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@BrotherDThomas
You don't need me Brother. You need to repent of your sins and stop being such a dill. Embrace the Lord Jesus and he will set you free from the past, the present and the future.
The meaning of death
Posts
Total:
233
Ragnar's - comment was simply to say that I wasn't....
Your protector said that no two members in that thread were sharing credentials. He could not bring himself to say you were lying. You, again, are too dense to know he was trying to help you without committing a lie in black and white.
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@ethang5
Hmm some people are pretty dense.
But you shouldn't be too hard on Stevie Blunder. He can' help it. LOL!
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@BrotherDThomas
Lest we forget the blatant ungodly FACT of Tradesecret in recent time in having 5 DIFFERENT GENDERS within their Profile Page as embarrassingly shown in the link herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6594-diversity-of-religious-experience-a-problem-for-monotheists-from-a-polytheist-prospective?page=3&post_number=53
His/her indecision will be down to not remembering which of his personas are male and which are female, is my guess Brother.🤣
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@Stephen
@BrotherDThomas
You can continue your little game. I have stated repeatedly I am a male. That is what I am, it is what I have always been and it will be what I will always be.
The ironic thing is I don't have an issue per se with transgender.
It is both of you - the fake atheist and the fake theist who seem to think it is fun to make fun about genderism.
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@Stephen
@Tradesecret
.
TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and then back to a man, and then went to unknown again, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a LIAR, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, has now changed genders 5 TIMES in their profile page,
YOUR COMICAL QUOTE: "You can continue your little game. I have stated repeatedly I am a male. That is what I am, it is what I have always been and it will be what I will always be."
Dear, Sir, Unknown, you can continue to say over and over and over and over that you are an alleged male, BUT, the DIRECT EVIDENCE states otherwise in your 5 DIFFERENT GENDERS in recent times. See how logic 101 works? Sure you do Bible fool! LOL!
1. Tradesecret as a female:
2. Tradesecret as a male:
3. Tradesecret now as an unknown, huh?
4. Tradesecret changes back into a male once again from an unknown on August 18, 2021:
5. Tradesecret now changes back to “unknown” from a male on August 29, 2021!!!
YOUR UNGODLY QUOTE ONCE AGAIN!!!: "The ironic thing is I don't have an issue per se with transgender."
WTF, there is NO IRONY when you go directly against Jesus' words within the scriptures regarding transgender of His creation you Bible fool ! BLASPHEME!
YOUR STEPPING IN THE PROVERBIAL POO QUOTE AGAIN: "It is both of you - the fake atheist and the fake theist who seem to think it is fun to make fun about genderism."
We're not making fun of "genderism" because it is YOU that keeps running away in what gender you actually represent out of the 5 DIFFERENT genders shown over a recent time in your profile page, get it Bible fool? Huh? Here is a test: what gender are you today out of the 5 that have been shown within your Profile Page? LOL!
Tradesecret, as I have said before, you are an anguished mess within this forum with your assumed refutations to your total and complete Bible ignorance and stupidity, let alone you going directly against Jesus' teachings to no end as I show in my top header when addressing you, and you want to call yourself a Christian?! NOT! ROFLOL!
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@BrotherDThomas
Oh - it looks like I hit a sore point!!!!!
LOL.
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@Tradesecret
.
TRADESECRET, whose gender went from a woman to a man, and then to unknown, and then back to a man, and then went to unknown again, the Debate Runaway on Jesus' true MO, Bible denier of Jesus being the Trinity God in the OT, the runaway to what division of Christianity he/she/unknown follows, the pseudo-christian that has committed the Unpardonable Sin, the number 1 Bible ignorant fool regarding Noah's ark, the pseudo-christian that says kids that curse their parents should be killed, states there is FICTION within the scriptures, and is guilty of Revelation 22:18-19 and 2 Timothy 4:3, AN ADMITTED SEXUAL DEVIANT, and obviously had ungodly Gender Reassignment Surgery, Satanic Bible Rewriter, an embarrassed LIAR of their true gender, and goes against Jesus in not helping the poor, has turned into a HYPOCRITE, and a LIAR, teaches Christianity at Universities in a “blind leading the blind” scenario, and is a False Prophet, says that Jesus is rational when He commits abortions and makes His creation eat their children, and that Jesus is rational when He allows innocent babies to be smashed upon the rocks, has now changed genders 5 TIMES in their profile page,
First thing, as I stated in my post #216, which gender did you represent when you posted the following quote?
