gay and trans people deserve rights

Author: drlebronski

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#31
Lemming
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Ok whether a gay person can or cant be straight then they still deserve rights...
Which rights?

If a company wont let a gay person work there because they are gay the gay person cant do anything about it
"In 1994, the ENDA only made it illegal for employers to discriminate against employees based on their sexual orientation. By 2007, discrimination based on gender identity had been added to the law as well.[17] In 2015, a broader bill, the Equality Act, was introduced in place of this."

if someone goes up to a gay person starts calling him slurs like F*gg*ot and other words that gay person cant do anything about it.
How is this different than normal insults, based on whatever context might, or might not, apply to a person?
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#32
drlebronski
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You win for now i was unaware of the equality act. but you keep asking which rights. The same rights a straight person gets just cause gay people cant marry straight people that doesnt mean they don't get the rights a straight person has.
Calling a gay man a f*gg*t and harrassing them is not just normal insults it can make people more likely to commit suicide its like if a white dude started calling a black guy the n-word for no reason other than to discriminate.
#33
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@drlebronski
Why can't a gay person marry a women?

Gay is as gay does.

Methods of achieving sexual satisfaction are numerous and varied....Who one might or might not be married to is proven to be irrelevant.


Interestingly you're still using old social stereotyping....And still having to justify how people behave sexually.

It strikes me that people are not quite as liberated as they think they are.







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#34
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@zedvictor4
I agree with you That's my bad for using a common stereotype thank you for calling me out on that as i myself am gay and dont want to discriminate by using stereotypes against other like me
#35
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@drlebronski
You win for now i was unaware of the equality act. but you keep asking which rights. The same rights a straight person gets just cause gay people cant marry straight people that doesnt mean they don't get the rights a straight person has. - drlebronski
I'm not 'quite so much trying to win, as figure out what legislation you'd like to push for.
Though I 'am trying to win a little bit, despite myself.
. . .

Here's an example.

Maybe in the future the cost of trans transition will be cheaper, perhaps they'll be more integrated into society in the future, that they aren't a high risk for suicide.
Though my information may be incorrect on those two bits.
But 'currently, it doesn't make sense for someone to join or currently be part of the military, if they have a pre-existing condition, that is going to cost the military money, as well as make the individual nondeployable during transition.
The military 'already screens people, no matter their sexual orientation for suicidal tendencies and history.

Personally I'm also bigoted in the social aspect of it, but perhaps that factor will go the way of "Don't Ask Don't Tell".
By that I mean people will become more accepting, not that we'll demand people not be honest about who they are.
Though I'm still doubtful trans can be easily integrated into the military.

Currently, the military tries to not let fat people join the military, people with one eye, people with medical conditions, people with mental health trouble.

. . .
Addon, I suppose pregnancy with women effects the military, which might hurt my argument some, since female military members do have kids while in the military. I'd have to look into the subject, but just saying I'm aware of it.

Calling a gay man a f*gg*t and harrassing them is not just normal insults it can make people more likely to commit suicide its like if a white dude started calling a black guy the n-word for no reason other than to discriminate. - drlebronski
People often choose insults, that have a connection to the person they are insulting, because they 'want it to hurt.
I'm not saying insulting others is good or ought be socially smiled upon,
But I also don't like taking away people's right to be a**holes.

Personally, I'd rather not by legislation remove people's right to insult others based on what they are.
Personally I'm doubtful I want to legislate that people are not allowed to discriminate against others. (Unsure about that one)

Unless it was a business I owned, then I might expect customers or employees to not use insults, or discriminate while working and purchasing,
But that's a 'personal preference of mine, and freedom, includes freedom to be unpleasant.
In my mind.

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#36
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I mostly agree with you.
#37
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@drlebronski
Gay and trans people are valid and deserve the same rights as any other american
- The incestuous, the epolygamous & the pedosexuals & zoosexuals deserve the same rights as any other American too.

#38
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@Yassine
- The incestuous, the epolygamous & the pedosexuals & zoosexuals deserve the same rights as any other American too.
Well, maybe not the 'same rights.
I would like that they have 'some 'sort of rights though.
#39
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@Lemming
Well, maybe not the 'same rights.
I would like that they have 'some 'sort of rights though.
- Are you supporting discrimination? 

