops will harm you or not.
I guess that helps clarify what annoys me about NYC Pride's claim of an "atmosphere of fear and harm."  Yes, I suppose there are still some bad cops that might do some harm but in 2021 it is not "hard to say if the cops will harm you " for being gay.  In fact, homosexuality is legal and popularly accepted now and even if a cop does hate you for being gay, he risks his career by making public show of his bias. 

When I was first going to pride parades, sodomy was a crime and gays were generally perceived as dirty criminals, about on the same level of social acceptability as prostitutes.  Coming out of the closet generally meant getting fired from your job and often renounced by your family.  Cops had a certain mandate from the state and public to harass and harm gay people because gays were the enemy of civil society and American values.  "Pinko-commie-liberal" was the common expression used for all perceived anti-American elements- a gay man was no better than an enemy Russian.  I've been arrested for making out with a guy in my car and I've been fired for being gay.  I've seen cops drive through a crowd of gay men at full speed swinging batons out of window and not caring who got hurt.  When a serial killer was suspected of stabbing 14 gay men in my city in the space of two years (including a co-worker of mine) police couldn't see what the problem was.

But even then, there were also gay cops and few brave cops that marched in pride parades (which were illegal then because the city would not license them) and though there were many cops in town to fear harm from, we didn't exclude our allies from our ranks- in fact, we counted on them and embraced them as essential to our emancipation, which they were.   By my estimation, the threat from police to the LGBTQ community is not a thousandth of what it was back when police participation was most  dearly welcomed and I have a fair amount of contempt for the rainbow snowflakes who can't recognize and celebrate how much better  things are now, in part because of those cops who were brave.

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I like how gay pride parades celebrate gays as just normal people who happen to be homosexual while also wearing assless chaps and dildos and simulating sexual acts on each other in public 
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@TheUnderdog
There is bipartisanship at gay pride events. Please be less of an asshole. Plenty of homosexuals are conservatives.  
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@Wylted
Plenty of homosexuals are conservatives.  
Yeah, but they're all in the closet and don't come to parades, except for Roger Stone.
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@oromagi
I did not know that you are gay
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@oromagi
You do not represent every gay person who has been harmed by the police - the antigay police is not the only reason why they shouldn't march in police at pride - your also missing the entire systemic oppression thing they do. 
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@oromagi
Yeah, but they're all in the closet and don't come to parades, except for Roger Stone.


I think this is just a liberal thing. They go a"I don't like the head of the FBI do I will make people think he is a bad person by calling him gay". It exposes your subconscious thoughts that

GAY equals bad. Nobody that truly sees fruits as equals would think saying somebody is gay, is an insult
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@RatMan

Depends upon how tight it is.

And how one minces.

And a touch of make up maybe.

And a Goucho moustache always looks good.

And maybe a touch of pink.
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@oromagi
@Theweakeredge
In concurrence with what Theweakeredge has said, just because you are comfortable with police at pride doesn't mean that everyone is. Cops are free to participate in pride off-duty. Police have been and continue to be a symbol of oppression for the 2SLGBTQQIAAPN+ community. While I agree that police marching at pride is, in a way, a victory, and I agree not all cops are bad, your experiences as a member of the LGBTQ community are not a trump card. Just because you can move past the centuries of oppression symbolized by the uniform also worn by the enforcers of still existing laws that are discriminatory against the LGBTQ community (mostly trans people) doesn't mean everyone else can, nor should they have to.
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Which Planet do Police come from exactly?

You would soon notice the difference if there were no Police.

The next Pride March would undoubtedly be accompanied with right wing, religious lunatics in cammo, armed to the teeth.

Some people don't quite know when they're well off.

Liberals need Police to enforce liberalism in a liberal society.

Go try organise an Iranian Pride March and see how you get on there.




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@zedvictor4
Those sure are words composing an argument for the necessity of police. The only problem is that I wasn't arguing the police are unnecessary.