YOUR QUOTE OF HAVING A SORE POINT? "Oh - it looks like I hit a sore point!!!!!"
Why would you admit to your situation of having a "sore point?" Since it is relative to my post #216, we can only assume that since I have shown the membership in you having 5 DIFFERENT GENDERS over a recent time period in your vacant Profile Page, therefore you had to reach down into your nether regions to see what gender you actually are on a given day! Therefore, subsequent to this continuous "touching yourself," of which you had better not be pleasing yourself while doing so, you have caused yourself a "sore point down there!"
Dear, the only "sore point" on your behalf is the FACT that you have yet to address your embarrassing 5 GENDERS as shown by Jesus and I in your devoid Profile Page! Why? Scared to add more proverbial egg upon your face in front of the membership, AGAIN? LOL!
Tradesecret, just keep doing what you you do best, and that is RUNNING AWAY from me making you the Bible stupid pseudo-christian fool, praise Jesus!
NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN THAT IS EMBARRASSED LIKE TRADESECRET IS ABOUT THEIR TRUE MODUS OPERANDI WILL BE ... ?
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@BrotherDThomas
It's your sore point Brother.
Not mine. I am not the one running away from my past of being hurt by the church and its clergy or leaders. This is why you are so fixated not just on sexual gender and hating the God of the Bible, but also on "running away".
The past is catching up with you though. I suggest you let it catch up - so that you can deal with it. Now is the time. Don't let your past continue to eat you alive.
Stop running. Stop hiding in false personas. Stop blocking out the good things in this world. Stop fighting against the truth. Embrace it. And deal with it before it destroys you completely.
PM if you need.
This could have been an excellent topic addressing the eternity of spirit, the connection of spirit and god, and instead we have to swim through the fecal matter that is atheism. What a waste of time and space.
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think you make a fair point.
Would you like to discuss this further. I would be pleased to.
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@Tradesecret
I am more than willing to I certainly believe spirit is eternal. I don't think my definition of what God would be the same as yours. When I say God I don't mean like the God of Abraham I mean Infinite Intelligence, the creator of all things. The gods to me are merely evolved being that have a knowledge of dimensions that we humans don't have. They are more in tune with how spirit works. Death is just when the body ceases to function. Spirit is continual and eternal when the Bible says I knew you before you were formed that means that our spirit existed before it goes into our body and obviously if God talks about an afterlife it exists after we leave our body. I certainly believe there are lower vibration beings and higher vibration beings and where you're at when you die can determine where you end up in an afterlife I certainly don't believe in hell and punishment. I also believe in reincarnation. Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn. One can't learn if you're in hell being punished so I don't believe that exists. It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections. You don't just go to a place of torture because you didn't believe in gods you end up in a place like that based on your own behavior toward others. You can learn and grow out of that place.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Atheism addresses that which you do not want addressed.
If rational argument isn't your objective on a DEBATING website....Then ditch the technology and go hug a tree.
Though true.....Discussions that involve certain people, rapidly exceed the rational and inevitably descend into chaos.....Theists and atheists alike.
Nonetheless Poly.....Rather than just saying things like the "eternity of spirit".....Why not actually try and explain what it is you are saying?
The fact is that theism is full of meaningless and unexplained soundbites, such as "the eternity of spirit" and the "connection of spirit and god".
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@Polytheist-Witch
I am more than willing to I certainly believe spirit is eternal.
What do you mean by spirit?
I don't think my definition of what God would be the same as yours.
ok.
When I say God I don't mean like the God of Abraham I mean Infinite Intelligence, the creator of all things.
Is Infinite Intelligence a thing or a person or something else? Would you care to elaborate?
The gods to me are merely evolved being that have a knowledge of dimensions that we humans don't have.
Why do you think this? Do you have any evidence of it? How can you know that they have evolved a deeper knowledge of dimensions than us? I am curious.