#40
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@Yassine
Yes.
Since I hold that people are different, by what they are, what actions they take, how society views certain states of being or action.
Discrimination occurs.
#41
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@Lemming
Yes.
Since I hold that people are different, by what they are, what actions they take, how society views certain states of being or action.
Discrimination occurs.
- So you don't believe in equal rights for homosexuals & transexuals?

#42
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@Yassine
So you don't believe in equal rights for homosexuals & transexuals? - Yassine
I don't hold for equal rights between myself and my 2nd brother, as he's stolen from our house before.
So he's supervised when visiting, while trusted family members are not supervised.
Depends on context and specifics.
#43
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@Lemming
I don't hold for equal rights between myself and my 2nd brother, as he's stolen from our house before.
So he's supervised when visiting, while trusted family members are not supervised.
Depends on context and specifics.
- This does not answer the question. Do you not support equal rights for homosexuals & transexuals? To be accorded the same rights heterosexuals accorded.

#44
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@Yassine
I think that differences between individuals, whether 'what they are, or actions taken.
Results in differences in how they are perceived, acted towards, what they are abled by law or institution to 'do.

Do you not support equal rights for homosexuals & transexuals?
Is too broad a question for my liking, though I may be overthinking it.
#45
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@Lemming
I think that differences between individuals, whether 'what they are, or actions taken.
Results in differences in how they are perceived, acted towards, what they are abled by law or institution to 'do.
- So you don't believe in Equality?

Is too broad a question for my liking, though I may be overthinking it.-
- What do you believe in regarding homosexuals & transexuals?
#46
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@Yassine
- So you don't believe in Equality? - Yassine
Depends what one means by equality.
Hence when drlebronski posted "Gay and trans people are valid and deserve the same rights as any other american"
I asked him which rights in particular?

- What do you believe in regarding homosexuals & transexuals? - Yassine
If some guy or girl walked up to me and said he was gay, I'd say okay, and not think much of it.

If some guy or girl walked up to me and said they were transexual, I'd say okay, and not think much of it, Except maybe make a note, to to not be attracted to them. Because of my own preferences in other living people.

If someone who was gay wanted to join the military, I'd probably just say okay.

If someone who wanted to undergo transsexual surgery, wanted to join the military, I'd probably say, that it's a bad fit.

If someone who was gay ran for mayor, I'd want to know their platform.
If someone who was transsexual ran for mayor, I'd want to know their platform. Though I'd still think, transsexual? Well that's odd.

If someone claimed their kid was transsexual, but the kid didn't have any odd genetics.
I'd probably say NO, wait until they're 18, then they can make such a decision.
#47
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@Lemming
Depends what one means by equality.
Hence when drlebronski posted "Gay and trans people are valid and deserve the same rights as any other american"
I asked him which rights in particular?
- Egalitarianism = equality before the law.

If some guy or girl walked up to me and said he was gay, I'd say okay, and not think much of it.
If some guy or girl walked up to me and said they were transexual, I'd say okay, and not think much of it, Except maybe make a note, to to not be attracted to them. Because of my own preferences in other living people.
If someone who was gay wanted to join the military, I'd probably just say okay.
If someone who wanted to undergo transsexual surgery, wanted to join the military, I'd probably say, that it's a bad fit.
If someone who was gay ran for mayor, I'd want to know their platform.
If someone who was transsexual ran for mayor, I'd want to know their platform.
- These are matter of policy. I'm asking if you support homosexuals & transexuals equality before the law? Such as in terms of gay marriage, trans marriage, gender preference & so on...


#48
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@Yassine
I'm asking if you support homosexuals & transexuals equality before the law? - Yassine
Straight, gay, or trans, we all have a right to a day in court, I imagine.
Are able to own property.
Are able to vote.

gay marriage, trans marriage - Yassine
I'm not sure what to think of the institution of marriage anymore, in modern America.
Is it about a people recognizing a sacred bond, in accordance with their faith and traditions?
Is it about what benefits by law and recognition of two individuals shared rights between each other, by law?
I'm pretty noncommittal on the subject of marriage.

gender preference - Yassine
What do you mean?
#49
Yassine
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@Lemming
Straight, gay, or trans, we all have a right to a day in court, I imagine.
Are able to own property.
Are able to vote.
- Are you pretending to be ignorant or are you avoiding the question?