Nothing is stopping literally anyone from going to pride already, and I assure you, the presence of police officers wasn't stopping them considering how many times homophobes march against pride parades. If they commit a crime, they will still be persecuted the same as they would be if the crime were committed anywhere else.

Question: who exactly are the people enforcing anti-LGBTQ laws in Iran?
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@oromagi
I did not know that you are gay
how is that even possible?
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@oromagi
You do not represent every gay person who has been harmed by the police - the antigay police is not the only reason why they shouldn't march in police at pride - your also missing the entire systemic oppression thing they do. 
As I said, I see no evidence of systemic homophobia in police depts. anymore.   I do see some evidence of systemic racism in some places- State troopers in Monroe, LA, for example.

If you are saying gays should exclude uniformed cops from pride parades in solidarity with oppressed minorities elsewhere, I strongly disagree.  Excluding the police only heightens tension and creates barriers. 

Many police and their allies are gay and minorities, too.  By calling police unworthy of pride, you make gay cops and minority cops feel unwanted, unwelcome in their community.  I know gay FBI agents and gay Secret Service agents who are sitting out pride, furious at feeling disinvited from family.

The correct response to oppression is NEVER to oppress the oppressors- all you do is increase the amount of oppression in the world.  Revenge by segregation is never the path to justice.
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@oromagi
What?? They are allowed to come - just not in uniform?? "Oppress" That's the word you wanna use for not allowed to come in uniform? Your spewing bullshit now. And systemic oppression by the police is a problem EVERYWHERE in the U.S, its a problem with the system as a WHOLE. And not just for LGBT people. for minorities of all different kinds - in general - the US Police Department has a problem with brutality and corruption - we should be focusing on getting rid of ALL of the police, and replacing it with a much less corrupted department. 
oromagi
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-->@oromagi @Theweakeredge
In concurrence with what Theweakeredge has said, just because you are comfortable with police at pride doesn't mean that everyone is.
I didn't say that I am comfortable with police at pride, I said my level of comfort is entirely irrelevant to the politics of pride.  There's all kinds of crazy bitches at a pride fest that make me feel uncomfortable- always has been.   Like I said earlier, I don't like Roger Stone marching in pride parades but I would never dare ban him or boo him for marching.  I haven't the right and that would corrupt the political value of the exercise.  The point of pride is being who you are, entirely who you are, and demonstrating maximum inclusivity within that context.   Fuck the comfort level of everyone and anyone. Everybody should be welcome at a pride fest.  If you are uncomfortable with the ethos of pride, then you are the one who should be staying home.

Cops are free to participate in pride off-duty.
No they aren't.  Cops are being told they  can only participate if they put unapproved aspects of their identity into the closet.  The closet is the opposite of freedom. Pride parades should know better than other venue in the world the real harm of forcing people back into the closet.

Police have been and continue to be a symbol of oppression for the 2SLGBTQQIAAPN+ community.
Like I said, as a victim of that oppression and a witness to it I am here to tell you that it is better today than it has ever been before- why punish police for making such substantial improvements?  Why punish the cops who embrace pride for the sins of the rapidly shrinking minority who don't?  It is 100% counter-productive.

While I agree that police marching at pride is, in a way, a victory, and I agree not all cops are bad, your experiences as a member of the LGBTQ community are not a trump card. Just because you can move past the centuries of oppression symbolized by the uniform also worn by the enforcers of still existing laws that are discriminatory against the LGBTQ community (mostly trans people) doesn't mean everyone else can, nor should they have to.
Hell, yes, it does.  That is literally the heart of tolerance, sufferance, and liberalism.  That is the American mission in a nutshell. 

You can't fix discrimination by counter-discrimination.

You can't promote tolerance by practicing intolerance. 

If queers can't figure out what love thy neighbor means and welcome everybody as an example to all, than we have no business asking others to figure it out to our benefit.
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@Theweakeredge
-->@oromagi
What?? They are allowed to come - just not in uniform?? "Oppress" That's the word you wanna use for not allowed to come in uniform? Your spewing bullshit now.
Yes, oppression is the correct word for forcing people into the closet,  for telling queer and allied cops they should be ashamed of the job they do and the uniform they wear and they should hide from their gay family on the day they are supposed to show people who they are.  Yes, goddamn it, that is fucking oppression and the queer community needs to pull their head out of their ass on this one.