They are more in tune with how spirit works.
Ok. How do you know this?
Death is just when the body ceases to function.
That is certainly one definition.
Spirit is continual and eternal when the Bible says I knew you before you were formed that means that our spirit existed before it goes into our body and obviously if God talks about an afterlife it exists after we leave our body.
Ok. So I assume you take this part of the bible to be correct. Is it the only part or are other parts correct as well? And how do you determine which ones are correct and which ones are not? For the record, I am not convinced the bible says the Spirit is eternal. You are correct in that it talks about God knowing us before we were formed. But it also talks about death and the second death. John 3:16 clearly talks about life eternal and death as two opposites. Death seems to be non-eternal.
I certainly believe there are lower vibration beings and higher vibration beings and where you're at when you die can determine where you end up in an afterlife I certainly don't believe in hell and punishment.
I don't understand this vibration thing. Can you explain that further? I do believe in Hell and punishment. For me it makes sense that judgement occurs in the afterlife if it is not attained in the real world.
I also believe in reincarnation.
Ok.
Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn.
Is that like Karma? How do you distinguish it from Karma, realizing of course that Hindu philosophy teaches that everything is illusion.
One can't learn if you're in hell being punished so I don't believe that exists.
I would think that Hell is not about learning but about punishment. Surely that is the sole purpose of such a destination and for some people who refuse to learn - that seems quite an appropriate place.
It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections.
Eternal Hell is premised partly upon the Greek idea that the Spirit is eternal. Although it is true that many religions don't have Hell, it is perhaps because they have a different system of punishment. I also think that the OT does talk about Hell. But you can have your own beliefs.
You don't just go to a place of torture because you didn't believe in gods you end up in a place like that based on your own behavior toward others. You can learn and grow out of that place.
Hell is not a place to learn. Hell is a place of punishment for rejecting God. If torture is part of that - then that is part of the punishment, It is not about belief or non-belief in God - it is about Treason on an eternal scale.
Thanks for your thoughts. I look forward to further discussion with you.
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@Tradesecret
I am more than willing to I certainly believe spirit is eternal.What do you mean by spirit?
The life force that is individual to all things.
When I say God I don't mean like the God of Abraham I mean Infinite Intelligence, the creator of all things.Is Infinite Intelligence a thing or a person or something else? Would you care to elaborate?
The origin of all live and all things. The creative living force in the universe.
The gods to me are merely evolved being that have a knowledge of dimensions that we humans don't have.Why do you think this? Do you have any evidence of it? How can you know that they have evolved a deeper knowledge of dimensions than us? I am curious.
Most myths do not have the gods creating the universe but their area of the universe. They are able to contact us on Earth care of the dead. They are also able to die.
They are more in tune with how spirit works.Ok. How do you know this?
See above. They are creators of worlds and underworlds.
Spirit is continual and eternal when the Bible says I knew you before you were formed that means that our spirit existed before it goes into our body and obviously if God talks about an afterlife it exists after we leave our body.Ok. So I assume you take this part of the bible to be correct. Is it the only part or are other parts correct as well? And how do you determine which ones are correct and which ones are not? For the record, I am not convinced the bible says the Spirit is eternal. You are correct in that it talks about God knowing us before we were formed. But it also talks about death and the second death. John 3:16 clearly talks about life eternal and death as two opposites. Death seems to be non-eternal.
I think most religious text and religions have some truth in them even though man has fked them up. The New Testament is worse then most others. I don't believe spirit ever ceases to exist. It just changes form.
I certainly believe there are lower vibration beings and higher vibration beings and where you're at when you die can determine where you end up in an afterlife I certainly don't believe in hell and punishment.I don't understand this vibration thing. Can you explain that further? I do believe in Hell and punishment. For me it makes sense that judgement occurs in the afterlife if it is not attained in the real world.
Spirit has a vibration to it. All living things do. It's starts at the atomic level. I don't believe we were created to be punished.
Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn.Is that like Karma? How do you distinguish it from Karma, realizing of course that Hindu philosophy teaches that everything is illusion.
Karma is more about reward and punishment. I am taking about learning universal truths.