I'm not sure what to think of the institution of marriage anymore, in modern America.
Is it about a people recognizing a sacred bond, in accordance with their faith and traditions?
Is it about what benefits by law and recognition of two individuals shared rights between each other, by law?
I'm pretty noncommittal on the subject of marriage.
- The question is about equality before the law. Do you believe queer people should have the same rights straight people have?



#50
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@Yassine
- Are you pretending to be ignorant or are you avoiding the question? - Yassine
Partly 'genuine ignorance, partly avoiding the question, partly disagreeing with the question itself.

- The question is about equality before the law. Do you believe queer people should have the same rights straight people have? - Yassine
If you have a specific law or example, I'll 'try to answer it.
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#51
drlebronski
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@Lemming
yes or no just answer the question
#52
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@drlebronski
Never!
Muhahaha,
Well, least not 'this moment.

Heh, seriously though, ask me if I think gays or transsexuals ought be able to vote in America, I suppose I'd say yes.

That fact that you bring up the topic,
gay and trans people deserve rights - drlebronski
'Implies to me, that you think there are rights they do not have, thus I ask 'what rights are missing?
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#53
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@Lemming
Please do not avoid the question yes, or no it's that simple do you think they deserve equal rights do not change the subject.
#54
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@drlebronski
Give a 'specific right, that you want to know whether I think gay and trans ought have, and I'll try to answer.
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#55
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@Lemming
No im not going to start naming every right you tell me what rights do you think they shouldnt have you are continuing to avoid the question
#56
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@drlebronski
'You brought up the topic, implying you have a complaint.
Do you not have a specific complaint in mind?
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#57
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@Lemming
I have a complaint about people who oppress gay and trans people. Since you still avoid the question im now going to assume that no you dont think they deserve equal rights
#58
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@drlebronski
I have a complaint about people who oppress gay and trans people. - drlebronski
That's 'very vague.


Since you still avoid the question im now going to assume that no you dont think they deserve equal rights - drlebronski
'Assume.

In post #23, you said,
 gay people deserve the right to marry - drlebronski
Well, you gave 'one right.
That they 'already currently have in America.

Though really it's semantics, marriage.
Some people insist a pencil is a pen, if they have enough influence in a country, well, then the definition of a pencil, changes to pen.
Marriage is between a single man and a single women, says some people's definition.
Other people have 'different definitions.

In post #30, you said,
If a company wont let a gay person work there because they are gay the gay person cant do anything about it - drlebronski
"In 1994, the ENDA only made it illegal for employers to discriminate against employees based on their sexual orientation. By 2007, discrimination based on gender identity had been added to the law as well.[17] In 2015, a broader bill, the Equality Act, was introduced in place of this."

In post #30, you said,
if someone goes up to a gay person starts calling him slurs like F*gg*ot and other words that gay person cant do anything about it. - drlebronski
Too bad, I say. People get insulted in life.

In post #35, I gave my opinion that transsexuals ought not be accepted into the military currently.
Due to the current difficulty of integration, deployment, medical costs.
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#59
drlebronski
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So in other words no you dont think they deserve equal rights
#60
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@drlebronski
I didn't say that.

I refer you to my post #22

Please be specific.
Differences in people, results in different rights.

Let's suppose you said,
Dwarfs are valid and deserve the same rights as any other American.
Well, no they don't.
If they're too short to ride a carnival ride, they aren't allowed to ride it.

Let's suppose you said,
People with color blindness are valid and deserve the same rights as any other American.
Well, no they don't.
Certain jobs 'require color vision.

Let's suppose you said,
People with bad eyesight are valid and deserve the same rights as any other American.
Well, no they don't.
You have to pass a vision test, to become a pilot in the American Air Force, as far as I know.

'Which Rights?
Please be specific.

If there's a military war and a draft, do you think women are going to be 'equally represented on the frontlines?

What does it 'mean, to have equal rights?