And systemic oppression by the police is a problem EVERYWHERE in the U.S, its a problem with the system as a WHOLE. And not just for LGBT people. for minorities of all different kinds - in general - the US Police Department has a problem with brutality and corruption - we should be focusing on getting rid of ALL of the police, and replacing it with a much less corrupted department. 
That is political posing without a shred of common sense or thinking.   When the rule of law is gone, the mob always comes for the faggots first.  The police enforce that rule of law.  When you get rid of the police, you don't get some utopian emancipation, you get the mob or you get soldiers- those are the only choices when the police are gone and neither is kinder to queers than the cops- study your history.  

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@oromagi
No?? They are allowed to be out of the closet - and yes- they should be ashamed for being a police officer and contributing to the systemic oppression - I don't think you understand what "oppressed" means. Telling imperialist that invaded a nation and pillaged their lands that they should be ashamed IS the right thing to do, and that goes the same for the people who let them do that - encouraged and supported those pillagers. 

Also, and I hate to use this kind of stuff, but you are being a moron. I never said that "Mob law", I'm saying we need to rebuild a system to take the police's job to do the same thing - it's extremely neccessary - the fact that you don't believe its possible literally means nothing to me, you've made assertions and nothing else. The police are corrupt from their roots, and are one of the most corrupt departments on the face of the planet - you have to pull from the roots to get 'em out, then replace them with something that actually helps increase decrease crime.

Cuz' ya know-  more police per capita doesn't actually decrease crime - not according to the numbers in America. 
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@oromagi
Re your OP:  Well said. 
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@Nyxified
Homophobe, heterophobe.

Intolerance for sure.


A. Go ask.
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@oromagi
I didn't say that I am comfortable with police at pride, I said my level of comfort is entirely irrelevant to the politics of pride.
What I meant to say was something more like "in support of cops participation in pride." as opposed to comfortable. I apologize for the poor wording on my part, and I agree with you when you say that a significant part of pride is in disregarding the comfort of people to provide a space people can be themselves. Even though I am LGBTQ myself, nobody has ever really put this into context or as eloquently as you go on to do in your post, so I'd like to thank you for giving me your perspective here. It's definitely one I'll be trying to remember!

Like I said, as a victim of that oppression and a witness to it I am here to tell you that it is better today than it has ever been before- why punish police for making such substantial improvements?  Why punish the cops who embrace pride for the sins of the rapidly shrinking minority who don't?  It is 100% counter-productive.
I am prepared to acknowledge that I am completely incapable of understanding your experiences from a time significantly less accepting of our community than today, and moreover that I have, in my semi-in-the-closet state with many accepting friends, have not experienced the brunt of oppression in the slightest. But as a victim of the oppression that still exists, I disagree.

What you view as punishing/oppressing police and forcing them back into the identity, I view as a rational response to history.  The function is not to make cops ashamed of wearing a uniform, it's to acknowledge that they wear the same uniform, title, and position as shameful people of the past or the present. There is something very different from preventing participation of certain groups of people based on their sexuality or gender identity and preventing participation of a profession that historically served a great role in the oppression for the very group that the event is for. They aren't equal and equating the two is disingenuous.

I would love to debate if we should change the current system of policing we have in place, but that is for another time. For the sake of argument, even if I accept that the current system of policing and law enforcement is effective and just, I not only don't want but also would not feel safe with the participation of those who have been and continue to be the symbol of oppression, whether in the US or in Canada (where I live), to all marginalized communities who continue to get away with the murder and discrimination of either our own community or of communities who have stood by us in the long fight for equality.



7 days later

TheUnderdog
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@Intelligence_06
The cops won't harm you for flying a rainbow flag.
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@Wylted
I fail to see how I'm being an asshole.