One can't learn if you're in hell being punished so I don't believe that exists.I would think that Hell is not about learning but about punishment. Surely that is the sole purpose of such a destination and for some people who refuse to learn - that seems quite an appropriate place.
I don't believe we were created to be punished. I think having kids to just torcher them is sick. What higher being would do that if we don't? You wouldn't bring a child into the world and lock it up forever because you didn't teach it right. Or because they made a mistake. Not to mention we are here to learn lessons. Some errors on our part are a part of experiencing the consequences of hurting ourselves or others.
It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections.Eternal Hell is premised partly upon the Greek idea that the Spirit is eternal. Although it is true that many religions don't have Hell, it is perhaps because they have a different system of punishment. I also think that the OT does talk about Hell. But you can have your own beliefs.
If Christianity is based on the God of Abraham then why is the concepts of the Greek afterlife incorporated at all?
You don't just go to a place of torture because you didn't believe in gods you end up in a place like that based on your own behavior toward others. You can learn and grow out of that place.Hell is not a place to learn. Hell is a place of punishment for rejecting God. If torture is part of that - then that is part of the punishment, It is not about belief or non-belief in God - it is about Treason on an eternal scale.
I don't believe the creator punishes anyone for eternity. There is no natural law of punishment. It's goes against the law of love. Which is the ultimate lesson. Love God and your neighbor. One can expect cause and effect but nothing in cause and effect implies punishment but merely consequence. A lion not making a kill is not punished by being hungry is it a consequence of not eating. We do have a period where once we die and realize our sins against others ( and in that way God) then our guilt keeps us from moving on. Once that guilt is processed we can being to grow and move closer to God.
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@Polytheist-Witch
@Tradesecret
I know very little about the bible but i don't think hell was ever explicitly mentioned in it.
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@drlebronski
Hell gets quite a few mentions in the NT. Jesus speaks of Hell more than anyone else does.
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@Polytheist-Witch
The life force that is individual to all things.
When you mean all things - do you mean living things - like animals and birds and fish? Would you also include trees and shrubs etc.? And what about rocks and earth and fire? Would you also possibly include angels and demons etc?
The origin of all live and all things. The creative living force in the universe.
So for you God is the creator of life or is he / she the life? Do you distinguish between God and everything else? Or is god part and parcel of everything?
Most myths do not have the gods creating the universe but their area of the universe. They are able to contact us on Earth care of the dead. They are also able to die.
Ok. But that is the distinguishing feature of the God of the Bible. The creator of all things. Not just a tribal god or deity. The God of the bible cannot die either because he is the creator of life.
I think most religious text and religions have some truth in them even though man has fked them up. The New Testament is worse then most others. I don't believe spirit ever ceases to exist. It just changes form.
Ok. So why is the verses about life and death in the NT more believable than other parts? You must surely have a means of deciding which is one is more stuffed up than the others? I happen to think the NT is excellent. And that the Bible, namely the OT and the NT are more reliable than every other book. The bible talks about spirit being mortal and that immortality is conditional.
Spirit has a vibration to it. All living things do. It's starts at the atomic level. I don't believe we were created to be punished.
Yes that is still not making much sense to me. What do you mean a vibration? I don't think humans were created to be punished either. Yet, that does not mean that they are not or cannot be punished. In life people are punished - this is a fact. It also does not mean that they cannot do stuff which warrants their punishment.
Until you've reached a certain level of vibration you have to come back and learn.Is that like Karma? How do you distinguish it from Karma, realizing of course that Hindu philosophy teaches that everything is illusion.Karma is more about reward and punishment. I am taking about learning universal truths.
Interesting. I would agree with you about Karma. I am not sure what you mean by universal truths. Where are these and who made them and how do we find out about them?
I don't believe we were created to be punished. I think having kids to just torcher them is sick. What higher being would do that if we don't? You wouldn't bring a child into the world and lock it up forever because you didn't teach it right. Or because they made a mistake. Not to mention we are here to learn lessons. Some errors on our part are a part of experiencing the consequences of hurting ourselves or others.
Yes. I answered above. No one said anything about having kids to torture them. I don't think God creates people just to punish them. Yet, if my child deserved punishment I would give it to them. Kids intentionally do bad things. Sometimes they will not learn. Some people do not want to learn. They think they know it all.
It's also not in the Old Testament and very few other religions have a hell that's just a place of punishment most faiths might have a purgatory or at least a afterlife split into sections.Eternal Hell is premised partly upon the Greek idea that the Spirit is eternal. Although it is true that many religions don't have Hell, it is perhaps because they have a different system of punishment. I also think that the OT does talk about Hell. But you can have your own beliefs.If Christianity is based on the God of Abraham then why is the concepts of the Greek afterlife incorporated at all?
I think some of Christianity today has been influenced by Greek thinking. Possibly through Augustine. Hell is not Greek. Christianity does not incorporate the Greek afterlife? Christians do not as a general rule believe in immortal spirits. Yes many do. But not all. It is the Greek view on humanity that it has an immortal spirit. Christians hold to the view that immortality - is conditional. It is not automatic.
I don't believe the creator punishes anyone for eternity. There is no natural law of punishment. It's goes against the law of love. Which is the ultimate lesson. Love God and your neighbor. One can expect cause and effect but nothing in cause and effect implies punishment but merely consequence. A lion not making a kill is not punished by being hungry is it a consequence of not eating. We do have a period where once we die and realize our sins against others ( and in that way God) then our guilt keeps us from moving on. Once that guilt is processed we can being to grow and move closer to God.
Thanks for your responses. This is really interesting. I am of the view that Satan will be punished for ever. What is natural law? Surely you have heard of a thing called tough love. Love sometimes is demonstrated by removing the enemy. The ultimate lesson is love? Where do you get that idea? I think worship is the ultimate thing to do. I really find it interesting how much you are opposed to the concept of punishment. Of course there are natural consequences to things. Not all consequences are punishments. But judgment is what judges do. And then the police come and place a person in punishment. I agree there is a difference between punishment and discipline. The first is an end. The second is a means. But sometimes - the journey has to come to an end. The destination is always beckoning. For example, Hitler was not needing discipline or to learn. Because of his evil, the only thing left was punishment. That he took his life, meant he escaped temporal punishment - yet he sent himself into the eternal judgment room of God. And my view is that God's judgment on Hitler was deserved.
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@Tradesecret
When you mean all things - do you mean living things - like animals and birds and fish? Would you also include trees and shrubs etc.? And what about rocks and earth and fire? Would you also possibly include angels and demons etc?
All things. People, beings, rocks, elements, every atom in the universe.
So for you God is the creator of life or is he / she the life? Do you distinguish between God and everything else? Or is god part and parcel of everything?
Yes but I use gods to mean beings like Odin or the God of Abraham. Infinite Intelligence is what I would call the creator of all things. No not really we are all part of that force.
Ok. But that is the distinguishing feature of the God of the Bible. The creator of all things. Not just a tribal god or deity. The God of the bible cannot die either because he is the creator of life.
He says he is but for me he is the tribal god of the Jews who is a creation god for that pantheon. Just like Odin is a creation god in Heathenism and Prometheus in Hellenistic Polytheism. Not all gods die. Most use magic to avoid it.
Ok. So why is the verses about life and death in the NT more believable than other parts? You must surely have a means of deciding which is one is more stuffed up than the others? I happen to think the NT is excellent. And that the Bible, namely the OT and the NT are more reliable than every other book. The bible talks about spirit being mortal and that immortality is conditional.
I think the New Testament is almost all rubbish. Jesus was a Buddha type figure if he lived at all and is not a mix of people from the time.
Interesting. I would agree with you about Karma. I am not sure what you mean by universal truths. Where are these and who made them and how do we find out about them?
Infinite Intelligence created everything. Some are natural laws and some we know when in in spirit form. We loose a lot while in human form with an ego.
Thanks for your responses. This is really interesting. I am of the view that Satan will be punished for ever. What is natural law? Surely you have heard of a thing called tough love. Love sometimes is demonstrated by removing the enemy. The ultimate lesson is love? Where do you get that idea? I think worship is the ultimate thing to do. I really find it interesting how much you are opposed to the concept of punishment. Of course there are natural consequences to things. Not all consequences are punishments. But judgment is what judges do. And then the police come and place a person in punishment. I agree there is a difference between punishment and discipline. The first is an end. The second is a means. But sometimes - the journey has to come to an end. The destination is always beckoning. For example, Hitler was not needing discipline or to learn. Because of his evil, the only thing left was punishment. That he took his life, meant he escaped temporal punishment - yet he sent himself into the eternal judgment room of God. And my view is that God's judgment on Hitler was deserved.
https://passionplacement.com/7-natural-laws-fundamentals-to-unlock-growth-in-business-life/ I have seen sources with way more but these are the most commonly discussed. The only enemy is ego. There is no universal boogey man waiting to tear you down. Working with a god may be a matter of worship but the ultimate goal for us is to give love to others. Punishment achieves little on a eternity time frame. Again why create a human, set it up to fail then punish it for all eternity cause it doesn't get the rules. It makes God look petty, shallow and sadistic. Judges also protect victims, grant restitution and decide who is correct within the laws. You see judgement as something only the evil or bad get. The good are judged too. What if Hitler was sent to teach a lesson to all humanity? Did he has to endure some punishment in the afterlife, sure. Will he every progress in the afterlife, no idea. Either one of use could be right or wrong. Without proof we can only live our own truth and not judge others for theirs. Unless theirs hurts others. If you are hurting others using religion it's hard to give that religion any credit for authenticity.
11 days later
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@Polytheist-Witch
When you mean all things - do you mean living things - like animals and birds and fish? Would you also include trees and shrubs etc.? And what about rocks and earth and fire? Would you also possibly include angels and demons etc?All things. People, beings, rocks, elements, every atom in the universe.
So it sounds like you are pantheistic. God is everything and everything is god.
So for you God is the creator of life or is he / she the life? Do you distinguish between God and everything else? Or is god part and parcel of everything?Yes but I use gods to mean beings like Odin or the God of Abraham. Infinite Intelligence is what I would call the creator of all things. No not really we are all part of that force.
Yes, Pantheism then. Sort of Hindu, Budhha and new age all wrapped into one.
Ok. But that is the distinguishing feature of the God of the Bible. The creator of all things. Not just a tribal god or deity. The God of the bible cannot die either because he is the creator of life.He says he is but for me he is the tribal god of the Jews who is a creation god for that pantheon. Just like Odin is a creation god in Heathenism and Prometheus in Hellenistic Polytheism. Not all gods die. Most use magic to avoid it.
Ok. so which gods don't die. And what is this magic you are talking about?
Ok. So why is the verses about life and death in the NT more believable than other parts? You must surely have a means of deciding which is one is more stuffed up than the others? I happen to think the NT is excellent. And that the Bible, namely the OT and the NT are more reliable than every other book. The bible talks about spirit being mortal and that immortality is conditional.I think the New Testament is almost all rubbish. Jesus was a Buddha type figure if he lived at all and is not a mix of people from the time.
Why do you think that? What are you measuring it against to come to such a conclusion? How is Jesus a Buddha type? I take the view that Jesus and Buddha are just about opposites in everything they did and taught. Historians by consensus agree Jesus lived.
Interesting. I would agree with you about Karma. I am not sure what you mean by universal truths. Where are these and who made them and how do we find out about them?Infinite Intelligence created everything. Some are natural laws and some we know when in in spirit form. We loose a lot while in human form with an ego.
What is infinite intelligence? Is it god? What is a natural law? How do you know we loose a lot in human form? Do you sometimes leave your human form?
Thanks for your responses. This is really interesting. I am of the view that Satan will be punished for ever. What is natural law? Surely you have heard of a thing called tough love. Love sometimes is demonstrated by removing the enemy. The ultimate lesson is love? Where do you get that idea? I think worship is the ultimate thing to do. I really find it interesting how much you are opposed to the concept of punishment. Of course there are natural consequences to things. Not all consequences are punishments. But judgment is what judges do. And then the police come and place a person in punishment. I agree there is a difference between punishment and discipline. The first is an end. The second is a means. But sometimes - the journey has to come to an end. The destination is always beckoning. For example, Hitler was not needing discipline or to learn. Because of his evil, the only thing left was punishment. That he took his life, meant he escaped temporal punishment - yet he sent himself into the eternal judgment room of God. And my view is that God's judgment on Hitler was deserved.https://passionplacement.com/7-natural-laws-fundamentals-to-unlock-growth-in-business-life/ I have seen sources with way more but these are the most commonly discussed. The only enemy is ego. There is no universal boogey man waiting to tear you down. Working with a god may be a matter of worship but the ultimate goal for us is to give love to others. Punishment achieves little on a eternity time frame. Again why create a human, set it up to fail then punish it for all eternity cause it doesn't get the rules. It makes God look petty, shallow and sadistic. Judges also protect victims, grant restitution and decide who is correct within the laws. You see judgement as something only the evil or bad get. The good are judged too. What if Hitler was sent to teach a lesson to all humanity? Did he has to endure some punishment in the afterlife, sure. Will he every progress in the afterlife, no idea. Either one of use could be right or wrong. Without proof we can only live our own truth and not judge others for theirs. Unless theirs hurts others. If you are hurting others using religion it's hard to give that religion any credit for authenticity.
The bible does not say God made a human - then set it up to fail. I don't think that either. And I think it is a STRAWMAN to say it is. Our world works with both carrots and sticks. Punishment is part of any just system that wants justice. To remove punishment is to remove justice. I don't see judgment as only evil. I am a lawyer. I often want judgment that says my client is innocent. And this happens and it is a good judgment.
I think saying Hitler was sent to teach a lesson implies that something sent him. Who would send Hitler to kill so many people as a way of teaching? That sounds vindictive and arbitrary. Not to mention cruel and mean. If that is you infinite intelligence, then I could not in good faith worship such a thing.
You are correct. both of us can't be right. both of us could be wrong. Yet if i am wrong, then the worst that can happen - is I end up in heaven. On the other hand, you, if you are wrong, then you have a nasty future ahead of you. Either way, I cannot lose. You on the other hand - better be right for your sake.
I think saying Hitler was sent to teach a lesson implies that something sent him. Who would send Hitler to kill so many people as a way of teaching? That sounds vindictive and arbitrary. Not to mention cruel and mean. If that is you infinite intelligence, then I could not in good faith worship such a thing
Says a guy ok with the flood and hell. Guess when your exempt cause it's your god it's ok.
You are correct. both of us can't be right. both of us could be wrong. Yet if i am wrong, then the worst that can happen - is I end up in heaven. On the other hand, you, if you are wrong, then you have a nasty future ahead of you. Either way, I cannot lose. You on the other hand - better be right for your sake.
I don't have to threaten people in my belief. Makes you wonder why you need to in yours.
337 days later
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@Tradesecret
Some seem confused about the meaning of death preferring it to mean other than the ordinary meanings associated with the term.Physical death- when the body no longer has breath and decays.Spiritual death - when the spiritual relationship between God and man is severed.Covenantal death - when the breach of the covenant brings the sanction of covenantal death within the limitations of the specific institution.Some try and introduce another kind of death associated with ritual with higher orders with a secret society.Please explain the different types of death you understand and the basis of this understanding.
Types of deaths are natural, accident, suicide, homicide, undetermined, and pending. The manner of death is determined by the medical examiner.
The Bible defines 7 types of deaths.
Spiritual Death (separation from God in time Gen. 2:16-17; Eph. 2:1).
The Second Death (the perpetuation of spiritual death into eternity; Rev. 20:12-15).
Physical Death (the separation of the soul from the body; Eccl. 12:7; 2 Cor. 5:8).
Sexual Death (the inability to procreate; Rom. 4:19-21).
Operational Death (the inability to produce divine good; James 2:26).
Positional Death: in Adam (Rom. 5:12; 1 Cor. 15:22), and in Christ (Rom. 6:8; 1 Cor. 15:22; Col. 3:3).
Carnal Death (this is the believer out of fellowship with God, operating according to his Sinful Nature; Rom. 8:6, 13; James 1:14-15; Rev. 3:1; Luke 15:24, 32).
Death by crucifixion is not listed because that was used to put away Jesus.